More Quantas info

[Simpo Two]

www.avherald.com/h?article=43309c6d/0007&opt=0

[Flintstone]

<pedant mode>


Psssst! It's QANTAS, no 'u'. Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Service (Ltd).

[mrmaggit]

Flintstone said:

<pedant mode>


Psssst! It's QANTAS, no 'u'. Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Service (Ltd).

Or "Queers And Nymphomaniacs Trained As Stewards".

[Ross1988]

Not finished reading the article, but what is degraded mode and also what is alternate mode? What effect does this have on the engines?

[ktcanuck]

Ross1988 said:

Not finished reading the article, but what is degraded mode and also what is alternate mode? What effect does this have on the engines?

If you Google the terms you will find good explanations.

[Flintstone]

mrmaggit said:

Flintstone said:

<pedant mode>


Psssst! It's QANTAS, no 'u'. Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Service (Ltd).

Or "Queers And Nymphomaniacs Trained As Stewards".

Queers (for want of a better word) and Nancies

Story goes that a chap who was erm, good with colours, got the job of Chief Mince back in the early nineties and the rest is history.

Edited by Flintstone on Wednesday 8th December 16:16

[Olf]

Basically that aeroplane was a gnats cock away from taking a nose dive. All due respect to the crew.

[Ross1988]

Olf said:

Basically that aeroplane was a gnats cock away from taking a nose dive. All due respect to the crew.

This was how I interpreted it as, Just glad no one was hurt!

[FourWheelDrift]

And here, interviews with the pilots and photos taken in the cockpit at the time.

http://www.aerosocietychannel.com/aerospace-insigh...

[scarebus]

FourWheelDrift said:

And here, interviews with the pilots and photos taken in the cockpit at the time.

http://www.aerosocietychannel.com/aerospace-insigh...

A very good read, thank you...

[TimJMS]

I see it's been corrected. Qantas A380.

[thinfourth2]

Question

Do Jet engines have a hi vibration trip?

As the article talks about the vibration increasing in steam turbine world when your vibs go above a certain level the turbine stops. but in shipping you can stop and float planes don't float they make like a brick. So is there circumstance where the engine will shutdown automatically or will it run to destruction?

[Simpo Two]

This is an interesting bit: 'But at the end of the day common sense and airmanship takes over. We didn’t blindly follow the ECAMs. We looked at each one individually, analysed it, and either rejected it or actioned it as we thought we should. From a training point of view it doesn’t matter what aeroplane you are flying airmanship has to take over. In fact, Airbus has some golden rules which we all adhered to on the day – aviate, navigate and communicate – in that order.'

Humans will make mistakes but a computer can kill you with logic.

[Olf]

thinfourth2 said:

Question

Do Jet engines have a hi vibration trip?

As the article talks about the vibration increasing in steam turbine world when your vibs go above a certain level the turbine stops. but in shipping you can stop and float planes don't float they make like a brick. So is there circumstance where the engine will shutdown automatically or will it run to destruction?

They would not have a trip in the traditional sense in that high vibration detection (even with voting) would not allow the aircraft control systems to shut the engine down. Shut down of engines has to remain the pilots decision.

[thinfourth2]

Olf said:

thinfourth2 said:

Question

Do Jet engines have a hi vibration trip?

As the article talks about the vibration increasing in steam turbine world when your vibs go above a certain level the turbine stops. but in shipping you can stop and float planes don't float they make like a brick. So is there circumstance where the engine will shutdown automatically or will it run to destruction?

They would not have a trip in the traditional sense in that high vibration detection (even with voting) would not allow the aircraft control systems to shut the engine down. Shut down of engines has to remain the pilots decision.

I can see why the pilot should have the call on to shut down or not, but surely if it sops a compressor wheel popping out of the engine to say hello i would of thought it might safer to trip the engine if there is 3 others still going.

[Olf]

thinfourth2 said:

Olf said:

thinfourth2 said:

Question

Do Jet engines have a hi vibration trip?

As the article talks about the vibration increasing in steam turbine world when your vibs go above a certain level the turbine stops. but in shipping you can stop and float planes don't float they make like a brick. So is there circumstance where the engine will shutdown automatically or will it run to destruction?

They would not have a trip in the traditional sense in that high vibration detection (even with voting) would not allow the aircraft control systems to shut the engine down. Shut down of engines has to remain the pilots decision.

I can see why the pilot should have the call on to shut down or not, but surely if it sops a compressor wheel popping out of the engine to say hello i would of thought it might safer to trip the engine if there is 3 others still going.

That's the whole point. The engines are designed to prevent loss of containment. That's what the blade-off tests are for and the amount of design work that goes into containment. You see the wraps of kevlar on one of those buggers. An engine must be able to destruct without escaping. That's why RR are in the st on this one.

[Simpo Two]

Olf said:

The engines are designed to prevent loss of containment.

'The engines are designed to contain' is easier

[eharding]

Olf said:

That's the whole point. The engines are designed to prevent loss of containment. That's what the blade-off tests are for and the amount of design work that goes into containment. You see the wraps of kevlar on one of those buggers. An engine must be able to destruct without escaping. That's why RR are in the st on this one.

Olf appears to have an arse-elbow differentiation problem.

Blade-loss events are required to be contained.

If a turbine disk comes apart, nothing short of battleship-grade armour, and lots of it (or Olf's skull) would stop a chunk of metal that large, with that much energy, going precisely where it was destined to do under Newtonian rules.

RR do have a problem, but not because the engine casing failed to contain a disk failure - they're in the merde because the disk came apart at all.

In summary: RR have a production quality problem, and Olf has a not-being-a-dolt-problem.

That is all.

[Olf]

Thinforth was talking about the compressor and I was thinking about that in my response but yes you're right, fair cop. No need to get personal though.

[Flintstone]

thinfourth2 said:

Olf said:

thinfourth2 said:

Question

Do Jet engines have a hi vibration trip?

As the article talks about the vibration increasing in steam turbine world when your vibs go above a certain level the turbine stops. but in shipping you can stop and float planes don't float they make like a brick. So is there circumstance where the engine will shutdown automatically or will it run to destruction?

They would not have a trip in the traditional sense in that high vibration detection (even with voting) would not allow the aircraft control systems to shut the engine down. Shut down of engines has to remain the pilots decision.

I can see why the pilot should have the call on to shut down or not, but surely if it sops a compressor wheel popping out of the engine to say hello i would of thought it might safer to trip the engine if there is 3 others still going.

I see what you're saying but ultimately the decision to shut down a running engine should remain with the crew. Mind you, that didn't go well at Kegworth.