Beneteau First 210 for first boat, what to pay?

[wetny]

Been thinking about getting a family boat. Originally considered getting a large dinghy, Stratos or Omega sort of size, but didn't really like the idea of tipping them all in the water. The commodore at the local sailing club suggested a Sailfish 18. I think they are ok, but I fancy something a bit more modern. The Beneteau First 210 seems to be in my price range and looks like a lot of boat for the money. However, living in the midlands, realistically I would have to use it mostly on the local reservoir. Would a boat like this be welcome? Or is it a bit too big? Had a look on the web site for Carsington water and they are on the approved list there, but my local reservoir is a lot smaller. Also, with a typical boat costing about 12k, what is a reasonable offer? There seems to be thousands of boats offered for sale at the moment, surely they are not all finding buyers. Also, are there any similar alternatives for this sort of cash?

Cheers.

[blueg33]

wetny said:

Been thinking about getting a family boat. Originally considered getting a large dinghy, Stratos or Omega sort of size, but didn't really like the idea of tipping them all in the water. The commodore at the local sailing club suggested a Sailfish 18. I think they are ok, but I fancy something a bit more modern. The Beneteau First 210 seems to be in my price range and looks like a lot of boat for the money. However, living in the midlands, realistically I would have to use it mostly on the local reservoir. Would a boat like this be welcome? Or is it a bit too big? Had a look on the web site for Carsington water and they are on the approved list there, but my local reservoir is a lot smaller. Also, with a typical boat costing about 12k, what is a reasonable offer? There seems to be thousands of boats offered for sale at the moment, surely they are not all finding buyers. Also, are there any similar alternatives for this sort of cash?

Cheers.

This is no help to you, but I was brought up in the Midlands (Coventry) and we went to Hamble every weekend because that's where Dad kept his boat. His current boat is still there and he still lives near Coventry. The sea is much less limiting than reservoirs

[Tsippy]

It's only a 2hour drive from the Midlands to the South coast too

[Hard-Drive]

Echo that...I can leave my office next to the NEC on a Friday night and be sitting in my cockpit with a beer in my hand enjoying the sunshine in Gosport 2.5 hours later during the summer. You might get bored on a pond, but that said if this is your first boat a season on a pond while you learn the ropes is not a bad idea.

Some friends of mine have a First 210 which they keep at Rutland, it's a nice little boat and they have the advantage of no winter storage fees (take it home) and the ability to hitch it up to a 4x4 and pop off to Cornwall for a couple of weeks over the summer...something that for me is a serious sail from the Solent. As ever, it's all about compromises!

By the same token another midlands based mate of mine has one, however he keeps his in Valencia for weekend trips!

[Burrow01]

Rutland Water allows cruisers up to 21ft, and would be pretty close for you

[Fittster]

I'd get your mooring sorted out before you start think about a boat. Are you planning to leave it at the reservoir or launch it every time you sail?

(I'm assuming you know how to sail before all the 'Take course' posts start).

Edited by Fittster on Tuesday 22 March 10:20

[Rum Runner]

Midlands = Welsh Coast, lots of options

[Fittster]

Rum Runner said:

Midlands = Welsh Coast, lots of options

Roads are pretty poor to Wales, you might spend more time in the car than sailing. I've never sailed around Wales but I'm under the impression there aren't many places to potter around to.

Before I'd commit to keeping a boat in Wales I'd want to have a good idea how long it would take to get to the Solent or SW.

Somewhat depends where the OP is in the Midlands.

[Rum Runner]

Fittster said:

Roads are pretty poor to Wales, you might spend more time in the car than sailing. I've never sailed around Wales but I'm under the impression there aren't many places to potter around to.

Before I'd commit to keeping a boat in Wales I'd want to have a good idea how long it would take to get to the Solent or SW.

Somewhat depends where the OP is in the Midlands.

Roads are poor...best roads you can get in the U.K (Decent road surfaces all from extra funding) ..and they are not what they used to be. Wider and straighter.

The Fittster I am guessing you have not spent any time driving and sailing around Wales and come from the land where "The North is Birmingham" not Newcastle Upon Tyne which is actually North England.
I have spent a lot of time in the Solent and lived and Falmouth (Falmouth and the Carrick roads are great but that is quite long hike) and the 6 years in the Carib and a lot of time in the Med, so I can tell you its quite good in Wales.
North of the Bristol channel there is also next no commercial traffic. From us here in Abersoch / Pwllheli Ireland is 50-60 miles which is a nice day sail to other great cruising grounds. From Northern Ireland its a short hop to the Clyde and the Western Isles.
I would estimate 40% of yachties where I am are from the Midlands, the rest are mostly from Cheshire.
There is 20mins difference from Middle of Brum to Pwllheli and Portmouth.
Difference is though...Straight out in to quite protected open water with minimal tide, no traffic, clear waters and back drop of the whole Welsh mountain range.
http://turtle.zenfolio.com/

http://john53.zenfolio.com/boats/

http://www.abersoch.co.uk/

Edited by Rum Runner on Tuesday 22 March 22:59

[wetny]

Had intended keeping at home, but out of interest, what does a mooring cost roughly, I realise that it will vary depending on location and size, but typically for a boat like this what would I expect to pay?

[Rum Runner]

I swinging mooring...Used probably £300- New £600 and around £150 to have it lifted and put down at the start / end of season. Marine roughly 1500- 2000K.

[Fittster]

wetny said:

Had intended keeping at home, but out of interest, what does a mooring cost roughly, I realise that it will vary depending on location and size, but typically for a boat like this what would I expect to pay?

You really, really want to have a go at launching/rigging a boat before you go down that route. The owner/whoever is selling it will tell you it's dead easy. Once you go beyond a large dinghy things tend to get a bit more difficult

First off you need to tow the boat to the slipway, I'd estimate that a 210 with kit + trailer is around 2500Kg, that means you need to start thinking about a decent 4x4 (But looking at your profile you should be OK there).

Then you need to launch the thing, what's the slipway like at the places you want to sail, does it get big queues, is there anywhere to park a car + trailer?

Rigging will take about 1 hours and will have to be undone when you recover the boat.

So you are going to lose a good 2 to 3 hours of any days sailing messing about on the slipway.

I don't mean to be hugely negative but I'm quite sceptical about trailer sailing. Towing and launching/recovering are more of a hassle than many people think. My feeling is that you'd get more use of the boat if you go for a mooring (find the right mooring is your next challenge).

[blueg33]

wetny said:

Had intended keeping at home, but out of interest, what does a mooring cost roughly, I realise that it will vary depending on location and size, but typically for a boat like this what would I expect to pay?

I went on the waiting list for a Harbourboard mooring on the Hamble when I was 15, I am now 45 and my name hasn't come to the top of the list yet! So that means marinas and they are pricey. Other locations are much cheaper

[maser_spyder]

Rum Runner said:

I swinging mooring...Used probably £300- New £600 and around £150 to have it lifted and put down at the start / end of season. Marine roughly 1500- 2000K.

And double that for the Solent.

[blueg33]

maser_spyder said:

And double that for the Solent.

My Dad has a harbour board mooring on the Hamble and has had it for 30 plus years, I think he pays about £700 pa, until a couple of years ago it was £250. Sometimes its pays to be an old git (hi dad if you are reading this )

[Rum Runner]

Fittster said:

You really, really want to have a go at launching/rigging a boat before you go down that route. The owner/whoever is selling it will tell you it's dead easy. Once you go beyond a large dinghy things tend to get a bit more difficult

First off you need to tow the boat to the slipway, I'd estimate that a 210 with kit + trailer is around 2500Kg, that means you need to start thinking about a decent 4x4 (But looking at your profile you should be OK there).

Then you need to launch the thing, what's the slipway like at the places you want to sail, does it get big queues, is there anywhere to park a car + trailer?

Rigging will take about 1 hours and will have to be undone when you recover the boat.

So you are going to lose a good 2 to 3 hours of any days sailing messing about on the slipway.

I don't mean to be hugely negative but I'm quite sceptical about trailer sailing. Towing and launching/recovering are more of a hassle than many people think. My feeling is that you'd get more use of the boat if you go for a mooring (find the right mooring is your next challenge).

Correct...trailer sailing is is a nice Idea but in practise is dreadful...We used to campaign a First class 8 all over and the drama's and work involved was tedious, and we where all young and a gang of 5 or 6.
Basically if you choose to go down that route you will never use it, it will sit around taking up space and cost money. Then sell it normally at a loss and after considerable ear ache from the other half.

Make the whole exercise of the boat as easy as you possible can, even if it costs a little extra to make it convenient.

[maser_spyder]

Rum Runner said:

Correct...trailer sailing is is a nice Idea but in practise is dreadful...We used to campaign a First class 8 all over and the drama's and work involved was tedious, and we where all young and a gang of 5 or 6.
Basically if you choose to go down that route you will never use it, it will sit around taking up space and cost money. Then sell it normally at a loss and after considerable ear ache from the other half.

Make the whole exercise of the boat as easy as you possible can, even if it costs a little extra to make it convenient.

Totally agree with this.

Where we moor our yacht, there's also a trailer-sailer yard with a slipway. First thing on a Saturday morning, when we're just gently getting up and having a coffee in the cockpit and reading the papers, we watch the poor sods struggling waist deep in the water trying to shift the trailer that's fallen off the slipway and manhandling their boats over to the pontoon. A right old bloody faff.

It's a minimum 2-man job to launch, and without trying to be condescending, it is mans work, you'll struggle with just yourself, wife and kids.

Far easier to live on the water, where you can come and go as you please, any time of day, with little stress. It's well worth spending the extra!

[Mrtee]

My Sister recently sold her First 210.

I sailed it (racing it) and also helped her launch and transport it from where she lived at the time (chichester) up here to Edinburgh a number of times.

I dont know if Id callit family friendly - in all honesty it was a bit of a handful in strongish winds - needing reefed instantly to stop it becoming overpowered.

the twin rudders are a farce - it took 2 hours of sailing the boat, with me looking only at them to get them set up to not drag horrifically when the boat heeled at all.

its very light and moves around a lot when moving around on the deck - not particulalry good if you have a "family" on board. plus it only really sleeps 3 - 4 would be a real crush.

I was not too impressed with it - it looked a lot faster and racier than it actually was.

getting it off and on the trailer was easy (first trailer got nicked though!) BUT.... I thought it was VERY nose heavy on the trailer and you would need a hefty car (she had a company 4x4) to tow it - I certainly wouldnt ever have put it on back of my A6 the boat was obviously too far back on the trailer when the hitch weight was about right.

once you knew what you were doing rigging it was quick and easy.


Id agree with the sentiments about buying something a little bigger or less trailer-sailer compromised.

[maser_spyder]

Mrtee said:

Id agree with the sentiments about buying something a little bigger or less trailer-sailer compromised.

Not much bigger, but a 'real' boat, sleeps 4 or 5 at a push. Not really trailerable as the rig is a bit too big to go up and down often.

http://www.theyachtmarket.com/boats/sailing-boats/...