Burgers & fries prices
Discussion
Apologises if already mentioned (I'm fairly sure I've recommneded them on another thread for a start!), but any burger fans who are in the North should try out Almost Famous - http://www.almostfamousburgers.com.
First time I went in I was worried it was style over substance and wasn't sure it would live up to the hype but the burgers were fantastic. Not the cheapest place, but a really good expereince.
First time I went in I was worried it was style over substance and wasn't sure it would live up to the hype but the burgers were fantastic. Not the cheapest place, but a really good expereince.
captain_cynic said:
I think we'll see plenty of store closures over the next year, just not from 5 Guys.
I'm not sure I can see the Kingston one lasting. It is big and in a poor part of town. I've never seen it busy, but then again the previous restaurant in the same premises (Tony Roma's) seemed to last for ages without seeming to take much money.captain_cynic said:
I don't think it's style over substance.
McDonalds got so big by being consistent. No matter which McD's you go to in the country its the same menu and the same quality. You know what you're going to get. I dare say you could go the world over and the food at McD's is pretty similar, I cant say the same for BK, Subway or KFC.
5 Guys is doing well because they're consistent and quality. You know what you're going to get and how good it is. I'd say Nandos is the same but I've found UK Nandos terrible compared to Oz.
However the coming economic instability is going to see a few of these chains fail, specifically the ones that expanded too fast. We've already seen a few start to go under like Gaucho's CAU brand. I dont think it'll be the likes of 5 Guys or Shake Shack though as they're famous enough to weather it.
to clarify, my point is about many saying how nice 5G's is. Im not saying its crap or it will succeed or fail or thats not a a consistently average product.McDonalds got so big by being consistent. No matter which McD's you go to in the country its the same menu and the same quality. You know what you're going to get. I dare say you could go the world over and the food at McD's is pretty similar, I cant say the same for BK, Subway or KFC.
5 Guys is doing well because they're consistent and quality. You know what you're going to get and how good it is. I'd say Nandos is the same but I've found UK Nandos terrible compared to Oz.
However the coming economic instability is going to see a few of these chains fail, specifically the ones that expanded too fast. We've already seen a few start to go under like Gaucho's CAU brand. I dont think it'll be the likes of 5 Guys or Shake Shack though as they're famous enough to weather it.
im saying 5Gs is perceived as being fashionable and a cut above by the chattering classes. they havent a clue what bleecker is for example, but see 5Gs advertised heavily and coming soon articles etc signs and have read articles about the chain/brand and go there as its the done thing, irrespective of if its actually a good product for what it is.
im not saying its a bad product, its not its just average, but its poor value (not that that's relevant as the likes of bleecker could be considered poor value given the small sizes). people who dont know what a good burger is, and no nothing apart from the widespread chains, or crappy brake brothers ping chef retail park restaurants (a la, F&Bs, chiquito, TGI etc) or wetherpoons are the ones who think 5Gs is the best burger.
im not sating there crap or will fail/succeed, just why some think there the best theyve had. go have a bleecker, your local hipster street food equivalnet, or your almost famous, or even your nearest hawksmoor and then come back and say 5G's is the best.
in this country its seems you do have to pay for a decent burger, but go to the states and your cup runneth over. best ive ever had was in an unprepossessing San Francisco bar, which we had no idea about as we wanted some food with our beers and took a chance. outstanding, pink in the middle, good quality, flavoursome beef, with a good grind (not too big/small, not too bitty), not overly greasy, for a few bucks.
theplayingmantis said:
in this country its seems you do have to pay for a decent burger, but go to the states and your cup runneth over. best ive ever had was in an unprepossessing San Francisco bar, which we had no idea about as we wanted some food with our beers and took a chance. outstanding, pink in the middle, good quality, flavoursome beef, with a good grind (not too big/small, not too bitty), not overly greasy, for a few bucks.
I disagree with you about 5 Guys, it's as good as the other chains, definitely better than GBK or Byrons. I slightly prefer Honest because of their rosemary chips though, but taste is a subjective thing.However this statement applies to food in the UK in general. Restaurant food here is generally poor and if you want a decent meal you have to be prepared to shell out for it. Even in Australia you can usually find a decent meal for less than £10 (A$20 for arguments sake). Even Nando's here is poor compared to other countries. The thing is, I don't get why, The UK has the quality of ingredients, it has the talent... it just cant put them together into a cohesive package.
My biggest complaint with Five Guys is that it seems when they bought the price boards over they just swapped the $ signs for £ signs. You're paying in quid what you'd pay in dollars in the US but as you said, you've got to pay for a decent burger here.
Since you mentioned San Francisco, Super Dooper burger... The best chain I've ever been to... better than In-N-Out.
captain_cynic said:
My biggest complaint with Five Guys is that it seems when they bought the price boards over they just swapped the $ signs for £ signs. You're paying in quid what you'd pay in dollars in the US.
1 x hambuger1 x small fries
1 x regular drink
US (random store in CO) = $15.14 inc tax = £11.91 (at $1.27/£1)
UK = £13.65
It's about 15% more expensive here.
captain_cynic said:
theplayingmantis said:
in this country its seems you do have to pay for a decent burger, but go to the states and your cup runneth over. best ive ever had was in an unprepossessing San Francisco bar, which we had no idea about as we wanted some food with our beers and took a chance. outstanding, pink in the middle, good quality, flavoursome beef, with a good grind (not too big/small, not too bitty), not overly greasy, for a few bucks.
I disagree with you about 5 Guys, it's as good as the other chains, definitely better than GBK or Byrons. I slightly prefer Honest because of their rosemary chips though, but taste is a subjective thing.However this statement applies to food in the UK in general. Restaurant food here is generally poor and if you want a decent meal you have to be prepared to shell out for it. Even in Australia you can usually find a decent meal for less than £10 (A$20 for arguments sake). Even Nando's here is poor compared to other countries. The thing is, I don't get why, The UK has the quality of ingredients, it has the talent... it just cant put them together into a cohesive package.
My biggest complaint with Five Guys is that it seems when they bought the price boards over they just swapped the $ signs for £ signs. You're paying in quid what you'd pay in dollars in the US but as you said, you've got to pay for a decent burger here.
Since you mentioned San Francisco, Super Dooper burger... The best chain I've ever been to... better than In-N-Out.
captain_cynic said:
The thing is, I don't get why, The UK has the quality of ingredients, it has the talent... it just cant put them together into a cohesive package.
I've not sought any evidence to support my theory but I suspect pay comes into it. I can only really speak for the UK and would be interested to hear comparisons to other parts of the world.In the UK kitchen staff are often seen as disposable by employers because few employers actually rely on their staff being skilled. They would rather put reliance on dish specs, pre-prepared meals or components and spec photos. Sometimes a "Head Chef" is worth paying a decent salary but certainly the chains tend to pay little more than minimum wage and even less if someone is salaried but needs to do 50+ hour weeks to get the job done. The result is people doing the job to earn money which does nothing for the quality of the food produced be it in terms of cooking or presentation.
21TonyK said:
captain_cynic said:
The thing is, I don't get why, The UK has the quality of ingredients, it has the talent... it just cant put them together into a cohesive package.
I've not sought any evidence to support my theory but I suspect pay comes into it. I can only really speak for the UK and would be interested to hear comparisons to other parts of the world.In the UK kitchen staff are often seen as disposable by employers because few employers actually rely on their staff being skilled. They would rather put reliance on dish specs, pre-prepared meals or components and spec photos. Sometimes a "Head Chef" is worth paying a decent salary but certainly the chains tend to pay little more than minimum wage and even less if someone is salaried but needs to do 50+ hour weeks to get the job done. The result is people doing the job to earn money which does nothing for the quality of the food produced be it in terms of cooking or presentation.
So it gets made centrally.
So we get "short order cooks" rather than chefs.
Then the service becomes bland.
You can get away with it at scale for the lower end (McDonads, KFC, etc)
Carluccios, High end burgers, etc - you can't do it and I think we will see the death of many brands.
They need to find the right balance. Once I am paying £60 for a meal for 4 I have higher expectations. In fat I don't go to chains for family meals anymore, we use local independents (Thai, Vietnamese, pub/bistro)
21TonyK said:
I've not sought any evidence to support my theory but I suspect pay comes into it. I can only really speak for the UK and would be interested to hear comparisons to other parts of the world.
In the UK kitchen staff are often seen as disposable by employers because few employers actually rely on their staff being skilled. They would rather put reliance on dish specs, pre-prepared meals or components and spec photos. Sometimes a "Head Chef" is worth paying a decent salary but certainly the chains tend to pay little more than minimum wage and even less if someone is salaried but needs to do 50+ hour weeks to get the job done. The result is people doing the job to earn money which does nothing for the quality of the food produced be it in terms of cooking or presentation.
No differences in Oz or in the US (where wages are much lower). The wage thing is a myth otherwise food in the US would be far worse as kitchen staff aren't just considered disposable cogs, they're treated like it. In Europe they have stronger labour laws than we have, yet can produce decent restaurants at reasonable prices (or at least no more expensive than the UK).In the UK kitchen staff are often seen as disposable by employers because few employers actually rely on their staff being skilled. They would rather put reliance on dish specs, pre-prepared meals or components and spec photos. Sometimes a "Head Chef" is worth paying a decent salary but certainly the chains tend to pay little more than minimum wage and even less if someone is salaried but needs to do 50+ hour weeks to get the job done. The result is people doing the job to earn money which does nothing for the quality of the food produced be it in terms of cooking or presentation.
Also when I said talent, I probably should have used highly educated. No-one expects a burger-flipper to be a genius but our education system produces a person who can work in that environment with minimal training. To work in McDonalds in the Philippines you need a tertiary education because the school system don't produce someone with the prerequisite skills.
I think actual cooks and chefs do get it rough here in the UK though. Its a skilled profession that is treated like an unskilled one.
GT03ROB said:
Vaud said:
1 x hambuger
1 x small fries
1 x regular drink
UK = £13.65
For a takeaway burger? Ridiculous pricing. No wonder they are struggling. 1 x small fries
1 x regular drink
UK = £13.65
Take what I'm about to type the way I intend it to come across, but I can afford £15 without having to think about it, but for a "McDonald's experience" that's just obscene pricing IMO.
Here is how crazy 5 guys is.
As I noted, £13.65 for a luke warm burger and I have to go to the counter to collect it,
Next door, The Ivy (ok, so this is Harrogate).. Looks like very nice environment.
The Ivy hamburger: Chargrilled in a potato bun with mayonnaise, horseradish ketchup and thick cut chips. £14.25
Ok, no drink for that price, but I will try it next time instead, it's close enough the same price point.
As I noted, £13.65 for a luke warm burger and I have to go to the counter to collect it,
Next door, The Ivy (ok, so this is Harrogate).. Looks like very nice environment.
The Ivy hamburger: Chargrilled in a potato bun with mayonnaise, horseradish ketchup and thick cut chips. £14.25
Ok, no drink for that price, but I will try it next time instead, it's close enough the same price point.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I keep thinking I should try one but £15 for a cheeseburger and fries v £5.50 for a McDonald's Big Tasty Meal and honestly McDonald's will get my money.
Take what I'm about to type the way I intend it to come across, but I can afford £15 without having to think about it, but for a "McDonald's experience" that's just obscene pricing IMO.
big tasty sauce has been changed apparently, folks are up in arms about it. Take what I'm about to type the way I intend it to come across, but I can afford £15 without having to think about it, but for a "McDonald's experience" that's just obscene pricing IMO.
theplayingmantis said:
big tasty sauce has been changed apparently, folks are up in arms about it.
Might have to see for myself...Big Mac, Signature, whatever though, my point is just that I can't bring myself to spend £15 on a burger and fries in a McDonald's type place.
I'm pretty fortunate in that I don't have to think too much about £15, some people aren't so fortunate - every time I've walked past a Five Guys where I am it's deserted.
I never see a deserted McDonalds.
Vaud said:
Roman Rhodes said:
BrabusMog said:
Shake Shack is owned by Alshaya, they'll never go under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.H._Alshaya_Co.
Incorrect. Shake shack is publicly listed on the NYSE.Got Shake Shack and Honest within spitting distance of our place in London - prob prefer Honest and you can order via their website and stroll in to collect when ready. Tourists seem to like SS and the queues are often big. End of the day they’re all just burgers and not worth getting too excited about!
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