waiter unhappy with tip

[anonymous-user]

Red 5 said:

talksthetorque said:

I hope you were on the east coast if your beer spelling is off at 4am UK time!

My previous employers didn't allow to claim for tips and was UK based.
I didn't tip because I was there for work, the same as the people serving me, and had a paltry meal allowance of £22 a day.
So it wasn't me being tight!
My employers now ( US based ) allow us to claim for tips and I have a decent daily budget - enough to buy meals I would choose when dining out for pleasure.
So now I do when I feel it appropriate and I'm away on business.

This is a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier.....

Happy to leave a decent tip when feels appropriate, when it’s not their own money so costs them zero personally.
Seemingly generous when it’s costing them zero. (so kind of a hollow gesture too)

Refuses to tip when has to come out of their own pocket, even though it might be appropriate.
So would rather behave in what they feel is an inappropriate manner, if the appropriate reaction would cost them any money.

This is the very definition of ‘I’m tight and it IS all about the money, but will take my denials to my grave’
It’s also a perfect example of ‘Everything I say I am, that’s what I’m not’

I did not intend to having a pop a you, and we can all do this too, as we’re all walking contradictions.

However, I’d like to suggest that instead of ‘Talking the Torque’, you..........

I’m glad I’m not the only one that thought that! I’d go a little further and say that in the days when I used to claim expenses I always used to think “if I was eating at home I wouldn’t be claiming the cost of the shopping”. Bit like getting free food if you’re in hospital.

If work is paying for the meal and the service was appropriate I’d be delighted to tip from my own pocket.

[talksthetorque]

Red 5 said:

talksthetorque said:

I hope you were on the east coast if your beer spelling is off at 4am UK time!

My previous employers didn't allow to claim for tips and was UK based.
I didn't tip because I was there for work, the same as the people serving me, and had a paltry meal allowance of £22 a day.
So it wasn't me being tight!
My employers now ( US based ) allow us to claim for tips and I have a decent daily budget - enough to buy meals I would choose when dining out for pleasure.
So now I do when I feel it appropriate and I'm away on business.

This is a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier.....

Happy to leave a decent tip when feels appropriate, when it’s not their own money so costs them zero personally.
Seemingly generous when it’s costing them zero. (so kind of a hollow gesture too)

Refuses to tip when has to come out of their own pocket, even though it might be appropriate.
So would rather behave in what they feel is an inappropriate manner, if the appropriate reaction would cost them any money.

This is the very definition of ‘I’m tight and it IS all about the money, but will take my denials to my grave’
It’s also a perfect example of ‘Everything I say I am, that’s what I’m not’

I did not intend to having a pop a you, and we can all do this too, as we’re all walking contradictions.

However, I’d like to suggest that instead of ‘Talking the Torque’, you..........

Tell you to FRO?

What type of service do you think I was getting when the total meal bill for 1 was less than £20?
I was mostly eating in the harvester etc next to the premier inn back then, and would often have to subsidise my meal out of my own pocket to buy what I wanted.

Also you seem to be telling me that I refuse to tip when it's out of my own pocket.
I have always tipped when I felt it appropriate when dining out for pleasure.

Do you think the servers I do tip now care about them getting my "hollow gesture"?
I don't always tip, so as far as I'm concerned it's not a hollow gesture.

I do acknowledge my contradiction here though and yes, I should have tipped on the few occasions I received good service and complained to my previous employers about the lack of meal allowance.
But when you have to go to the bar and tell them your table number that also takes the shine off any notion of great service

Tips are a legitimate business expense if you are away on business.
But like the COO might not be allowed to buy a stapler on expenses because the office manager has to buy it from an approved supplier, I was not allowed to claim for tips.
Perhaps I didn't explain this in my first post, but I tend to get too wordy and try to trim down after my initial purge

PS you failed miserably at "not having a pop at me"

[Kermit power]

Roman Rhodes said:

fttm said:

I spend half my life away from home , 3 x meals per day and depending where you eat the till options can start at 15% . My work partner will dine in fast food joints just so he does't have to tip , he also collects vouchers from chain stores to save a few cents on fuel for his huge dually and 5th wheel RV, life is too short for that nonsense . Get good service and a decent meal then give the waitress a decent tip .
Just back from a fundraiser in my local , bar tab was $56 , paid $70 , Guinness well poured and fresh pints before the previous was drained , plus the waitress is a student off back to college next week and she'll maybe get 2/300 in tips tonight from her serving area of the bar .

Edit ,spelling , maybe too many beers

Edited by fttm on Friday 23 August 05:18

No, no, no according to one tight-wad on here the waitress “should have concentrated more at school then and got themselves some qualifications so they wouldn't be restricted to NMW crappy jobs. This notion that we should take pity on them and subsidise their income by showering them with generous tips is frankly ludicrous.” You could have had a ‘fun’ night out with them and saved money too!

If Fttm is even vaguely telling the truth, then that student, even working 3 evenings a week would be taking home $35k+ a year in tips alone on top of any actual base pay.

The average US wage pay year was around $45k, and that's for people working a 40 hour week.

Tipping like that is ludicrous.

[Red 5]

talksthetorque said:

Tell you to FRO?

What type of service do you think I was getting when the total meal bill for 1 was less than £20?
I was mostly eating in the harvester etc next to the premier inn back then, and would often have to subsidise my meal out of my own pocket to buy what I wanted.

Also you seem to be telling me that I refuse to tip when it's out of my own pocket.
I have always tipped when I felt it appropriate when dining out for pleasure.

Do you think the servers I do tip now care about them getting my "hollow gesture"?
I don't always tip, so as far as I'm concerned it's not a hollow gesture.

I do acknowledge my contradiction here though and yes, I should have tipped on the few occasions I received good service and complained to my previous employers about the lack of meal allowance.
But when you have to go to the bar and tell them your table number that also takes the shine off any notion of great service

Tips are a legitimate business expense if you are away on business.
But like the COO might not be allowed to buy a stapler on expenses because the office manager has to buy it from an approved supplier, I was not allowed to claim for tips.
Perhaps I didn't explain this in my first post, but I tend to get too wordy and try to trim down after my initial purge

PS you failed miserably at "not having a pop at me"

Sorry

[DickyC]

A Bit Off Topic: When ar were a lad folk cared much more about what others thought. If there was an accepted social convention you were brave to defy it for fear of disapproval; possibly the disapproval of complete strangers. You would tip/stand your round/use a handkerchief/mind your language/stand up for a lady, all sorts of things. Now a lot of people seem to revel in their poor behaviour.

[Kermit power]

DickyC said:

A Bit Off Topic: When ar were a lad folk cared much more about what others thought. If there was an accepted social convention you were brave to defy it for fear of disapproval; possibly the disapproval of complete strangers. You would tip/stand your round/use a handkerchief/mind your language/stand up for a lady, all sorts of things. Now a lot of people seem to revel in their poor behaviour.

It would be interesting to look at the motivations for some of that...

1. Stand up for a lady? Yes, I know, there's the old "it's not because you're a lady, it's because I'm a gentleman", but nevertheless, when I was a lad, there was far less expectation of gender equality in society, and standing up for a lady was a part of that. Nowadays, why would anyone do that? I'd generally stand up for anyone entering the room in any sort of formal situation, not specifically for a woman. After all, we're all supposed to be equal now, aren't we?

2. Standing your round? I don't personally know anyone who doesn't.

3. Using a handkerchief? I've never owned one personally, but use paper tissues as and when needed. I hate it when people just sniff and snort instead of blowing their nose, but I'm not convinced it's on the increase?

4. You would tip? Possibly so, but since I was a lad, minimum wage has come in, and the cost of eating out has massively out-stripped inflation. There is no longer any sort of logical rationale for tipping, and that's why it's no longer frowned on in my view.

[petemurphy]

Where your tips go

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49432367

[ZedLeg]

All that suggests to me is that people should support their local independent places as much as they can and stop giving these greedy chains the money.

[xjay1337]

petemurphy said:

Where your tips go

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49432367

Jesus - I very rarely went to Costa anyway but would not return after reading that. Absolutely horrific.

[bad company]

xjay1337 said:

petemurphy said:

Where your tips go

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49432367

Jesus - I very rarely went to Costa anyway but would not return after reading that. Absolutely horrific.

To be fair that’s all based on a company in Essex which owns several Costa franchises in the area. Unfair to take it out on other franchises.

[fttm]

Kermit power said:

If Fttm is even vaguely telling the truth, then that student, even working 3 evenings a week would be taking home $35k+ a year in tips alone on top of any actual base pay.

The average US wage pay year was around $45k, and that's for people working a 40 hour week.

Tipping like that is ludicrous.

Give it a break with "vaguely telling the truth" please. As I said there was a Lyons fundraiser , bar was packed and the waitress worked hard , some make more over the weekends . The waitress won't make 35k as she leaves next week .
As for ludicrous tipping , I gave her $14 which is roughly 10 quid , she deserved it and I wont face bankruptcy .No animals or children were harmed by my decision

[Teddy Lop]

Lemming Train said:

WTF? Can you please stop making st up.

Non-tipper : goes and has meal, pays for meal, goes home and gets on with their life.
Tipper : goes and has meal, takes pity on waiter/waitress because they are apparently lower echelons of society, what with 'only' being on £8.21 an hour and not powerfully built with multiple directorships and on 6 figs like themselves, pays for meal and gives waiter/waitress 10-20% of the bill because £8.21 an hour for carrying some plates is a unique skill that no-one else can do so deserves extra , then goes home and spends all evening worrying about whether their tip was the 'right' amount and goes as far as writing a thread on an internet forum to ask randoms for the correct etiquette .

Your 'master and slave' analogy makes no sense whatsoever. The non-tippers couldn't give a flying fk about the wages/lifestyle of the staff working in a restaurant because a) they're there to fill their bellies and have a good time with whatever company they've brought along with them, b) it's none of their business nor concern and c) no-one is forcing them to work there; if they don't like their lot then they are free to resign and seek employment elsewhere just like at any other company.

The truth of the matter which none of the tippers will ever admit to (except the one guy up thread) is that they are only tipping because that's what society has deemed to be the thing to do and they don't want to be seen as non-conformists as they're frightened to death of what people will think of them . It's nothing to do with the attentiveness of the waiter/waitress; that just happens to be a convenient excuse in an attempt to justify why they're giving them a tax-free tenner or twenty just for doing their job. But of course that argument instantly falls apart when it transpires they don't tip staff in Asda, Starbucks or McDonald's for their attentiveness. Why is that? Because society has not said to tip staff in Asda, Starbucks or McDonald's for good attentive service, so they don't and no-one bats an eyelid.

What conformists can't tolerate are non-conformists, so resort to calling them sociopaths, tight gits and other such nonsense in an attempt to shut them down.

Edited by Lemming Train on Wednesday 21st August 19:09

wow. I bet you're a knocker aren't you?

I thought of pointing out its perfectly possible to enjoy leaving a few quid out of respect but if you expanded your horizons enough to believe me you'd probably look like a dog that's been shown a card trick.

[Kermit power]

fttm said:

Give it a break with "vaguely telling the truth" please. As I said there was a Lyons fundraiser , bar was packed and the waitress worked hard , some make more over the weekends . The waitress won't make 35k as she leaves next week .
As for ludicrous tipping , I gave her $14 which is roughly 10 quid , she deserved it and I wont face bankruptcy .No animals or children were harmed by my decision

What does the fact she's leaving have to do with anything? Someone earning the national average wage won't earn $45k if they leave part way through the year either...

[anonymous-user]

Kermit power said:

fttm said:

Give it a break with "vaguely telling the truth" please. As I said there was a Lyons fundraiser , bar was packed and the waitress worked hard , some make more over the weekends . The waitress won't make 35k as she leaves next week .
As for ludicrous tipping , I gave her $14 which is roughly 10 quid , she deserved it and I wont face bankruptcy .No animals or children were harmed by my decision

What does the fact she's leaving have to do with anything? Someone earning the national average wage won't earn $45k if they leave part way through the year either...

You’re struggling. Does he need to draw pictures for you?

1) It isn’t like that every night.
2) She’s a student going back to college. Here’s a generous tip in recognition of that and the great service tonight.
3) £10 is a bargain when you’re an adult and someone has made your evening better than it might have been.

The dog/card trick analogy above is bang-on for the non-tippers on this thread.

[RDMcG]

I am very sure that all of this discussion has had zero impact on behaviour. As someone who normally tips I will continue to do so and doubtless those who never tip will do likewise.

It is just a surprise that it appears to enrage people who disagree with the opposite view. In my case i believe that you have no need to tip if if that’s your position.

As I said previously the only occasion in which it affects me (thankfully a rare event) is in splitting a bill where I will quietly slip some cash to the waiter to compensate for the non-tipper. No disagreement at the table, non-tipper maintains position and waiter is tipped.

[petemurphy]

Roman Rhodes said:

You’re struggling. Does he need to draw pictures for you?

1) It isn’t like that every night.
2) She’s a student going back to college. Here’s a generous tip in recognition of that and the great service tonight.
3) £10 is a bargain when you’re an adult and someone has made your evening better than it might have been.

The dog/card trick analogy above is bang-on for the non-tippers on this thread.

a sheep is prob better analogy than a dog for the tippers then

[Kermit power]

Roman Rhodes said:

Kermit power said:

fttm said:

Give it a break with "vaguely telling the truth" please. As I said there was a Lyons fundraiser , bar was packed and the waitress worked hard , some make more over the weekends . The waitress won't make 35k as she leaves next week .
As for ludicrous tipping , I gave her $14 which is roughly 10 quid , she deserved it and I wont face bankruptcy .No animals or children were harmed by my decision

What does the fact she's leaving have to do with anything? Someone earning the national average wage won't earn $45k if they leave part way through the year either...

You’re struggling. Does he need to draw pictures for you?

1) It isn’t like that every night.
2) She’s a student going back to college. Here’s a generous tip in recognition of that and the great service tonight.
3) £10 is a bargain when you’re an adult and someone has made your evening better than it might have been.

The dog/card trick analogy above is bang-on for the non-tippers on this thread.

Ah, right, got it.

So presumably if you take your kids to Go Ape or something similar in the summer holidays with plenty of students working summer jobs on minimum wage, I take it you're going to tip them?

After all, they've made your day better than it might have been, and they're going back to Uni soon, so a tenner is a bargain, isn't it?

[petemurphy]

Kermit power said:

Ah, right, got it.

So presumably if you take your kids to Go Ape or something similar in the summer holidays with plenty of students working summer jobs on minimum wage, I take it you're going to tip them?

After all, they've made your day better than it might have been, and they're going back to Uni soon, so a tenner is a bargain, isn't it?

he's very ageist the students may be earning a fortune in later life - the old ladies on checkout in asda probably need the tip more.

[nonsequitur]

Kermit power said:

Ah, right, got it.

So presumably if you take your kids to Go Ape or something similar in the summer holidays with plenty of students working summer jobs on minimum wage, I take it you're going to tip them?

After all, they've made your day better than it might have been, and they're going back to Uni soon, so a tenner is a bargain, isn't it?

I would argue that there are some jobs where tipping is expected and some where it isn't.
Yes: table food service / hairdressers / taxi driver. (There are others).
No: Go ape / fast food / sales assistants / postman etc. and all other situations where a service has been provided but no tip is expected.

[anonymous-user]

nonsequitur said:

Kermit power said:

Ah, right, got it.

So presumably if you take your kids to Go Ape or something similar in the summer holidays with plenty of students working summer jobs on minimum wage, I take it you're going to tip them?

After all, they've made your day better than it might have been, and they're going back to Uni soon, so a tenner is a bargain, isn't it?

I would argue that there are some jobs where tipping is expected and some where it isn't.
Yes: table food service / hairdressers / taxi driver. (There are others).
No: Go ape / fast food / sales assistants / postman etc. and all other situations where a service has been provided but no tip is expected.

I don't know if the non-tippers really struggle to understand these simple day to day customs, etiquette and behaviours or whether they just use the whatabouts as some kind of imaginary figleaf and to try and justify their stinginess to themselves! It's like they're either desperately naive or desperately tight (maybe both?) but afraid to admit to either. The bolder ones like to portray themselves as 'non-conformists' and 'free-thinkers' but they don't kid anyone.