waiter unhappy with tip
Discussion
paulguitar said:
Kermit power said:
paulguitar said:
Kermit power said:
Nobody is ever going to change your opinion? Really?
Let's say that legislation was passed tomorrow giving all waiters in the States a minimum annual salary of $200k. Would you still keep giving them a 20% tip whenever you ate out?
Don't be childish. We both know that is never going to happen.Let's say that legislation was passed tomorrow giving all waiters in the States a minimum annual salary of $200k. Would you still keep giving them a 20% tip whenever you ate out?
My point being that it's absurd to say that your opinion can never be changed, because circumstances change, and you'd be foolish not to adapt to changing circumstances.
At the moment, for example, I generally only tip in the UK when I actually get better than average service, because as far as I'm concerned, I'm paying for average service with the bill, and any restaurant owner actually implementing a policy of "service not included" in the days of minimum wage would be breaking the law.
If, however, Boris decided to bring in a policy tomorrow saying that restaurants were allowed to pay waiters at 50% of minimum wage because of the levels of tips as happens in many US states, then I'd change my opinion. I would, however, expect the restaurant bill on which I'm calculating the tip to drop too.
TartanPaint said:
How often do you eat out? Maybe you've been eating out a few times a week for 40 years and it's just sustenance to you. Or maybe you eat out only on your birthday when you're feeling particularly happy and generous?
Are you there specifically for the food and venue, perhaps a date night, where the experience matters? Or just meeting friends for a chat, where the meal is of secondary importance and you'll have a good time regardless.
Is it an expensive meal for you, relatively speaking?
Where are you? Is it a burger chain with transient staff who don't care much about your meal as long as they pay their tuition fees next term? Or a husband and wife team who know you by name, running a cafe and employing the village's (slightly clumsy) teenagers? Or a professional owner-managed restaurant who is coaching the yoof of today into the hospitality industry?
Are you eating out in your own village, or in a city you'll never visit again?
Do you value good service, or will just the basics do? Would you actually recognise good service if you saw it, or does it all go over your head as long as the food is hot and mostly on the plate?
Have you ever been a waiter, kitchen staff, or worked in any service industry?
All of the above and dozens of other reasons might influence why different people in different places have different views about whether to tip and how much, and I don't think any particular answer is right or wrong all the time.
Even still, some of the attitudes on display on this thread... bloody hell.
Some right miserable gits.
A fair point. My waiting/bartending work was in hotels and with event caterers during Sixth form & Uni. Tips were very unusual, mostly because people weren't actually having to put their hands in their pockets on the day. We still worked just as hard as people in high street restaurants, for the same base pay though. I certainly didn't complain, as I quite enjoyed the work, and earned more per hour than friends working in shops. I probably also actually earned more than friends working in High Street restaurants during periods like the Christmas Holidays, but that's just because the hotel had work going from around 09:00 to 02:00 non-stop if you wanted it, whereas seasonal waiting staff in restaurants got nothing like as much.Are you there specifically for the food and venue, perhaps a date night, where the experience matters? Or just meeting friends for a chat, where the meal is of secondary importance and you'll have a good time regardless.
Is it an expensive meal for you, relatively speaking?
Where are you? Is it a burger chain with transient staff who don't care much about your meal as long as they pay their tuition fees next term? Or a husband and wife team who know you by name, running a cafe and employing the village's (slightly clumsy) teenagers? Or a professional owner-managed restaurant who is coaching the yoof of today into the hospitality industry?
Are you eating out in your own village, or in a city you'll never visit again?
Do you value good service, or will just the basics do? Would you actually recognise good service if you saw it, or does it all go over your head as long as the food is hot and mostly on the plate?
Have you ever been a waiter, kitchen staff, or worked in any service industry?
All of the above and dozens of other reasons might influence why different people in different places have different views about whether to tip and how much, and I don't think any particular answer is right or wrong all the time.
Even still, some of the attitudes on display on this thread... bloody hell.
Some right miserable gits.A question, therefore, for those who claim to always tip their waiter. How much did you tip the waiter at the last wedding or corporate event you went to? If the answer is anything above zero, then 99% of you are lying!
Kermit power said:
I have. I've done it by living in France & Spain, and also taking a lead from local colleagues when I'm somewhere new. Still, you clearly know better because you read it on the Internet, so I'll leave you to it.
Of course. You've been there and done that and everyone else has only experienced life via the internet. Your European anecdotes absolutely support your view that UK waiting staff are "grasping f
kers". We have indeed found the new Alan Whicker in Kermit power!
DickyC said:
paulguitar said:
DickyC said:
fiju said:
Workhouse?
fiju said:
I don't give to charity either. If they want my money, they can work for it like everyone else.
t! "Plenty of prisons..."
Scrooge-"And the Union workhouses." . "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
Scrooge- "If they would rather die," "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Roman Rhodes said:
Kermit power said:
bad company said:
I’m not going to join the argument but just Googled tipping in Spain.
http://www.andalucia.com/travel/tipping/home.htm
To which one can easily counter with, for example... http://www.andalucia.com/travel/tipping/home.htm
Post Office Money website said:
While tipping in Spain isn’t a core part of Spanish culture, the tradition is becoming more and more common in restaurants, hotels and cafés. As with a lot of Europe, hospitality workers in Spain are usually full-time workers and get a living wage, so don’t expect a tip for doing a job they are already paid for. That said, a small gratuity to show your appreciation for their service is always appreciated.
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/travel-money/tipping-...
You can easily find opposing answers to pretty much any question you can think of on the Internet, so I'll stick to the view I've picked up from living there and then travelling on business there regularly over the past twenty years, thanks.
France:
French law requires all service charges to be included on the bill. That means tipping is much the same in the UK – a reward for good service, not an obligation. If there is no service charge, tip around 10-12.5%. Taxis, hotel staff and tour guides won’t necessarily expect a tip – but they will be appreciated.
Italy:
Tip 5-10% – just round the bill up to the nearest €5 or €10. Keep an eye out for the ‘pane e coperto’ – the restaurant charging you for bread. That’s a general charge that’s different from ‘servizio’ – service charge. You’ll be expected to pay both charges, though don’t feel obligated to include a separate tip as well – especially if the charges are a bit high.
Spain:
Service charge is usually included, especially in tourist areas. However, it’s polite to add a few Euros – 5-10% on top of the bill. If there’s no service charge, pay 15%.
Thanks, though, for demonstrating the absurdity of taking advice from websites rather than going on personal experience, given that you've managed to unearth completely contradictory statements on Spain just from the Post Office, never mind other so-called "experts"!
I'll stick with what I know to be accurate in real life, thanks.
Kermit power said:
A question, therefore, for those who claim to always tip their waiter. How much did you tip the waiter at the last wedding or corporate event you went to? If the answer is anything above zero, then 99% of you are lying!
As a guest, no, there's no real opportunity to tip the waiters if you're not paying the bill. The barstaff usually do quite well though... 
Kermit power said:
Do you ask the name of the person on the checkout in the supermarket? Do you expect them to say "hello, I'm your checkout attendant today" when you're putting your stuff on the belt?
Fair enough, if I'm on my own for a meal when I'm travelling on business, it can be quite nice to chat to the waiter a bit, but if I'm already with a group, then why would you want to spend time talking to the waiter rather than the people you've chosen to eat with?
Because, Kermo, it is a polite courteous and sociable thing to do. Not deep conversation, just a few words here and there to bring the server into your occason. After all they are a large part of your night out. Without them, you don't eat. You end up here.Fair enough, if I'm on my own for a meal when I'm travelling on business, it can be quite nice to chat to the waiter a bit, but if I'm already with a group, then why would you want to spend time talking to the waiter rather than the people you've chosen to eat with?
nonsequitur said:
Kermit power said:
Do you ask the name of the person on the checkout in the supermarket? Do you expect them to say "hello, I'm your checkout attendant today" when you're putting your stuff on the belt?
Fair enough, if I'm on my own for a meal when I'm travelling on business, it can be quite nice to chat to the waiter a bit, but if I'm already with a group, then why would you want to spend time talking to the waiter rather than the people you've chosen to eat with?
Because, Kermo, it is a polite courteous and sociable thing to do. Not deep conversation, just a few words here and there to bring the server into your occason. After all they are a large part of your night out. Without them, you don't eat. You end up here.Fair enough, if I'm on my own for a meal when I'm travelling on business, it can be quite nice to chat to the waiter a bit, but if I'm already with a group, then why would you want to spend time talking to the waiter rather than the people you've chosen to eat with?
I think the comparisons made to other industries are largely invalid.
If you really do think all a waiter or waitress does is "carry plates" then you have either not experienced decent service or you are seriously mistaken.
For many people going out for a proper meal is an occasion, not talking Harvester or a mid-week "cant be bothered to cook" in and out somewhere.
That being the case a large part of your evening is dependent on the staff serving you, if they just "carry plates" your evening will be less than satisfactory. If they make sure your drinks and meals are served exactly when and how you want, meet any extra requests and are attentive to your table you will relax and have a good time.
I don't think the same can be said of some of the comparisons.
If you really do think all a waiter or waitress does is "carry plates" then you have either not experienced decent service or you are seriously mistaken.
For many people going out for a proper meal is an occasion, not talking Harvester or a mid-week "cant be bothered to cook" in and out somewhere.
That being the case a large part of your evening is dependent on the staff serving you, if they just "carry plates" your evening will be less than satisfactory. If they make sure your drinks and meals are served exactly when and how you want, meet any extra requests and are attentive to your table you will relax and have a good time.
I don't think the same can be said of some of the comparisons.
Kermit power said:
Roman Rhodes said:
Kermit power said:
bad company said:
I’m not going to join the argument but just Googled tipping in Spain.
http://www.andalucia.com/travel/tipping/home.htm
To which one can easily counter with, for example... http://www.andalucia.com/travel/tipping/home.htm
Post Office Money website said:
While tipping in Spain isn’t a core part of Spanish culture, the tradition is becoming more and more common in restaurants, hotels and cafés. As with a lot of Europe, hospitality workers in Spain are usually full-time workers and get a living wage, so don’t expect a tip for doing a job they are already paid for. That said, a small gratuity to show your appreciation for their service is always appreciated.
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/travel-money/tipping-...
You can easily find opposing answers to pretty much any question you can think of on the Internet, so I'll stick to the view I've picked up from living there and then travelling on business there regularly over the past twenty years, thanks.
France:
French law requires all service charges to be included on the bill. That means tipping is much the same in the UK – a reward for good service, not an obligation. If there is no service charge, tip around 10-12.5%. Taxis, hotel staff and tour guides won’t necessarily expect a tip – but they will be appreciated.
Italy:
Tip 5-10% – just round the bill up to the nearest €5 or €10. Keep an eye out for the ‘pane e coperto’ – the restaurant charging you for bread. That’s a general charge that’s different from ‘servizio’ – service charge. You’ll be expected to pay both charges, though don’t feel obligated to include a separate tip as well – especially if the charges are a bit high.
Spain:
Service charge is usually included, especially in tourist areas. However, it’s polite to add a few Euros – 5-10% on top of the bill. If there’s no service charge, pay 15%.
Thanks, though, for demonstrating the absurdity of taking advice from websites rather than going on personal experience, given that you've managed to unearth completely contradictory statements on Spain just from the Post Office, never mind other so-called "experts"!
I'll stick with what I know to be accurate in real life, thanks.
And do you deduct the service charge in France and Spain? Presumably the waiting staff there are, to use your words, just "grasping f
kers" the same as in the UK?Your "real life" is based on your own small minded approach to the world. All these opportunities you apparently have - yet refuse to appreciate!
21TonyK said:
I think the comparisons made to other industries are largely invalid.
If you really do think all a waiter or waitress does is "carry plates" then you have either not experienced decent service or you are seriously mistaken.
For many people going out for a proper meal is an occasion, not talking Harvester or a mid-week "cant be bothered to cook" in and out somewhere.
That being the case a large part of your evening is dependent on the staff serving you, if they just "carry plates" your evening will be less than satisfactory. If they make sure your drinks and meals are served exactly when and how you want, meet any extra requests and are attentive to your table you will relax and have a good time.
I don't think the same can be said of some of the comparisons.
An exellent summation. If you really do think all a waiter or waitress does is "carry plates" then you have either not experienced decent service or you are seriously mistaken.
For many people going out for a proper meal is an occasion, not talking Harvester or a mid-week "cant be bothered to cook" in and out somewhere.
That being the case a large part of your evening is dependent on the staff serving you, if they just "carry plates" your evening will be less than satisfactory. If they make sure your drinks and meals are served exactly when and how you want, meet any extra requests and are attentive to your table you will relax and have a good time.
I don't think the same can be said of some of the comparisons.
One that has been missed, or ignored, by many posters. In a restaurant / meal out situation the staff are very much part of your experience, and should be treated as such.nonsequitur said:
An exellent summation. One that has been missed, or ignored, by many posters. In a restaurant / meal out situation the staff are very much part of your experience, and should be treated as such.
I've been saying it all along and some people have been beastly. One that has been missed, or ignored, by many posters. In a restaurant / meal out situation the staff are very much part of your experience, and should be treated as such.And didn't leave a tip.
Kermit power said:
A question, therefore, for those who claim to always tip their waiter. How much did you tip the waiter at the last wedding or corporate event you went to? If the answer is anything above zero, then 99% of you are lying!
I don't "always tip the waiter" (has anyone claimed they do?) but I'll answer your question anyway.Last wedding - put £20 in the hat for the staff (hat provided by a guest, not the venue).
Corporate event - not unusual at all to have a whip-round for the staff if you're in a box at an event.
I get the impression you're nowhere near as 'worldly-wise' as you seem to think you are.
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