Coffee. Grinder and Cafetiere or Pods in a machine
Discussion
Scroll back to the end of last year, I was in the same boat as Tyre Smoke. Albeit, spending over £100 per month on Nespresso pods. Drinking around 10 Vertuo pods per day, 2 x Double Espresso pods at a time in a mug of milk. Never paid much for the machines, always some kind of deal on and I would get one for £100 with £80 worth of pods, or something like that. None ever broke, I just chucked the old ones out when they got a bit tatty, needed descaled, or I fancied a new one.
As others have said, Nespresso pods make not too bad coffee. With zero hassle, no mess, super convenient, reliable. I could keep the machine next to my home office desk - no need to be next to a kitchen sink, and nothing to clean up or maintain.
Nespresso works out around £1 per mug if you are using 2 Vertuo pods at a time. Half that if you like weak, watery, coffee. For me around £5 per day for my 5 mugs. Call it £1800 per year. Cost of machine, next to zero, so irrelevant. Much cheaper than Starbucks. A lot more expensive than instant. Coffee, perfectly acceptable - especially in a milk-based drink. Want it stronger? Just use more pods.
Fast forward to this month. Spent £1600 on a espresso machine and grinder (plus another £200 on scales, jugs, filters and other assorted kit). Not decided on what beans I like best (can't really tell much difference between them - they are all pretty good), but have tried a few ranging from £25 to £40 per kilo. All make good coffee, but with a little bit more effort needed than Nespresso.
I need to make 2 shots of 20g to get a decent mug. Less convenient to make than the Nespresso, so I'm probably only having 2 bigger mugs and a couple of smaller cups per day. Call it 140g per day, 1kg per week, 4kg per month. You've guessed it - close to the £5 per day I was spending on Nespresso pods. So I am not saving any money switching from Nespresso. Could be a lot more if I decide I really like the expensive, w
ky, beans more than the cheaper ones. I'll try not to!
I would say - now I've got the hang of making it - the coffee from the new machine is a bit better than Nespresso. Smoother. Can make it stronger, but still milky. Tasty. Hard to explain. Almost as good as the stuff I got from the local hipster coffee shop. Some of that is the consistency of the frothy milk - better texture possible than the Aeroccino.
Of course, the entry point to "proper" coffee is much less than £1600. Maybe nearer £900 with new kit. You still need to drink a lot of coffee - and use cheaper beans - for it to get anywhere near to breaking even with Nespresso for the total outlay over a year. Maybe if you write down the hardware cost over a few years you can get closer. But, even in my non-expert opinion, the coffee you can make is a bit better than Nespresso. Is that degree of "better" worth spending £400 (2nd hand kit), £900 (basic entry-level new stuff), or £2k or more? That is an entirely personal viewpoint. There is no right answer.
I still have around £100 of Nespresso pods left over. Not used any since I got the new machine. But there for when I can't be arsed to make proper coffee.
As others have said, Nespresso pods make not too bad coffee. With zero hassle, no mess, super convenient, reliable. I could keep the machine next to my home office desk - no need to be next to a kitchen sink, and nothing to clean up or maintain.
Nespresso works out around £1 per mug if you are using 2 Vertuo pods at a time. Half that if you like weak, watery, coffee. For me around £5 per day for my 5 mugs. Call it £1800 per year. Cost of machine, next to zero, so irrelevant. Much cheaper than Starbucks. A lot more expensive than instant. Coffee, perfectly acceptable - especially in a milk-based drink. Want it stronger? Just use more pods.
Fast forward to this month. Spent £1600 on a espresso machine and grinder (plus another £200 on scales, jugs, filters and other assorted kit). Not decided on what beans I like best (can't really tell much difference between them - they are all pretty good), but have tried a few ranging from £25 to £40 per kilo. All make good coffee, but with a little bit more effort needed than Nespresso.
I need to make 2 shots of 20g to get a decent mug. Less convenient to make than the Nespresso, so I'm probably only having 2 bigger mugs and a couple of smaller cups per day. Call it 140g per day, 1kg per week, 4kg per month. You've guessed it - close to the £5 per day I was spending on Nespresso pods. So I am not saving any money switching from Nespresso. Could be a lot more if I decide I really like the expensive, w
ky, beans more than the cheaper ones. I'll try not to!I would say - now I've got the hang of making it - the coffee from the new machine is a bit better than Nespresso. Smoother. Can make it stronger, but still milky. Tasty. Hard to explain. Almost as good as the stuff I got from the local hipster coffee shop. Some of that is the consistency of the frothy milk - better texture possible than the Aeroccino.
Of course, the entry point to "proper" coffee is much less than £1600. Maybe nearer £900 with new kit. You still need to drink a lot of coffee - and use cheaper beans - for it to get anywhere near to breaking even with Nespresso for the total outlay over a year. Maybe if you write down the hardware cost over a few years you can get closer. But, even in my non-expert opinion, the coffee you can make is a bit better than Nespresso. Is that degree of "better" worth spending £400 (2nd hand kit), £900 (basic entry-level new stuff), or £2k or more? That is an entirely personal viewpoint. There is no right answer.
I still have around £100 of Nespresso pods left over. Not used any since I got the new machine. But there for when I can't be arsed to make proper coffee.
1 said:
Scroll back to the end of last year, I was in the same boat as Tyre Smoke. Albeit, spending over £100 per month on Nespresso pods. Drinking around 10 Vertuo pods per day, 2 x Double Espresso pods at a time in a mug of milk. Never paid much for the machines, always some kind of deal on and I would get one for £100 with £80 worth of pods, or something like that. None ever broke, I just chucked the old ones out when they got a bit tatty, needed descaled, or I fancied a new one.
As others have said, Nespresso pods make not too bad coffee. With zero hassle, no mess, super convenient, reliable. I could keep the machine next to my home office desk - no need to be next to a kitchen sink, and nothing to clean up or maintain.
Nespresso works out around £1 per mug if you are using 2 Vertuo pods at a time. Half that if you like weak, watery, coffee. For me around £5 per day for my 5 mugs. Call it £1800 per year. Cost of machine, next to zero, so irrelevant. Much cheaper than Starbucks. A lot more expensive than instant. Coffee, perfectly acceptable - especially in a milk-based drink. Want it stronger? Just use more pods.
Fast forward to this month. Spent £1600 on a espresso machine and grinder (plus another £200 on scales, jugs, filters and other assorted kit). Not decided on what beans I like best (can't really tell much difference between them - they are all pretty good), but have tried a few ranging from £25 to £40 per kilo. All make good coffee, but with a little bit more effort needed than Nespresso.
I need to make 2 shots of 20g to get a decent mug. Less convenient to make than the Nespresso, so I'm probably only having 2 bigger mugs and a couple of smaller cups per day. Call it 140g per day, 1kg per week, 4kg per month. You've guessed it - close to the £5 per day I was spending on Nespresso pods. So I am not saving any money switching from Nespresso. Could be a lot more if I decide I really like the expensive, wky, beans more than the cheaper ones. I'll try not to!
I would say - now I've got the hang of making it - the coffee from the new machine is a bit better than Nespresso. Smoother. Can make it stronger, but still milky. Tasty. Hard to explain. Almost as good as the stuff I got from the local hipster coffee shop. Some of that is the consistency of the frothy milk - better texture possible than the Aeroccino.
Of course, the entry point to "proper" coffee is much less than £1600. Maybe nearer £900 with new kit. You still need to drink a lot of coffee - and use cheaper beans - for it to get anywhere near to breaking even with Nespresso for the total outlay over a year. Maybe if you write down the hardware cost over a few years you can get closer. But, even in my non-expert opinion, the coffee you can make is a bit better than Nespresso. Is that degree of "better" worth spending £400 (2nd hand kit), £900 (basic entry-level new stuff), or £2k or more? That is an entirely personal viewpoint. There is no right answer.
I still have around £100 of Nespresso pods left over. Not used any since I got the new machine. But there for when I can't be arsed to make proper coffee.
Great summary, albeit I’m yet to plunge into the world of a Niche grinder and Espresso machine, I’m a Krups burr grinder and Aeropress guy, with the Nespresso frother for the milk funnily enough! As others have said, Nespresso pods make not too bad coffee. With zero hassle, no mess, super convenient, reliable. I could keep the machine next to my home office desk - no need to be next to a kitchen sink, and nothing to clean up or maintain.
Nespresso works out around £1 per mug if you are using 2 Vertuo pods at a time. Half that if you like weak, watery, coffee. For me around £5 per day for my 5 mugs. Call it £1800 per year. Cost of machine, next to zero, so irrelevant. Much cheaper than Starbucks. A lot more expensive than instant. Coffee, perfectly acceptable - especially in a milk-based drink. Want it stronger? Just use more pods.
Fast forward to this month. Spent £1600 on a espresso machine and grinder (plus another £200 on scales, jugs, filters and other assorted kit). Not decided on what beans I like best (can't really tell much difference between them - they are all pretty good), but have tried a few ranging from £25 to £40 per kilo. All make good coffee, but with a little bit more effort needed than Nespresso.
I need to make 2 shots of 20g to get a decent mug. Less convenient to make than the Nespresso, so I'm probably only having 2 bigger mugs and a couple of smaller cups per day. Call it 140g per day, 1kg per week, 4kg per month. You've guessed it - close to the £5 per day I was spending on Nespresso pods. So I am not saving any money switching from Nespresso. Could be a lot more if I decide I really like the expensive, w
ky, beans more than the cheaper ones. I'll try not to!I would say - now I've got the hang of making it - the coffee from the new machine is a bit better than Nespresso. Smoother. Can make it stronger, but still milky. Tasty. Hard to explain. Almost as good as the stuff I got from the local hipster coffee shop. Some of that is the consistency of the frothy milk - better texture possible than the Aeroccino.
Of course, the entry point to "proper" coffee is much less than £1600. Maybe nearer £900 with new kit. You still need to drink a lot of coffee - and use cheaper beans - for it to get anywhere near to breaking even with Nespresso for the total outlay over a year. Maybe if you write down the hardware cost over a few years you can get closer. But, even in my non-expert opinion, the coffee you can make is a bit better than Nespresso. Is that degree of "better" worth spending £400 (2nd hand kit), £900 (basic entry-level new stuff), or £2k or more? That is an entirely personal viewpoint. There is no right answer.
I still have around £100 of Nespresso pods left over. Not used any since I got the new machine. But there for when I can't be arsed to make proper coffee.
The cost breakdown is useful as I’m looking to go into the world of espresso when circumstances allow.
I don’t think there’s any value in slating someone who enjoys Nespresso coffee, as the convenience is a big factor, and if you’re busy an average flat white made with one is absolutely fine. Not mind blowing but fine.
If we slated everyone with a Nespresso machine, they would cease to serve as a gateway drug to the world of freshly roasted and ground beans!
Beer is the same, I love poncy hazy craft IPA’s but sometimes a St Austell’s Proper Job or Peroni hits the spot just fine when you can’t be bothered to seek out some niche craft beer not sold in the supermarkets that you may not even enjoy anyway.
That is a vast amount of coffee to be drinking. Probably not good for you at all levels.
These ste coffee shops have tricked people into thinking drinking 400ml milk drinks is in any way normal. You will get more flavour and probably just a better drink full stop with a proper coffee cup because it won't be diluted so much and you won't need 5 shots in it...!
It does take quite a long time to master your machine, so I imagine it will just get better and better with time, I've had my Rocket maybe 6 years and I'd say reliably good coffee took a couple of years, and knowing when the grind needed to be adjusted by eye, knowing when you've nailed the milk etc, it all just takes a bit of time. The reason I say this is because the machine you have can make coffee that nobody in their right mind would compare to nespresso, 'a bit better' is on you, rather than the hardware so to speak, it should be total night/day stuff, but as said, it's a process.
These s
te coffee shops have tricked people into thinking drinking 400ml milk drinks is in any way normal. You will get more flavour and probably just a better drink full stop with a proper coffee cup because it won't be diluted so much and you won't need 5 shots in it...!It does take quite a long time to master your machine, so I imagine it will just get better and better with time, I've had my Rocket maybe 6 years and I'd say reliably good coffee took a couple of years, and knowing when the grind needed to be adjusted by eye, knowing when you've nailed the milk etc, it all just takes a bit of time. The reason I say this is because the machine you have can make coffee that nobody in their right mind would compare to nespresso, 'a bit better' is on you, rather than the hardware so to speak, it should be total night/day stuff, but as said, it's a process.
Through much online advice, including this very thread, I've recently swapped out our well loved Nespresso Creatista for a Gaggia Classic Pro. The main motivator was the upturn in pod consumption in lockdown which made me look at if I could spend similar per month for a better result, and take advantage of the huge range of roasters we seem to be blessed with in the UK.
As per 1's post above, after the event, I'd be kidding myelf if I really do save money longterm now I have all the required kit, and of course there's much more effort involved, especially at the start. However, I really enjoy getting into the method and improving technique. For me, the result in a MUCH better end-product was pretty much instant (terrible pun), and that's been with plodding along with pre-ground and a pressurised basket whilst I wait to pick up a used grinder this evening to keep me going whilst I wait to get a Niche or similar.
However, there is absolutely no denying Nespresso's convenience, and I'd be lying if I said there isn't a used Inissia machine next to the manual setup for those times where we want decent enough coffee at a press of a button.
As per 1's post above, after the event, I'd be kidding myelf if I really do save money longterm now I have all the required kit, and of course there's much more effort involved, especially at the start. However, I really enjoy getting into the method and improving technique. For me, the result in a MUCH better end-product was pretty much instant (terrible pun), and that's been with plodding along with pre-ground and a pressurised basket whilst I wait to pick up a used grinder this evening to keep me going whilst I wait to get a Niche or similar.
However, there is absolutely no denying Nespresso's convenience, and I'd be lying if I said there isn't a used Inissia machine next to the manual setup for those times where we want decent enough coffee at a press of a button.
Edited by Arun_D on Thursday 25th February 17:11
okgo said:
That is a vast amount of coffee to be drinking. Probably not good for you at all levels.
One of the non-obvious upsides to switching from Nespresso is that it takes more effort to make the coffee - hence less likely to just keep the same mug topped up all day long by sticking the cold dregs under the Nespresso spout. You can tell I have a sophisticated palate!After the initial novelty of the new machine wears off, I suspect I will manage to cut down to probably one mug in the morning with breakfast and 2 or 3 smaller cups later in the day / evening. Quality over quantity and all that. Or so I tell myself.
I see missed a lot while away DIYing.
1 you have only had the machine a couple of weeks, once you get the hang of it and find a bean you particularly like it is a different ball game.
Takes a while to work out what's what and only comes with time.
Have had pods while in hotels and I was impressed for a very short while (third or fourth ) and after that they tasted bland and boring.
Know someone who buys fresh beans and grinds them and puts them into empty pods, not sure if its for monetary or taste reason.
1 you have only had the machine a couple of weeks, once you get the hang of it and find a bean you particularly like it is a different ball game.
Takes a while to work out what's what and only comes with time.
Have had pods while in hotels and I was impressed for a very short while (third or fourth ) and after that they tasted bland and boring.
Know someone who buys fresh beans and grinds them and puts them into empty pods, not sure if its for monetary or taste reason.
okgo said:
paralla said:
Because coffee made with beans that were ground 1 minute ago is better than coffee made with beans that were ground 4 days ago.
This is what I do though, my grinder doesn't store ground coffee, it's just beans in the hopper and ground stuff out the other end, as per what Arun has said above.Also the Grinders with hoppers store a lot of the grinds in the chute. Not a big issue, but you need to 'purge' for your first shot of the day because you'll have yesterdays grinds in.
Again, that's not an issue. I prefer to dump 18g and get 18g straight back out with zero retention, but I can definitely see why others prefer to store beans in the hopper, do a little purge and they get their grinds.
Flibble said:
For single tube storage, would something like this be ideal? Tinted glass seems a good idea, though it might not make much difference if you're turning them over fairly quickly.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SHiZAK-Perfect-Cosmetics-...
Yeah. Some of the specialized 'Bean Cellars' have little oxygen release valves in their lids, which should help with freshness. https://www.amazon.co.uk/SHiZAK-Perfect-Cosmetics-...
I think those would work nicely though.
Arun_D said:
Through much online advice, including this very thread, I've recently swapped out our well loved Nespresso Creatista for a Gaggia Classic Pro. The main motivator was the upturn in pod consumption in lockdown which made me look at if I could spend similar per month for a better result, and take advantage of the huge range of roasters we seem to be blessed with in the UK.
As per 1's post above, after the event, I'd be kidding myelf if I really do save money longterm now I have all the required kit, and of course there's much more effort involved, especially at the start. However, I really enjoy getting into the method and improving technique. For me, the result in a MUCH better end-product was pretty much instant (terrible pun), and that's been with plodding along with pre-ground and a pressurised basket whilst I wait to pick up a used grinder this evening to keep me going whilst I wait to get a Niche or similar.
However, there is absolutely no denying Nespresso's convenience, and I'd be lying if I said there isn't a used Inissia machine next to the manual setup for those times where we want decent enough coffee at a press of a button.
Agree, it's all about levels and expectations isn't it.As per 1's post above, after the event, I'd be kidding myelf if I really do save money longterm now I have all the required kit, and of course there's much more effort involved, especially at the start. However, I really enjoy getting into the method and improving technique. For me, the result in a MUCH better end-product was pretty much instant (terrible pun), and that's been with plodding along with pre-ground and a pressurised basket whilst I wait to pick up a used grinder this evening to keep me going whilst I wait to get a Niche or similar.
However, there is absolutely no denying Nespresso's convenience, and I'd be lying if I said there isn't a used Inissia machine next to the manual setup for those times where we want decent enough coffee at a press of a button.
Edited by Arun_D on Thursday 25th February 17:11
I have both Nespresso machines, and I use one in the office.
Taste is subjective,but for people who enjoy their coffee there is a scale.
If 1 is freeze dried Maxwell House, and 10 is the results Parella is likely getting, I'll be hitting an 8 with my Gaggia/Niche pairing. Nespreeso is a 4, Bean to Cup is 5-6 and so on.
If you have happy paying 50p per shot for a Nespresso, go for it. I am, and I do in the office.
I know it's pretty bad, but it beats Nescafe any day and its quick and easy.
Anyone expecting more from it is deluded.
paralla said:
Tyre Smoke said:
Me too.
What an abnoxious bunch of stuck up aholes.
Cheers for restoring normal service RTT.What an abnoxious bunch of stuck up a
holes.It’s much nicer without the “ abnoxiousnous” of earlier today.
Im a Nespresso user currently, but I have learnt loads from this thread, and may well take the leap when we get moved.
With spending more time at home I’ve been drinking more coffee than usual. I’ve got a Francis Francis X1 which I was gifted and am loathed to upgrade it just yet as IMO I can get a decent Flat White from it. I used to always buy Illy coffee but have started using online roasteries - Chimney Fire, Smith St, Perky Blenders. Also started using the Aeropress (inverted method) which was languishing in the cupboard. Have a V60 dripper also but not tried it yet.
Most coffee tastes fine to me in a flat white from the machine - even Aldi (or maybe Lidl) which was very cheap. In the Aero press the differences are much more pronounced - a couple of them I didn’t like but they’re fine when adding a load of frothed milk.
I’ve found this thread really useful. Started using bottled water in the X1 and also keen to buy a grinder so I can adjust the grind to the brew method - atm I use espresso grind in the aeropress which I’m sure is a no-no.
Most coffee tastes fine to me in a flat white from the machine - even Aldi (or maybe Lidl) which was very cheap. In the Aero press the differences are much more pronounced - a couple of them I didn’t like but they’re fine when adding a load of frothed milk.
I’ve found this thread really useful. Started using bottled water in the X1 and also keen to buy a grinder so I can adjust the grind to the brew method - atm I use espresso grind in the aeropress which I’m sure is a no-no.
Bill said:
Turn7 said:
TBF, he wasnt exactly treated well.....
This. The obnoxiousness wasn't him. To quote Ted: Raise the bar, chaps!PS I'm one of the moderators.
Paralla, less of yesterday please.
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