White Wine appreciation & pictures thread
Discussion
Its not exactly a surprise given how many families build a presence in the wine industry, but wasn’t aware of the family connection with Bodegas Aleanna, so thanks for pointing that out. So far I’ve only had one bottle out of a case of 'Gran Enemigo' Gualtallary, can’t remember the vintage, that was very enjoyable (will probably try another this year to see how they’re developing).
Don’t mistake the off dry Alsace/Germans as being Sauternes sweet. They’ve just got a hint of residual sugar rather than being fully loaded (although there are some, especially the “vendage tardive” (late harvest) wines that are) and nudges the flavour profile slightly. People either seem to love or hate them but I personally think that a well aged Riesling can be early special.
Yquem is always held out as the ultimate sweet wine, and often seems to get brought out because it’s Yquem, but I’d be wary of putting it on too much of a pedestal as there will be occasions when what yquem offers isn’t what you’re looking for. For example, Klein Constantia’s Vin de Constance is an excellent sweet wine but made without botrytis (“noble rot”) and a very different flavour profile as a result.
I sometimes regret not having more dry Burgundian whites in the cellar, but issues around premature oxidation put me off buying/ageing these and it’s only been in recent years that I’ve been making an effort to start buying a few more, even if ageing them can be a gamble. There’s still much enjoyment to be had from the younger ones (and a great deal to explore in that region alone). I do however try to avoid red burgs/Pinot Noirs in general. Yet to have one that blows me away, and live in constant fear of falling down that particular rabbit hole of geekiness (and these days, financial ruin).
Not sure if they still do them, but Berry’s used to occasionally put on “long lunches” for clients where everyone would take a bottle of something interesting. One of those was my first introduction to Guigal’s La Doriane (Condrieu) which, seeing as how we have people willing to push the boat out a bit and given the quality of 19/20, is well worth a mention. I think I paid around £60 for the 19’s when they were first released.
Don’t mistake the off dry Alsace/Germans as being Sauternes sweet. They’ve just got a hint of residual sugar rather than being fully loaded (although there are some, especially the “vendage tardive” (late harvest) wines that are) and nudges the flavour profile slightly. People either seem to love or hate them but I personally think that a well aged Riesling can be early special.
Yquem is always held out as the ultimate sweet wine, and often seems to get brought out because it’s Yquem, but I’d be wary of putting it on too much of a pedestal as there will be occasions when what yquem offers isn’t what you’re looking for. For example, Klein Constantia’s Vin de Constance is an excellent sweet wine but made without botrytis (“noble rot”) and a very different flavour profile as a result.
I sometimes regret not having more dry Burgundian whites in the cellar, but issues around premature oxidation put me off buying/ageing these and it’s only been in recent years that I’ve been making an effort to start buying a few more, even if ageing them can be a gamble. There’s still much enjoyment to be had from the younger ones (and a great deal to explore in that region alone). I do however try to avoid red burgs/Pinot Noirs in general. Yet to have one that blows me away, and live in constant fear of falling down that particular rabbit hole of geekiness (and these days, financial ruin).
Not sure if they still do them, but Berry’s used to occasionally put on “long lunches” for clients where everyone would take a bottle of something interesting. One of those was my first introduction to Guigal’s La Doriane (Condrieu) which, seeing as how we have people willing to push the boat out a bit and given the quality of 19/20, is well worth a mention. I think I paid around £60 for the 19’s when they were first released.
LooneyTunes said:
I sometimes regret not having more dry Burgundian whites in the cellar, but issues around premature oxidation put me off buying/ageing these and it’s only been in recent years that I’ve been making an effort to start buying a few more, even if ageing them can be a gamble. There’s still much enjoyment to be had from the younger ones (and a great deal to explore in that region alone).
Opened a 2012 Vire Clesse recently. Previous bottles had been outstanding. Disappointing to find it odd dark and sherried. There's some great white coming out of Burgundy but I'm not breaking the bank on it or leaving it as long.LooneyTunes said:
I do however try to avoid red burgs/Pinot Noirs in general. Yet to have one that blows me away, and live in constant fear of falling down that particular rabbit hole of geekiness (and these days, financial ruin).
I think it was Hugh Johnson who described finding good Red Burgundy/PN as an occupation for wealthy masochists.Thing is, PN is such a great food wine and for someone who likes game, roast chicken and stinky cheese it's irreplaceable
There are good value producers. The small ones start off sometimes buying in small parcels of grapes here an there and once successful can get a bit of land and prices start to take off.
The village wines I was buying 20 years ago are way out of my league now. I have found good value PN from Charles van Canneyt and Village wines of David Duband are good.
Decent Beaujolais is my new go to for serious wines from near that region that pair well with food
All true ^^… although my focus for still wines has always been more on Rhone/Bordeaux, so can usually find something for most dishes or occasions, and latterly Argentina and Italy.
There have been a few on the other side of the burgundy price rises who have done very nicely. Chap I used to work with us a serious burg head and decided to invest the school fees, for the children he didn’t have, in good red burgs. We’re talking DRCs, Roumiers, etc before they went crazy. I know he spent a serious sum at the time, but must now be sat on a fortune given what they’re worth today. Anyway, that’s drifting off topic on a thread that’s supposed to be about whites!
I think the oldest white burg I have left is a 2005 Fevre PC Chablis. Will open it sooner rather than later but one opened a couple of years ago was ok. Will happily age white Hermitage well beyond that but they’re another one I wish I’d bought more of in the past (even though the prices then looked toppy).
There have been a few on the other side of the burgundy price rises who have done very nicely. Chap I used to work with us a serious burg head and decided to invest the school fees, for the children he didn’t have, in good red burgs. We’re talking DRCs, Roumiers, etc before they went crazy. I know he spent a serious sum at the time, but must now be sat on a fortune given what they’re worth today. Anyway, that’s drifting off topic on a thread that’s supposed to be about whites!
I think the oldest white burg I have left is a 2005 Fevre PC Chablis. Will open it sooner rather than later but one opened a couple of years ago was ok. Will happily age white Hermitage well beyond that but they’re another one I wish I’d bought more of in the past (even though the prices then looked toppy).
LooneyTunes said:
Its not exactly a surprise given how many families build a presence in the wine industry, but wasn’t aware of the family connection with Bodegas Aleanna, so thanks for pointing that out. So far I’ve only had one bottle out of a case of 'Gran Enemigo' Gualtallary, can’t remember the vintage, that was very enjoyable (will probably try another this year to see how they’re developing).
Don’t mistake the off dry Alsace/Germans as being Sauternes sweet. They’ve just got a hint of residual sugar rather than being fully loaded (although there are some, especially the “vendage tardive” (late harvest) wines that are) and nudges the flavour profile slightly. People either seem to love or hate them but I personally think that a well aged Riesling can be early special.
Yquem is always held out as the ultimate sweet wine, and often seems to get brought out because it’s Yquem, but I’d be wary of putting it on too much of a pedestal as there will be occasions when what yquem offers isn’t what you’re looking for. For example, Klein Constantia’s Vin de Constance is an excellent sweet wine but made without botrytis (“noble rot”) and a very different flavour profile as a result.
I sometimes regret not having more dry Burgundian whites in the cellar, but issues around premature oxidation put me off buying/ageing these and it’s only been in recent years that I’ve been making an effort to start buying a few more, even if ageing them can be a gamble. There’s still much enjoyment to be had from the younger ones (and a great deal to explore in that region alone). I do however try to avoid red burgs/Pinot Noirs in general. Yet to have one that blows me away, and live in constant fear of falling down that particular rabbit hole of geekiness (and these days, financial ruin).
Not sure if they still do them, but Berry’s used to occasionally put on “long lunches” for clients where everyone would take a bottle of something interesting. One of those was my first introduction to Guigal’s La Doriane (Condrieu) which, seeing as how we have people willing to push the boat out a bit and given the quality of 19/20, is well worth a mention. I think I paid around 60 for the 19’s when they were first released.
It's obvious once you know and of course, Adrianna Vineyard is named after her. I rate both Catena Zapata and Bodegas Aleanna highly although the former is much more steered towards Malbec and the latter Cabernet Franc. I enjoyed both of the Gran Enemigo Gualtallary I have had (2014 and 2016 I think) although I still prefer the Nicolas Catena Zapata. I currently have a half case of the 2016 cellaring - I believe 2016 was the first year they introduced Cabernet Franc into the blend so am looking forward to trying those in the coming years. Don’t mistake the off dry Alsace/Germans as being Sauternes sweet. They’ve just got a hint of residual sugar rather than being fully loaded (although there are some, especially the “vendage tardive” (late harvest) wines that are) and nudges the flavour profile slightly. People either seem to love or hate them but I personally think that a well aged Riesling can be early special.
Yquem is always held out as the ultimate sweet wine, and often seems to get brought out because it’s Yquem, but I’d be wary of putting it on too much of a pedestal as there will be occasions when what yquem offers isn’t what you’re looking for. For example, Klein Constantia’s Vin de Constance is an excellent sweet wine but made without botrytis (“noble rot”) and a very different flavour profile as a result.
I sometimes regret not having more dry Burgundian whites in the cellar, but issues around premature oxidation put me off buying/ageing these and it’s only been in recent years that I’ve been making an effort to start buying a few more, even if ageing them can be a gamble. There’s still much enjoyment to be had from the younger ones (and a great deal to explore in that region alone). I do however try to avoid red burgs/Pinot Noirs in general. Yet to have one that blows me away, and live in constant fear of falling down that particular rabbit hole of geekiness (and these days, financial ruin).
Not sure if they still do them, but Berry’s used to occasionally put on “long lunches” for clients where everyone would take a bottle of something interesting. One of those was my first introduction to Guigal’s La Doriane (Condrieu) which, seeing as how we have people willing to push the boat out a bit and given the quality of 19/20, is well worth a mention. I think I paid around 60 for the 19’s when they were first released.
I am very much an all or nothing person. I either want dry or sweet and am not too fussed with the middle of the road level sweetness as I find they don't accompany food as well as the fully dry or fully sweet options. I'm not really a wine without food drinker with the exception being the odd glass of PX.
I know what you mean with Yquem and, as much as I would like to try it one day, I am happy with Climens/Rieussec and when I want to spend a bit more I am looking at Istvan Szepsy not Yquem. Tokaji is, to me, the ultimate dessert wine and if I was looking at Yquem prices I would be paying the extra and buying a bottle of Esszencia instead.
I have very few whites in the cellar currently but have started increasing them of late. I also quite enjoy the odd Rosado or Clarete. Too many choices not enough time or money.
Arranguez said:
The nicest white I had in a while was a Chablis Grand Cru Vaudesir by Thierry Laffay. Was about 50 and was sensational. Love Chablis.
Yes, I think if I had to choose my very last glass of wine it would be a PC Chablis, several candidates but 2000 Laurent Tribut would do - I find the oak of the GC rather spoils the Chablis character too much, if I want that I'd be looking at Cote D'Or instead.InductionRoar said:
It's obvious once you know and of course, Adrianna Vineyard is named after her. I rate both Catena Zapata and Bodegas Aleanna highly although the former is much more steered towards Malbec and the latter Cabernet Franc. I enjoyed both of the Gran Enemigo Gualtallary I have had (2014 and 2016 I think) although I still prefer the Nicolas Catena Zapata. I currently have a half case of the 2016 cellaring - I believe 2016 was the first year they introduced Cabernet Franc into the blend so am looking forward to trying those in the coming years.
I am very much an all or nothing person. I either want dry or sweet and am not too fussed with the middle of the road level sweetness as I find they don't accompany food as well as the fully dry or fully sweet options. I'm not really a wine without food drinker with the exception being the odd glass of PX.
I know what you mean with Yquem and, as much as I would like to try it one day, I am happy with Climens/Rieussec and when I want to spend a bit more I am looking at Istvan Szepsy not Yquem. Tokaji is, to me, the ultimate dessert wine and if I was looking at Yquem prices I would be paying the extra and buying a bottle of Esszencia instead.
I have very few whites in the cellar currently but have started increasing them of late. I also quite enjoy the odd Rosado or Clarete. Too many choices not enough time or money.
The good news about the NC Zapata is that they seem to be able to carry a bit of age. Picked up some 05s of the Cab Sauv and they’re accessible but will evolve further over time. I am very much an all or nothing person. I either want dry or sweet and am not too fussed with the middle of the road level sweetness as I find they don't accompany food as well as the fully dry or fully sweet options. I'm not really a wine without food drinker with the exception being the odd glass of PX.
I know what you mean with Yquem and, as much as I would like to try it one day, I am happy with Climens/Rieussec and when I want to spend a bit more I am looking at Istvan Szepsy not Yquem. Tokaji is, to me, the ultimate dessert wine and if I was looking at Yquem prices I would be paying the extra and buying a bottle of Esszencia instead.
I have very few whites in the cellar currently but have started increasing them of late. I also quite enjoy the odd Rosado or Clarete. Too many choices not enough time or money.
Back on the whites… not had an Esszencia just yet. Keep meaning to but it just hasn’t happened.
Rieussec also tends to be one of my main go to Sauternes (along with La Tour Blanche, although others also make an appearance from time to time), with some of the best vintages being extremely good.
LooneyTunes said:
I think the oldest white burg I have left is a 2005 Fevre PC Chablis. Will open it sooner rather than later but one opened a couple of years ago was ok. Will happily age white Hermitage well beyond that but they’re another one I wish I’d bought more of in the past (even though the prices then looked toppy).
For me oldest I have Is 2005 Meursault, about a dozen bottles left, still drinking ok but about to collapse. 
Some older white burgs in my cellar in France (in burgundy) ‘03/‘02/‘99. Premier crus.
Morvan said:
Raveneau are my favourite Chab Prems. Had this early march. Drinking really well.
Very nice! And not easy to find. If we’re into rarer beast territory, I think the best I can offer is Silex (RIP, M. Dagueneau) or a handful of Sauzets. Used to buy Leflaive but not for a few years. Also love an aged Meursault too but sadly I think the cellar is bare. 
Real shame that there aren’t more ex-chateau late releases like you get in Bdx but the scale of operation is quite different!Been a few years since I took a trip round Burgundy and this thread is making me feel like another is long overdue!
If you’re shopping at the Raveneau level and also like white CNDP, the latest couple of Beaucastel VVs are well worth a look if you can still find them. Took delivery of three ‘19s recently and, as I’m fortunate to have more in storage, couldn’t resist opening one. It is very very good indeed. Going to be interesting to see it evolve and looking forward to trying the ‘20s.
About 4 years ago in an effort to show Mrs Morvan that I appreciated her more than wine and cars we had a day/night out in Dijon. She drinks mainly white so we decided to drink Louis Latour white wines for the day.
Had these two with lunch. An '86 and a '10 Corton Charlemagne.
A wander back to the hotel for a little rest with a few glasses of cremant de bourgogne en route.
Early evening in little jazz bar, '13 Pouilly - Vinzelles and a '11 Pernand Vergelesses. Pouilly bottle empty in the background.
Had these two with lunch. An '86 and a '10 Corton Charlemagne.
A wander back to the hotel for a little rest with a few glasses of cremant de bourgogne en route.
Early evening in little jazz bar, '13 Pouilly - Vinzelles and a '11 Pernand Vergelesses. Pouilly bottle empty in the background.
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