Temperature experiment
Discussion
Pferdestarke said:
shirt said:
Pferdestarke said:
I lasted 30 minutes and have just devoured 3/4 of a small shoulder. It was soft, savoury, deeply flavoured with cumin, kolonji and black pepper and a delight to eat.
Recommended.
The pic did not materialise. Sorry
Who is going to try some low-temp cooking next?
i fell asleep when i got home so my half leg is defrosting at the moment. i don't know whether to put in in the oven tonight with some sort of cumin/herb combo. or marinate it overnight and cook it tomorrow. :chinsscratch:Recommended.
The pic did not materialise. Sorry
Who is going to try some low-temp cooking next?
Let us know.
i should start this post by stating i honestly can't remember my last culinary disaster. with that in mind, last night's temp. experiment was a complete fubar......
i sliced two red onions and put these into a small ceramic roasting dish, ground in a small amount of sea salt and a more generous amount of black pepper, a finely chopped 30g pack of deseeded black olives, 2 bay leaves and 250ml of white wine.
the lamb was perfectly defrosted when i got home so all i did was stab it a few times and insert sprigs of rosemary. i crushed a clove of garlic into some olive oil and added marjoram, fennel seeds and cumin seeds that had taken a brief pounding with a pestle & mortar. this was rubbed into the meat with the remainder used to top off the fat with the intention of forming a crust. all easy and good so far:
i wrapped the dish in tinfoil making sure to leave an airgap above the meat. the oven was set to 80degC and the lamb left in there for 5hrs.
after 5hrs i took the meat out [slow cooking has the advantage of not needing oven gloves] and removed the tinfoil. the smell was simply amazing and i regret not tasting it there & then. it was a perfect shade of pink and swimming in the base for my intended jus. i ramped the oven up to 180degC with the intention of leaving it in there for an hour to crisp up.
you can tell whats coming can't you? i'd been to the gym during the slow cooking stage, then had a long bath and settled down to a dvd and a few whiskeys. after putting the meat in i returned to the sofa, and woke up 3 hrs later...........
i'll be the first to say it - FAIL! what a complete and total waste. i could have cried, i've never been so upset over £6 of meat.
i was still curious however and proceeded to slice into it [no point resting it!] and flesh fell from bone and flaked into chunks with zero effort. whilst now being almost totally devoid of moisture, it was really flavoursome and the onions that had escaped the nuclear onslaught by sheltering beneath the lamb were simply heaven.
i had intended to bring it in for lunch and create a sandwich, but it didn't last the journey in as i ate the whole lot before i got to work. if thats what it was like after a cremation, i can't wait for a second [alert/awake] attempt!
ps - made a 10min chicken jalfrezi in place of my planned slap up roast. a small consolation but tasty nontheless.
i sliced two red onions and put these into a small ceramic roasting dish, ground in a small amount of sea salt and a more generous amount of black pepper, a finely chopped 30g pack of deseeded black olives, 2 bay leaves and 250ml of white wine.
the lamb was perfectly defrosted when i got home so all i did was stab it a few times and insert sprigs of rosemary. i crushed a clove of garlic into some olive oil and added marjoram, fennel seeds and cumin seeds that had taken a brief pounding with a pestle & mortar. this was rubbed into the meat with the remainder used to top off the fat with the intention of forming a crust. all easy and good so far:
i wrapped the dish in tinfoil making sure to leave an airgap above the meat. the oven was set to 80degC and the lamb left in there for 5hrs.
after 5hrs i took the meat out [slow cooking has the advantage of not needing oven gloves
] and removed the tinfoil. the smell was simply amazing and i regret not tasting it there & then. it was a perfect shade of pink and swimming in the base for my intended jus. i ramped the oven up to 180degC with the intention of leaving it in there for an hour to crisp up.you can tell whats coming can't you? i'd been to the gym during the slow cooking stage, then had a long bath and settled down to a dvd and a few whiskeys. after putting the meat in i returned to the sofa, and woke up 3 hrs later...........
i'll be the first to say it - FAIL! what a complete and total waste. i could have cried, i've never been so upset over £6 of meat.
i was still curious however and proceeded to slice into it [no point resting it!] and flesh fell from bone and flaked into chunks with zero effort. whilst now being almost totally devoid of moisture, it was really flavoursome and the onions that had escaped the nuclear onslaught by sheltering beneath the lamb were simply heaven.
i had intended to bring it in for lunch and create a sandwich, but it didn't last the journey in as i ate the whole lot before i got to work. if thats what it was like after a cremation, i can't wait for a second [alert/awake] attempt!
ps - made a 10min chicken jalfrezi in place of my planned slap up roast. a small consolation but tasty nontheless.
Edited by shirt on Wednesday 18th February 09:54
Well, inspired by this thread, I've currently got a pair of nicely matured rib-eyes in the oven at 65C.
I oiled and peppered them first and loosely wrapped them in foil.
I also put a tray of water in the bottom of the over to prevent any possible drying out.
I'm reckoning on 2 hours, then 30 secs each side in the skillet.
Cajun wedges, garlic mushrooms and some roasted toms. Will report back tomorrow.
I oiled and peppered them first and loosely wrapped them in foil.
I also put a tray of water in the bottom of the over to prevent any possible drying out.
I'm reckoning on 2 hours, then 30 secs each side in the skillet.
Cajun wedges, garlic mushrooms and some roasted toms. Will report back tomorrow.
I have bought in a half-shoulder of lamb.
I'm going to try this is a well sealed pot at 80C with some wine in the bottom for six or seven hours. I'll take it out of the wine and roast it for 20 minutes as hot as the oven will go just before serving. Hope to make a rich gravy out of the wine.
We'll see.
I'm going to try this is a well sealed pot at 80C with some wine in the bottom for six or seven hours. I'll take it out of the wine and roast it for 20 minutes as hot as the oven will go just before serving. Hope to make a rich gravy out of the wine.
We'll see.
Nefarious said:
Well, inspired by this thread, I've currently got a pair of nicely matured rib-eyes in the oven at 65C.
I oiled and peppered them first and loosely wrapped them in foil.
I also put a tray of water in the bottom of the over to prevent any possible drying out.
I'm reckoning on 2 hours, then 30 secs each side in the skillet.
Cajun wedges, garlic mushrooms and some roasted toms. Will report back tomorrow.
Please do! I really fancy some good steak done this way. I'm hoping for ultra-soft-succulent pink meat top to bottom with a nice seared outside!I oiled and peppered them first and loosely wrapped them in foil.
I also put a tray of water in the bottom of the over to prevent any possible drying out.
I'm reckoning on 2 hours, then 30 secs each side in the skillet.
Cajun wedges, garlic mushrooms and some roasted toms. Will report back tomorrow.
Verdict - successful proof of concept, but needs work.
The meat was a smidgen overcooked,which I put down to two factors:
1) I couldn't get the oven to sustain a temp lower than about 70-75C with the lower oven on for the wedges/mushrooms/toms.
2) The texture of the meat after roasting was very soft and it tricked me into giving it about a minute each side in the skillet - mistake.
Second time round, I think I'll pre-heat the top oven, but then let the rediual heat from the bottom oven do the work (I reckon 60-65C is the ideal temp). The steaks really only then need literally showing the hot pan - in....out...rest...serve.
This could be really *really* good with a bit of practice...
The meat was a smidgen overcooked,which I put down to two factors:
1) I couldn't get the oven to sustain a temp lower than about 70-75C with the lower oven on for the wedges/mushrooms/toms.
2) The texture of the meat after roasting was very soft and it tricked me into giving it about a minute each side in the skillet - mistake.
Second time round, I think I'll pre-heat the top oven, but then let the rediual heat from the bottom oven do the work (I reckon 60-65C is the ideal temp). The steaks really only then need literally showing the hot pan - in....out...rest...serve.
This could be really *really* good with a bit of practice...
Nefarious said:
Verdict - successful proof of concept, but needs work.
The meat was a smidgen overcooked,which I put down to two factors:
1) I couldn't get the oven to sustain a temp lower than about 70-75C with the lower oven on for the wedges/mushrooms/toms.
2) The texture of the meat after roasting was very soft and it tricked me into giving it about a minute each side in the skillet - mistake.
Second time round, I think I'll pre-heat the top oven, but then let the rediual heat from the bottom oven do the work (I reckon 60-65C is the ideal temp). The steaks really only then need literally showing the hot pan - in....out...rest...serve.
This could be really *really* good with a bit of practice...
Thnks for that! Very useful report. I hope to try steaks next week. Lamb tomorrow...The meat was a smidgen overcooked,which I put down to two factors:
1) I couldn't get the oven to sustain a temp lower than about 70-75C with the lower oven on for the wedges/mushrooms/toms.
2) The texture of the meat after roasting was very soft and it tricked me into giving it about a minute each side in the skillet - mistake.
Second time round, I think I'll pre-heat the top oven, but then let the rediual heat from the bottom oven do the work (I reckon 60-65C is the ideal temp). The steaks really only then need literally showing the hot pan - in....out...rest...serve.
This could be really *really* good with a bit of practice...
Nefarious said:
Well, inspired by this thread, I've currently got a pair of nicely matured rib-eyes in the oven at 65C.
I oiled and peppered them first and loosely wrapped them in foil.
I also put a tray of water in the bottom of the over to prevent any possible drying out.
I'm reckoning on 2 hours, then 30 secs each side in the skillet.
Cajun wedges, garlic mushrooms and some roasted toms. Will report back tomorrow.
When I've seen this done (by Heston Blumenthal) he vac-packed the meat and slow-cooked it in an autoclave. In my experience, the temperature gauges on domestic ovens are not accurate enough to attempt cooking within such a precise range. I oiled and peppered them first and loosely wrapped them in foil.
I also put a tray of water in the bottom of the over to prevent any possible drying out.
I'm reckoning on 2 hours, then 30 secs each side in the skillet.
Cajun wedges, garlic mushrooms and some roasted toms. Will report back tomorrow.
I have an idea, which is to accurately assess the temperature of my slow cooker on various settings with an external thermometer, then try the vac-pack method.
My automatic oven timer should have started my lamb in red wine "roast" at 80C at 2:00pm. First time I've used it. Hope to goodness (1) my house isn't burning down and (2) it's actually on and cooking! I can always "fast" roast it when I get home...
I'm planning on taking the lamb out of the wine to brown it off at the end and I'll be making a red wine gravy. So all I have to do when I get home is roast up some potatoes, steam veg and finish the meat/gravy.
Now - my Mrs wants RIBS for her birthday on Saturday. What do you reckon? Slow roast them until meltingly soft and then glaze and hot cook to brown the glaze off?
I'm planning on taking the lamb out of the wine to brown it off at the end and I'll be making a red wine gravy. So all I have to do when I get home is roast up some potatoes, steam veg and finish the meat/gravy.
Now - my Mrs wants RIBS for her birthday on Saturday. What do you reckon? Slow roast them until meltingly soft and then glaze and hot cook to brown the glaze off?
Don said:
Now - my Mrs wants RIBS for her birthday on Saturday. What do you reckon? Slow roast them until meltingly soft and then glaze and hot cook to brown the glaze off?
Marinade the ribs for 4-6 hours, cook them in the oven in the marinade, remove from marinade & finish off in the oven while the marinade is reducing to make a good thick sauce. Would you like a detailed recipe?mrsshpub said:
Don said:
Now - my Mrs wants RIBS for her birthday on Saturday. What do you reckon? Slow roast them until meltingly soft and then glaze and hot cook to brown the glaze off?
Marinade the ribs for 4-6 hours, cook them in the oven in the marinade, remove from marinade & finish off in the oven while the marinade is reducing to make a good thick sauce. Would you like a detailed recipe?Where do you buy your ribs? And what sort of ribs do you buy? I'm thinking pork..
I've made similar lamb, but on the hob instead of in the oven.
Very large saucepan/pot with a tight fitting lid (IMPORTANT)
Shoulder of lamb seasoned with plenty of salt and ground cinnamon (really!)
Put on the hob on a LOW SIMMER for minimum of five hours.
Turn every hour or so. Don't bother basting. After three hours it will still not look ready, but don't lose your nerve or turn up the heat.
It will be melting and tender, so good that in my house this recipe is called Superlamb!
Very large saucepan/pot with a tight fitting lid (IMPORTANT)
Shoulder of lamb seasoned with plenty of salt and ground cinnamon (really!)
Put on the hob on a LOW SIMMER for minimum of five hours.
Turn every hour or so. Don't bother basting. After three hours it will still not look ready, but don't lose your nerve or turn up the heat.
It will be melting and tender, so good that in my house this recipe is called Superlamb!
OK. After five and half hours my 80C lamb in wine was - not cooked, Interestingly it was sort of cooked. Jut 25 minutes of 200C cooking produced meltingly tender meat to go with the rest of dinner. So - a result IMO. Dinner turned out OK - a success.
BUT! The wine bath was still alcoholic. IMO - don't use wine. A stock would be better. It was very tasty - but actually not as tasty as I was hoping. I'd consider more in the way of "dry" flavourings on my next attempt. And I might even raise the temp for the slow cooking from 80C to 90C...given the five and a half hour cooking time.
But all things considered - next time I will go for longer again - and at the same temp. Coupled with a short "finishing" at something like 220C. But no wine. Perhaps 8 or 9 hours at 80C.
I'll post back with results...
BUT! The wine bath was still alcoholic. IMO - don't use wine. A stock would be better. It was very tasty - but actually not as tasty as I was hoping. I'd consider more in the way of "dry" flavourings on my next attempt. And I might even raise the temp for the slow cooking from 80C to 90C...given the five and a half hour cooking time.
But all things considered - next time I will go for longer again - and at the same temp. Coupled with a short "finishing" at something like 220C. But no wine. Perhaps 8 or 9 hours at 80C.
I'll post back with results...
Don said:
mrsshpub said:
Don said:
Now - my Mrs wants RIBS for her birthday on Saturday. What do you reckon? Slow roast them until meltingly soft and then glaze and hot cook to brown the glaze off?
Marinade the ribs for 4-6 hours, cook them in the oven in the marinade, remove from marinade & finish off in the oven while the marinade is reducing to make a good thick sauce. Would you like a detailed recipe?To serve 2 people quite generously for a main course:
900g-1kg meaty pork ribs
Marinade:
3 tbsp tomato ketchup
1 tbsp runny honey
1 tbsp soy sauce
1 tbsp white wine vinegar
1 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
1 tbsp tomato puree
150 ml stock (I make it with a whole low salt vegetable stock cube, to give lots of flavour and given the amount of salt in the soy sauce but that's just a preference)
Garnish:
Thinly sliced spring onions
You'll also need:
A big enough non-metal oven proof dish to take all the ribs closely packed & something to cover it (i.e. a Pyrex-type dish + lid or tin foil)
A big enough baking tray to take all the ribs — plus tin foil to line it, to save the washing up
A large saucepan to reduce the sauce in
A spatter guard — the sauce REALLY SPITS when it's reducing
Mix the marinade ingredients together in the non-metal oven-proof dish.
Trim any excess fat off the ribs & arrange in the marinade, making sure the they are all covered.
Cover & leave in a cool place for 4-6 hours.
Cook in the marinade @ 200C / Gas 6 for about 40 minutes.
Remove the ribs onto the baking tray, arranging so they're stood 'on their edges' & not touching each other, if possible, & bake at the same temperature for approx. 20-25 minutes, until the edges are beginning to go dark brown. Turn part way through to get an even colour.
While the ribs are cooking, reduce the marinade in a big saucepan to make the sauce. It will need to be boiled quite vigorously & occasionally removed from the heat & swirled gently/carefully to stop it sticking (hence the 'big' saucepan). I like to take it down to a 'pouring cream-type' consistency. This reduction process will make a SERIOUS mess if you don't have a spatter guard, especially as the sauce thickens — & it will still spit sometimes once removed from the heat — so don't go anywhere near it with a clean white shirt on!
Remove the cooked ribs to a serving plate, pour the sauce over & garnish.
The original recipe suggests serving this with rice. I find it goes quite well with boiled floury potatoes & an assortment of steamed vegetables...... OK, it's not 'traditional' — but they do mop up the sauce very well.
This recipe can, of course, be multiplied up to serve more.
Don said:
Where do you buy your ribs? And what sort of ribs do you buy? I'm thinking pork..
Our local butcher is a good source of pork ribs. I've also had some very acceptable ones from the supermarkets — but last time I bought them Tesco had a strange pricing quirk where whole racks of (often smaller, less meaty) ribs — which would need cutting up for this recipe — were more expensive per kilo than pre-cut (often bigger) ribs.Edited by mrsshpub on Friday 20th February 07:27
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