How do you know a 'good' wine?
Discussion
I'm not sure it it's a good thing but I drink enough wine now that I'm very confident in knowing what I like and have sampled ahem...a great deal over the past couple of years.
The thing is, if I didn't know what a wine cost I really don't think I could tell what a good or a bad wine is, I'm not talking so much about personal tasting preference but being able to tell the difference between a £3.99/£6.99/£24.99 bottle.
Does it really matter? I had a cheapo Valpol from Morrisons the other night which was v v nice, I liked it and ultimately that is what counts but it would be nice to be able to tell why it's expensive...or not!
The thing is, if I didn't know what a wine cost I really don't think I could tell what a good or a bad wine is, I'm not talking so much about personal tasting preference but being able to tell the difference between a £3.99/£6.99/£24.99 bottle.
Does it really matter? I had a cheapo Valpol from Morrisons the other night which was v v nice, I liked it and ultimately that is what counts but it would be nice to be able to tell why it's expensive...or not!
As above, if you like it, then that's a definite start!
You should probably try a couple of bottles of decent wine alongside some plonk and see if you can tell the difference.
White wines are much more subtle and drinking cold wine does make finding any subtle tones hard to find - whereas red is usually much easier.
But then where to you start?! Burgundy wines, for example, are completely different to Bordeaux - they should have a muddy or 'farmyardy' smell, whereas a good Bordeaux will be a deeper fruit.
You have to experiment a bit!
The most important thing by far is that you like it. We're all different, so there is no true 'best', though there is generally some agreement. You could get a book such as 'Hugh Johnson' each year, or maybe go do a course?
In a restaurant it is much easier- they are carefully ranked for you, just look at the numbers to the right of the '£' sign!
In a restaurant it is much easier- they are carefully ranked for you, just look at the numbers to the right of the '£' sign!
There's a lot snobbery and bulls
t talked about wine. The only questions are
Did you like it?
Are you happy to pay the price asked?
After that you can go into more detail.
Did you like it? Why? As much as another one? More or less than that one? Why?
Are you happy to pay? Do you prefer a wine that costs less?
Sadly although the human palate varies considerably there are some core tastes people enjoy more. Hence the finest wines (the tastiest ones!) tend to cost more. Once a wine is both tasty and RARE then it is likely to cost a LOT.
But wine, like art, is subjective and intensely personal. So all that matters is that you like it (or not) and are happy to pay (or not).
t talked about wine. The only questions areDid you like it?
Are you happy to pay the price asked?
After that you can go into more detail.
Did you like it? Why? As much as another one? More or less than that one? Why?
Are you happy to pay? Do you prefer a wine that costs less?
Sadly although the human palate varies considerably there are some core tastes people enjoy more. Hence the finest wines (the tastiest ones!) tend to cost more. Once a wine is both tasty and RARE then it is likely to cost a LOT.
But wine, like art, is subjective and intensely personal. So all that matters is that you like it (or not) and are happy to pay (or not).
raf_gti said:
Does it really matter? I had a cheapo Valpol from Morrisons the other night which was v v nice, I liked it and ultimately that is what counts but it would be nice to be able to tell why it's expensive...or not!
Ahhh. What makes wine expensive. Again it's a few things: 1) It's selling well. The market will bear a higher cost. So retailers put the price up.
2) It's rare and always sells out. It's made in limited quantity. Demand outstrips supply so the price is probably going to be very high.
3) The winemaking and hence the costs of production can vary considerably. In general the more human effort that gets put in versus automated machinery the more expensive a wine will need to be to make the vineyard a profit. Costs that vary like this are:
Using people to carefully harvest the grapes by hand. You can have it done by Australian students for £30 a day such that only the fruit ends up in the press. Or you can simply tear the bunches off with a tractor and a cutting machine: you end up with stalks, slugs etc in the press but it costs sod all in comparison!
etc etc
As said above; if you like it, its good. Wine is a very personal thing and how boring the world would be if we all liked the same.
But I would say generally that a high quality wine can be determined by a couple of things:
1) the length - the amount of time the actual taste/flavours stay in your mouth after you've swalloved - and no girls.. this is not directed at you
2) Complexity - is the wine straight forward and non-dimensional OR does it have multiple layers og flavour, changing even after swallowing.
These are simple things to look out for and will generally determine the 'quality' of a certain wine.
Having said that - wine is obviously very subjective.
Keep drinking
But I would say generally that a high quality wine can be determined by a couple of things:
1) the length - the amount of time the actual taste/flavours stay in your mouth after you've swalloved - and no girls.. this is not directed at you
2) Complexity - is the wine straight forward and non-dimensional OR does it have multiple layers og flavour, changing even after swallowing.
These are simple things to look out for and will generally determine the 'quality' of a certain wine.
Having said that - wine is obviously very subjective.
Keep drinking
Sounds to me like the OP wants to move from blindly drinking (and enjoying) to actually understanding the wine.
You could try a tasting course, or a good book. The standard used to be "Le Gout de Vin" by Emile Peynaud (available in English as The Taste of Wine), and I believe Jancis Robinson has a similar book. A bit of guidance will help you start to identify the different elements and in turn which bits you like.
Continue with the field research. Lots of it. And gradually you'll build up knowledge of the different wine types/regions with a more detailed understanding of what you like.
You could try a tasting course, or a good book. The standard used to be "Le Gout de Vin" by Emile Peynaud (available in English as The Taste of Wine), and I believe Jancis Robinson has a similar book. A bit of guidance will help you start to identify the different elements and in turn which bits you like.
Continue with the field research. Lots of it. And gradually you'll build up knowledge of the different wine types/regions with a more detailed understanding of what you like.
HiRich said:
Sounds to me like the OP wants to move from blindly drinking (and enjoying) to actually understanding the wine.
You could try a tasting course, or a good book. The standard used to be "Le Gout de Vin" by Emile Peynaud (available in English as The Taste of Wine), and I believe Jancis Robinson has a similar book. A bit of guidance will help you start to identify the different elements and in turn which bits you like.
Continue with the field research. Lots of it. And gradually you'll build up knowledge of the different wine types/regions with a more detailed understanding of what you like.
yup You could try a tasting course, or a good book. The standard used to be "Le Gout de Vin" by Emile Peynaud (available in English as The Taste of Wine), and I believe Jancis Robinson has a similar book. A bit of guidance will help you start to identify the different elements and in turn which bits you like.
Continue with the field research. Lots of it. And gradually you'll build up knowledge of the different wine types/regions with a more detailed understanding of what you like.
I'm at the stage where I can (mostly) tell the difference between the different grapes and I generally get what I expect when I choose whatever style takes my fancy that night.
However what gets me is the difference between the styles, Rioja to me seems particulary 'different' between the various brands out there.
Join your local wine society.
There are lots of tasting groups up and down the country - you should find one you like easily enough. Our local one did a tasting once a month and you got to try ten wines. The wines were "presented" so it was a "led" tasting with the presenter commenting on each wine, telling you what to look out for, where it was made, by whom and so on.
Very informative even I did get "beyond" it after a few years.
There are lots of tasting groups up and down the country - you should find one you like easily enough. Our local one did a tasting once a month and you got to try ten wines. The wines were "presented" so it was a "led" tasting with the presenter commenting on each wine, telling you what to look out for, where it was made, by whom and so on.
Very informative even I did get "beyond" it after a few years.
For me, a good wine is one which I savour all the way to the bottom - and regret drinking the last drop.
With most wines, I will get bored/not care after maybe 3 glasses. If you find a wine that is still making you enjoy every drop after half a bottle, then that's a good wine. What that wine is will be entirely up to personal preference, red/white/sweet/French/new world etc.
I bought a serious slab of rib roast beef for lunch tomorrow. I may have to go shopping for some serious red, new world wine in the morning . . . Anyone know where I can get a couple of bottles of Grange for under £50 on a Sunday morning??
With most wines, I will get bored/not care after maybe 3 glasses. If you find a wine that is still making you enjoy every drop after half a bottle, then that's a good wine. What that wine is will be entirely up to personal preference, red/white/sweet/French/new world etc.
I bought a serious slab of rib roast beef for lunch tomorrow. I may have to go shopping for some serious red, new world wine in the morning . . . Anyone know where I can get a couple of bottles of Grange for under £50 on a Sunday morning??
Whoozit said:
For me, a good wine is one which I savour all the way to the bottom - and regret drinking the last drop.
With most wines, I will get bored/not care after maybe 3 glasses. If you find a wine that is still making you enjoy every drop after half a bottle, then that's a good wine. What that wine is will be entirely up to personal preference, red/white/sweet/French/new world etc.
I bought a serious slab of rib roast beef for lunch tomorrow. I may have to go shopping for some serious red, new world wine in the morning . . . Anyone know where I can get a couple of bottles of Grange for under £50 on a Sunday morning??
I doubt you'll find Grange for under £100 a bottle...or, at least, it's been that price everywhere I've seen it recently. With most wines, I will get bored/not care after maybe 3 glasses. If you find a wine that is still making you enjoy every drop after half a bottle, then that's a good wine. What that wine is will be entirely up to personal preference, red/white/sweet/French/new world etc.
I bought a serious slab of rib roast beef for lunch tomorrow. I may have to go shopping for some serious red, new world wine in the morning . . . Anyone know where I can get a couple of bottles of Grange for under £50 on a Sunday morning??
Whoozit said:
For me, a good wine is one which I savour all the way to the bottom - and regret drinking the last drop.
With most wines, I will get bored/not care after maybe 3 glasses. If you find a wine that is still making you enjoy every drop after half a bottle, then that's a good wine. What that wine is will be entirely up to personal preference, red/white/sweet/French/new world etc.
I bought a serious slab of rib roast beef for lunch tomorrow. I may have to go shopping for some serious red, new world wine in the morning . . . Anyone know where I can get a couple of bottles of Grange for under £50 on a Sunday morning??
50 snots no no no its not necessary, I take on board that you want to finish the bottle and all that, but wine is a very much a mood drink, where there are many times you might enjoy a pint of bear a glass of orange juice but as with all things our taste receptors are in control, I can quite easily finish 2 bottles of my favorite red on a reasonable day but some times a glass is a struggle With most wines, I will get bored/not care after maybe 3 glasses. If you find a wine that is still making you enjoy every drop after half a bottle, then that's a good wine. What that wine is will be entirely up to personal preference, red/white/sweet/French/new world etc.
I bought a serious slab of rib roast beef for lunch tomorrow. I may have to go shopping for some serious red, new world wine in the morning . . . Anyone know where I can get a couple of bottles of Grange for under £50 on a Sunday morning??
I have some very expensive wine but am to cheap to open them
raf_gti said:
yup
I'm at the stage where I can (mostly) tell the difference between the different grapes and I generally get what I expect when I choose whatever style takes my fancy that night.
However what gets me is the difference between the styles, Rioja to me seems particulary 'different' between the various brands out there.
Then what you are trying to do is train your palate, and put words to the tastes. Books are easy, but of course you are driving blind. You might try Wine for Dummies, but it might be beneath you now.I'm at the stage where I can (mostly) tell the difference between the different grapes and I generally get what I expect when I choose whatever style takes my fancy that night.
However what gets me is the difference between the styles, Rioja to me seems particulary 'different' between the various brands out there.
As Don suggests, clubs & tasting events are worth considering. Having someone point out a specific note to you really helps. My problem with such sessions is that they can be a bit cold - the group is too mixed and not as friendly as it could be. If it were a bunch of mates with similar interest it would be more fun (and you'd feel more comfortable being pretentious, or just admitting you don't particularly like something). But there's only one way to find out - try it.
One small trick is to find tasting notes for the specific wine you have. If you are buying serious wines (say £15+), take a look at the Robert Parker books which have thousands of tasting notes. For lesser wines, the net or just noting what it says on the sticker can be helpful. Make notes when you buy (if you are laying down for a while). You can then read them before you try them, and see whether your palate can spot what the ntes are telling you.
Have a look and see if there are any wine appreciation night classes you can do. We did one of these last year and it was really worthwhile. We would sample around 8 wines per week over 20 weeks and the sessions covered basic tasting techniques and went through different varietal wines, wines by region, food/wine combinations, evaluating / scoring wines, writing tasting notes etc. Quite interesting to sample say 2 or 3 wines of the same variety but at different price points to see whether the extra was worth paying.
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