Discussion
Perhaps the phrase he knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, is appropriate here.
Dull world if we all liked the same thing I suppose, and yes I do get annoyed in resturants when a very average bottle of something is presented as if it is the most exclusive wine in world and at a price that would make you think it was liquid gold.
I tend to buy from a couple of catalogues a couple of times a year, your money goes much further for better quality.
calibrax said:
Bebs said:
calibrax said:
So if a wine producer puts wine in one bottle priced at £5 and puts a pretty much identical wine in a different bottle priced at £50 (and I can guarantee that kinda thing does happen - there are plenty of unscrupulous people out there!)
You seem extremely well informed about the wine trade - I mean what with not drinking the stuff and seemingly knowingall about it
I suspect you probably know even far more than me - despite my 25 years in the wine trade.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8520980....
But regardless... as an accountant I know a lot about business, and there are people in every business who will try and rip people off in one way or another. And if you don't believe that then you're living in a dream world.
Edited by calibrax on Wednesday 24th March 10:37
Gargamel said:
Perhaps the phrase he knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, is appropriate here.
Well, perhaps when it comes to wine. But my passion is for steak... I would be perfectly happy spending £50 on a Kobe fillet steak, so I can certainly see the parallels. Each to their own I guess!calibrax said:
Gargamel said:
Perhaps the phrase he knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, is appropriate here.
Well, perhaps when it comes to wine. But my passion is for steak... I would be perfectly happy spending £50 on a Kobe fillet steak, so I can certainly see the parallels. Each to their own I guess!I had a conversation with the head waiter at Peter Lugar's in Brooklyn(widely accepted as the best steakhouse [clarkson]In The WORLD[/clarkson]).
He informed me that it's basically all the same, and that any difference in price simply attracts the pretentious and feckless.
Bebs said:
calibrax said:
Bebs said:
calibrax said:
So if a wine producer puts wine in one bottle priced at £5 and puts a pretty much identical wine in a different bottle priced at £50 (and I can guarantee that kinda thing does happen - there are plenty of unscrupulous people out there!)
You seem extremely well informed about the wine trade - I mean what with not drinking the stuff and seemingly knowingall about it
I suspect you probably know even far more than me - despite my 25 years in the wine trade.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8520980....
But regardless... as an accountant I know a lot about business, and there are people in every business who will try and rip people off in one way or another. And if you don't believe that then you're living in a dream world.
Edited by calibrax on Wednesday 24th March 10:37
darn I missed that.. I love E&J Gallo.. 
Surely the best wine critic in the world is the person who puts his/her lips to the glass and tastes the stuff, I have found that by many hours of research Hic! that I like a nice deep red Malbec from Chile or a Merlot from Chile it is all personal taste, very much the same as car choice (this is PH after all) I hate Porche and BMW but I love Audi and TVR! Bite me!
Ps Tesco sell a wine labelled Argento and most of the verieties are fantastic! less than £5 a bottle.
Ps Tesco sell a wine labelled Argento and most of the verieties are fantastic! less than £5 a bottle.
calibrax said:
1) You're drinking fermented grape juice. So what you are tasting is... GRAPE. You're NOT tasting raspberry, freshly mown grass, violets, earth, mushrooms, etc. It's all GRAPE. End of.
Not so!!!! Sometimes some oxygen is present in the vat, and the alcohol can be further converted into an acid (that's how vinegar is made). If conditions are right, the acid will not stay an acid but will combine with the alcohol or some other compound from the grape to form what is called by chemists an "ester" - the flavor compounds. When you say a white wine has a hint of apple or pear, or that a red wine has a berry-like character, it is because the esters in apples or pears or berries are present in the wine due to the extracurricular activities of the yeast. Speaking of extra activity, another good example can be seen in Chardonnays. If a Chard is "buttery," it is from the yeast working overtime and producing a compound called diacetyl—which also happens to give butter its flavor.Heathen!
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 24th March 11:35
Davey S2 said:
calibrax said:
3) If a wine costs more than, say, a couple of quid a bottle - then you're paying for the label.
Bottle (white plain quality) - 50 pCork simple 30p, proper (newly freshly cut - 70 p ot more)
Labels (depending on amount and quality) between 20 p and 2 pounds
cleaning and filling, labour....
The right stuff to put in priceless (you reflected on the oil trade)
Wine - work in your vinyard, as often as early as from April, start pruning and making sure the right amount of light, fertilizer etc.., then manually remove insects if you want to go organic, getting geological and ecological studies, pay for an expensive enology consultant (despite having been to university yourself...) play roulette with the weather, work in the cellar which you have refurbished with very expensive computerized equipment, your children will continue to pay it off, get a heart attack because Richard Parker fancies your Neighbours wine more than yours (although all the above is the same...)
No I am not in the trade but I know people who are - there are a few black sheep, there are a few people who (rightly or wrongly) can charge exorbitant prices for their produce, but the majority of wine growers work bloody hard to get an honest product out to the customer, most of them make a living, very few are rich (with traders it may be different - no offence bebs - I do not know you - I mean big supermarkets or online wine merchants)
There are bargains out there, but probably not for £3.22 a bottle
For examaple, there is a local grower near my parents a few kms from Saint-Émilion, who sells a 2005, proprietor (sp) bottled claret for EUR 12 a bottle from his vineyard shop. I haven't tasted a better red without spending 3 times the price
For examaple, there is a local grower near my parents a few kms from Saint-Émilion, who sells a 2005, proprietor (sp) bottled claret for EUR 12 a bottle from his vineyard shop. I haven't tasted a better red without spending 3 times the price
Bebs said:
You mean Robert?
No offence taken.
Indeed - as you may have guessed we are not on first name's anyway....No offence taken.
My friend in Italy always calls people like him and fellow reviewers "the wine inquisitors" - despite having scored several highs in the Gambero Rosso and Wine Spectator
calibrax said:
You're drinking fermented grape juice. So what you are tasting is... GRAPE. You're NOT tasting raspberry, freshly mown grass, violets, earth, mushrooms, etc. It's all GRAPE. End of.
Ah but you said 'fermented...The grape flavour has been converted by fermentation and various other processes into completely different chemicals, numerous complex organic molecules which still await precise identification I think! So the only thing in common between a grape and wine is the water content.
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