Are todays "musicians" just lazy or talentless

[Driver101]

HustleRussell said:

Rider007 said:

Didn't think I would be stirring up such a witches cauldron ,obviously there was a lot of cheesy crap produced in the 60's ,70's ,80's ,but what I'm trying to get across is that most bands seemed to have a unique "signature" to them ,without constant repetition of the same lyrics and chords of today, take this great cover of Chicago "25 or 6 to 4" , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_torOTK5qc&li... ,do you think most modern song writers could have the imagination to go beyond the 4 chord rule book ?. I think just let the guitar do the talking , original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uAUoz7jimg&li... or Prince https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efhlDbZ4SmY

You’re really just ignoring a lot of what is being posted aren’t you? And that is typical of modern music complainers. Fingers metaphorically in ears unless the song was released 25+ years ago. My Dad is the same.

It does appear he is trying to stir up than discuss.

[Walter Sobchak]

Integroo said:

Which is fine, you don't have to like it - but I think it's unfair to say that each and every hip hop artist is lazy or talentless when it is clearly not the case!

I wouldn’t say I was a fan of hip hop particularly myself but there’s no denying the likes of Kanye are very talented, they just don’t appeal to me that much.
I don’t think it’s fair to just say a particular genre/type of music is st, music is so subjective that I think it’s wrong to do so.

In regards to more modern musicians not being as talented or being lazy I don’t think that’s true.
As others have mentioned Royal Blood are a great newish band, Muse have released some great stuff, The National, and lastly, A Moon Shaped Pool was only released 3 years ago .

Edited by Walter Sobchak on Saturday 24th August 11:07

[Pothole]

ElectricSoup said:

Pothole said:

Not that new and not UK, but check out Dawes. One of my favourite discoveries of this millenium. Black Stone Cherry. Black Country Communion, & Airbourne are a bit harder

Cool, thanks, never heard of any of those. Will give them a try.

That suggests you're not looking very hard. Might it be you who is lazy? You'd hear all the latter 3 on Planet Rock in any given week, sometimes all on the same day.

[Teddy Lop]

Sporky said:

I don't remember the 70s, but the radio in the 80s and 90s was chock-full of dross.

pretty much, mainstream radio as long as I've known it has always pretty much been a sort of cartel, with their playlists etc, as a lover of music I love being able to introduce people to music that's new to them, its always struck me as depressing that with all the great music out there that radio DJs all play the same insipid dross playlists, on repeat. One reason I'll always loath chris evans is for being a bland dross peddler who bought virgin radio (which was one of the few radio stations that was a bit more adventurous in the 90s) and turning it into another insipid radio 1 soundalike. That's pretty much the definition of a parasite - what is it that these people pretend to be "rock" when they aren't?

As for today's dross being worse than yesteryears dross, was talking to the mrs a while back about this and we figure autotune is largely to blame. In the 80s even the singers of the most disposable pathetic pop had to be able to actually sing to an appreciable level, wheras today's "stars" are pretty looking things autotuned to sh!t and we wonder if that has a "blandening" effect, like filtering a photograph, you lose the flaws but also the individuality and personality.

[Simes205]

In summary the best era for ‘pop’ music is the 70’s. A melting pot of styles and creativity without the intervention of computer controlled technology in the process of production.

[Coolbanana]

Simes205 said:

In summary the best era for ‘pop’ music is the 70’s. A melting pot of styles and creativity without the intervention of computer controlled technology in the process of production.

A very middle-aged English-speaking White man's perspective who perhaps see's the UK and the USA as being all there is.

The 80's would be my sentimental era, but I prefer the music being made now as opposed to then. Certainly, while I enjoy some music from the 70's and do listen to 80's too, I just don't rate much of it very highly.

Very subjective, music. Hard to definitively declare any era as being 'better' than another without a huge element of sentimental bias and experience.

[Skyedriver]

Pothole said:

ElectricSoup said:

Pothole said:

Not that new and not UK, but check out Dawes. One of my favourite discoveries of this millenium. Black Stone Cherry. Black Country Communion, & Airbourne are a bit harder

Cool, thanks, never heard of any of those. Will give them a try.

That suggests you're not looking very hard. Might it be you who is lazy? You'd hear all the latter 3 on Planet Rock in any given week, sometimes all on the same day.

Good recommendations there.

Dawes were promoted by Jackson Browne originally and sound a little similar, not Planet Rock material. The rest are. I'd add maybe Blackberry Smoke to that list.
Not on Planet Rock but excellent are Big Big Train, a sort of early Genesis.
I used to listen to Bob Harris on a Saturday Evening/Sunday Morning, he played some really good new and older music. Sadly he's been replaced now, probably by some celebrity with little or no musical knowledge

[gmaz]

Yeah i agree about the laziness an formulaic approach. When was the last time a chart hit was not in 4/4?

I'm a fan of modern prog rock, and you can be sure that those musicians are not lazy (unless you look at Tool )

Guys like Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree) are real grafters with several concurrent projects going on for years.

For a recommendation on guitar rock, how about Riverside? https://youtu.be/0HWv7YJtYCA?t=2144

Or something more complex about as far away from the I, IV, V, vi in 4/4 as you can get - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfQ1I-VV7M

[Evangelion]

gmaz said:

...Or something more complex about as far away from the I, IV, V, vi in 4/4 as you can get - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfQ1I-VV7M

That lasted about 30 seconds with me. (Bass players who think they're lead players really get my goat. Either sell it and buy a guitar, or play it properly.)

There is still much amazing music about, you just won't find it in any of the 'popular' genres. Those people who say 'pop music these days,it's really awful' are talking a load of crap. Because 'pop music', or to give its correct name, 'pop', has always been awful, ever since the day it was first invented, because if it were not, it wouldn't reach its intended audience. Pop is not intended for those with any musical ability, education or qualifications - it's for the average man (or woman) in the street, who doesn't know a bloody thing about music. Therefore it doesn't need to be good. Of course, some of it still is, but not much.

[gmaz]

Evangelion said:

gmaz said:

...Or something more complex about as far away from the I, IV, V, vi in 4/4 as you can get - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYfQ1I-VV7M

That lasted about 30 seconds with me. (Bass players who think they're lead players really get my goat. Either sell it and buy a guitar, or play it properly.)

S'funny you should mention the bass player as he was in a pop band in 1983 and considered only to there for looks and to make the teenage girls swoon. Some time later he is still making music and is a very talented and capable musician.

[Simes205]

If we stray away from chart pop music then there’s lots going on.

https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc

Pick it up from 4mins and witness one of the greatest keys solo and player.

Check out Jacob Collier too
Our own 2 time Grammy winner
https://youtu.be/4mudDt2v41c

There are other threads about these guys.
Not lazy or boring!

Edited by Simes205 on Tuesday 27th August 20:37

[gmaz]

Simes205 said:

If we stray away from chart pop music then there’s lots going on.

https://youtu.be/L_XJ_s5IsQc

Pick it up from 4mins and witness one of the greatest keys solo and player.

How about this keyboard solo, followed by an amazing guitar solo

https://youtu.be/c254I4DBgp8?t=401

[Evangelion]

Eeuurggh.

[cherryowen]

gmaz said:

How about this keyboard solo, followed by an amazing guitar solo

https://youtu.be/c254I4DBgp8?t=401

As much as I respect Dave Kilminster as a guitar player / teacher / transcriber, the solo for that tune was in one take by Guthrie Govan:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaH2C2Qe97Y

[Chicken Chaser]

To be making original contemporary music is a feat in itself, nearly 70 years after pop music dropped onto everyone's radar. The amount of chord progs and timings which are pleasing to the ear have been done to death. New artists will have flavours of older artists due to influence but that's not to say they won't improve on what came before. I delight in the opportunity of using Spotify algorithms to identify new music which I can add to my collection. I've learned about some truly great artists who came long before me who I probably wouldn't have bought their back catalogue and similarly become fans of new artists who continue to produce great music without it being the same 3 or 4 chord trick.

[Magnum 475]

Roofless Toothless said:

I'm still waiting for a group that can follow the Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band with a lyric that contains the words 'prefabricated concrete coal bunker'.

Joan Baez?? In a song she wrote recently, she got the line “You’ve got serious psychological disorders”.

Best part is that the song is quite clearly about Donald Trump....

[Magnum 475]

gmaz said:

Yeah i agree about the laziness an formulaic approach. When was the last time a chart hit was not in 4/4

If you listen to the genre usually referred to as ‘Americana’ - not quite country, not quite folk, not quite bluegrass, you’ll hear lots of 3/4 time. It regularly makes the charts in the states, but not here in the UK.

[Billsnemesis]

What is "good" or "bad" is ultimately a matter of personal preference but recently there have been three fundamental changes in how music is produced: quantizing, autotune and sampling

I have always preferred a live sound and I don't just mean in timbre. I prefer the imperfections of live performance and when music hits the tipping point where I can no longer hear enough human input then I switch off. It just does nothing for me and that includes some bands whose songs I love in a live setting. One of my favourite albums ever is Live and Let Live by 10CC but I have not one of their studio albums and likely never will.

The technology masks the talent of performance and that does detract from the individuality that we used to hear even in pop music.

Autotune now gives us the modern equivalent of Milli Vanilli and I will pick on Kanye here - the guy cannot carry a tune in a handbag. His attempts at singing at Glastonbury would have had him booed offstage at the lowest pub karaoke. He may have talents elsewhere but his singing voice is awful.

Sampling is seen by some as simply the modern approach but it has changed the perception of what musical performance is. It avoids the need to learn the skill of playing an instrument. Is that lazy? In some cases damn right but that comes down to how it is used.

There has always been a degree to which pop has included the musical equivalents of Krispy Kreme donuts - just sugar and flavouring with no substance. Not that there is anything wrong with that but we should recognise it for what it is. It is not great culinary art and most modern pop is not great songwriting.

Add on the influence of marketing and there is a recipe for music to disappear up its own retardation. C&W is more reliant on stetsons than songs but I still like some of it (heaven help me I even have a Garth Brooks album and I can still play one of his songs). Ask yourself how far off track Beyonce would have to go before her fans deserted her and you have an idea of what they really think of her music. People buy people first - ask any sales team.

Some musicians can write, sing, arrange, produce, perform and promote. They have six talents. Many of today's pop heroes have one or at most two of these (yes Kanye I am looking at you!)

This can produce the reverse of the Beyonce effect where it doesn't matter that they happen to have pulled off a good song, some people will look at the artist and their music as a package and reject the whole lot. I am guilty of that (Kanye again...) There are some artists where I cannot work out if it is the music I don't like or the artist or both.

So back to the OP - are these people talentless and/or lazy? The music business has changed. It is called "pop" because it relies on popularity rather than talent and for every musical Barak Obama there is going to be a raucous Donald Trump. The technology has made the process of writing and publishing songs more homogenous but it still takes a shoot load of hard work to make it in the business so I think allegations of laziness are misplaced. Anyone who makes it in the business must have some talent but it is now easier than ever for those whose talent is not music to succeed at the expense of those with a more traditional musical skill. To me Madonna was always a successful entrepreneur first and a musician/performer second. That is becoming increasingly common as the internet gives us access to so much material that the filters and algorithms determine what we see and hear. When we have access to everything the problems is finding something.

[wisbech]

As for 'lazy' - because of streaming, the top performers now make most of their cash from tours & merchandise, not selling music. So, even superstars like Taylor Swift & Ed Sheeran are always on the road.

[Evangelion]

I don't believe that many of today's musicians are talentless or lazy. It's just that they have to tailor (or Taylor) the product to suit the market.

If they try to get too clever, they will lose their audience.