Learning to play the guitar?

[cherryowen]

MBVitoria said:

Hi all, for over 20 years I've been plinking away at the guitar but have never progressed much beyond what I would deem advanced beginner. I'm terrible for picking up the guitar everyday for a month and then putting it down for the next year as life and work gets in the way.

I'm a reasonable campfire strummer and can follow some more complex stuff (including a decent "Stairway") but now want to get my head around the theory side of things, especially as eldest daughter is taking an interest in wanting to learn.

Anyone got any recommendations for books that cover the basic principles of theory? Youtube is ace but I find I understand things better when I read them and most of the websites I've found on this all seem to tie into a paid course which I don't really want at the moment.

cheers.

Having played guitar for over 30 years, I started reading up on music theory back in 2018 and found it both fascinating and useful. Since then, I've subscribed to a couple of piano tutors on YouTube as they tend to "deep dive" into theory more than guitar lessons (unless you're Rick Beato, who seems to have forgotten more music theory than others will ever know). Anyway, the piano channels I subscibe to heartily approve this book:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Before-Learn-Music-T...

[MBVitoria]

cherryowen said:

MBVitoria said:

Hi all, for over 20 years I've been plinking away at the guitar

cheers.

Having played guitar for over 30 years, I started reading up on music theory back in 2018 and found it both fascinating and useful. Since then, I've subscribed to a couple of piano tutors on YouTube as they tend to "deep dive" into theory more than guitar lessons (unless you're Rick Beato, who seems to have forgotten more music theory than others will ever know). Anyway, the piano channels I subscibe to heartily approve this book:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Before-Learn-Music-T...

Ace thanks

Simes205 said:

What sort of theory?
Rhythm
Pitch
Harmony

https://www.musictheory.net/

Thanks, I have no idea lol so just need to make a start and get reading.

[Polly Grigora]

President Merkin said:

I started on a classical, still play it every day. The great thing is once you nail the muscle memory & motor skills, then a guitar is just a guitar, you can play any old axe. And the calusses will come with practice. The golden rule is practice, practice, practice. It really is the secret shortcut.

How many years to achieve the shortcut? Please

[President Merkin]

Polly Grigora said:

How many years to achieve the shortcut? Please

Well I started in 1990...

Learning an instrument is an indivdual journey, everyone does it differently. I found it went in fits & spurts, I'd have regular plateaus where I would effectively get stuck at a level. That is a very common experience, the famous one with beginners is learning F major on the guitar, practically everyone struggles with that for a while, then you work it out and then you wonder how you couldn't do it before but if you have the right attitude, you take it as inspiration to crack on.

I also had distinct periods of intense practice to push on to the next level. In the mid 90's for months, I played along with two albums bar by bar, literally a note at a time to try to work out the puzzles in the music, Definitely Maybe by Oasis & The great escape by Blur. Fair to say I learnt far more from Blur than Oasis...

Then I got into bands which turbo charges anyone's playing - can't recommend it enough. Lockdowns were another. I used that time to learn fingerstyle. I've admired Paul Simon, Davey Garaham etc. for ever, their music seemed impenetrable but the big difference now is the internet. Thousands of guitar teachers available at the click of a button is just fantastic. I found this guy, learnt how to use my picking hand in a new way & a whole world of playing opened up. You can never get to the end if it. No musician knows all there is to know, I find that inspiring, the idea there is always something new to learn pushes me on.



ETA You don't need much music theory.to kick on. It always helps but plenty of world famous rock stars got there with just a couple of scales. I'm saying do learn theory, jsut don't get too hung up on it.

Edited by President Merkin on Wednesday 25th October 08:19

[Polly Grigora]

Thank you very much for such an in depth reply

The further I read into your post the more it became apparent about the dedication needed, found it very interesting that you comment about always learning and some not being great readers of music

Although knowing people that play guitar I've never popped the question as to how they started learning

Much appreciated

[cherryowen]

Polly Grigora said:

President Merkin said:

I started on a classical, still play it every day. The great thing is once you nail the muscle memory & motor skills, then a guitar is just a guitar, you can play any old axe. And the calusses will come with practice. The golden rule is practice, practice, practice. It really is the secret shortcut.

How many years to achieve the shortcut? Please

Well, it depends on i) aptitude and ii) as President Merkin says, practice. Regarding point ii, I've picked up a guitar every day and messed around to play stuff since 1988. Every day. It may be 30 minutes or a couple of hours, but it keeps your fingers "in the game" so to speak. That's not a shortcut, BTW. Malmsteen practiced 8 hours / day for years in his teens to get to his level of technicality and musicianship (didn't teach him much in interpersonal skills, but that's another discussion......).

Anyway. I can offer one "shortcut" which is never forget that a standard major or minor chord uses just three notes. For example, A major is A / C# / E and play those notes (in any combination, anywhere on the fretboard) will sound out A major.

[Polly Grigora]

cherryowen said:

Well, it depends on i) aptitude and ii) as President Merkin says, practice. Regarding point ii, I've picked up a guitar every day and messed around to play stuff since 1988. Every day. It may be 30 minutes or a couple of hours, but it keeps your fingers "in the game" so to speak. That's not a shortcut, BTW. Malmsteen practiced 8 hours / day for years in his teens to get to his level of technicality and musicianship (didn't teach him much in interpersonal skills, but that's another discussion......).

Ok, read this, give me a moment as have had to get the calculator

35 x 365 = 12775 x 30 Mins = 383250 mins = 6387.5 Hours

or

6387.5 x 4 (for 2 Hr stints) = 25550 Hours


Much work

cherryowen said:

Anyway. I can offer one "shortcut" which is never forget that a standard major or minor chord uses just three notes. For example, A major is A / C# / E and play those notes (in any combination, anywhere on the fretboard) will sound out A major.

Very interesting although studying is now needed to understand. Am wondering if this is similar to a Lou Reed interview I listened to a few years ago when he mentioned a few chords and how anyone can play guitar, now found this that's different but similar



President Merkin, yourself and other guitar players here must cringe when the ignorant such as I post our opinions about some guitar work being good or bad

Thank you for your input

[Simes205]

Once you’ve learnt chords I, IV, V and VI in a key of your choice you’ve got most of pop music covered.
A or E are many a guitarists goto key.

[Polly Grigora]

Appreciated, funny

[cherryowen]

Polly Grigora said:

cherryowen said:

Well, it depends on i) aptitude and ii) as President Merkin says, practice. Regarding point ii, I've picked up a guitar every day and messed around to play stuff since 1988. Every day. It may be 30 minutes or a couple of hours, but it keeps your fingers "in the game" so to speak. That's not a shortcut, BTW. Malmsteen practiced 8 hours / day for years in his teens to get to his level of technicality and musicianship (didn't teach him much in interpersonal skills, but that's another discussion......).

Ok, read this, give me a moment as have had to get the calculator

35 x 365 = 12775 x 30 Mins = 383250 mins = 6387.5 Hours

or

6387.5 x 4 (for 2 Hr stints) = 25550 Hours


Much work

I have read somewhere that, to get to "expert level" on a musical instrument takes 10,000 hours of practice. When I mentioned in my post about playing the guitar every day it didn't include the 14 days holiday every year for the last 20 years!

Polly Grigora said:

President Merkin, yourself and other guitar players here must cringe when the ignorant such as I post our opinions about some guitar work being good or bad

Thank you for your input

No cringe. Playing a musical instrument is an everlasting learning curve (although I suspect if you're a classical pianist like Daniel Barenboim, then the curve has flattened somewhat)

[President Merkin]

I've read a couple of books on the 10,000 hour thing, This is your brain on music by Daniel Letvin is one that sticks in the mind, where he notes that 10,000 hours playing is common among musicians like Hendrix, Chopin and so on but notes we've only ever produced one Hendrix or Mozart. In other words, it appears to take 10,000 hours to develop that level of fluidity but it's no guarantee putting in that effort will actually produce anything interesting.

[ben5575]

100%. I've been kickboxing for decades and have thrown over 10k jabs/hooks/roundhouse kicks etc. I am technically very good, expert even. I still get my ass handed to me when I step in the ring though

You can be expertly proficient at things without being good. The trouble is, as above, your definition of what constitutes 'good' moves as you get better. 'The more you learn, the less you know'.

[President Merkin]

I suppose the obvious nuance is divorcing creativity from proficiency. For instance, no one ever accused Neil Young of being a dazzling shredder but he's produced some timeless songs. Maybe it's that mix of the two that is so elusive.

[cherryowen]

Simes205 said:

Once you’ve learnt chords I, IV, V and VI in a key of your choice you’ve got most of pop music covered.
A or E are many a guitarists goto key.

May I just expand on this for those that are learning to play / write tunes?

Taking the easy example of the key of C major (because it contains no sharp (#) or flat (b) notes, the major scale is C D E F G A B C), each note in the scale has an associated chord. Playing each chord one after another sounds a harmonised C major scale (do-ray-me-fa-so-la-ti-do), and the chords are C / D minor / E minor / F / G / A minor / B diminished / C.

Each chord is given a Roman numeral in either upper case or lower case to denote whether a chord is major or minor. So the chords for C major would be I / ii / iii / IV / V / vi / vii diminished / I.

Simes205 is right, largely, but hundreds of pop tunes have a combination of I / IV / vi / V chord progressions. In they key of C major that would be C / F / A minor / G. A VI chord in a major key can work, but it's a "borrowed" chord from the relative minor scale (in the case of C major, the relative minor is A minor)

[Cbull]

Wasn't sure where to ask sorry.

I looking on upgrading a cheap strat. Can anyone recommend some cheap x3 single coil pickups for that classic strat sound as the current ones just sound a bit flubby (all be it that could easily be my playing)? A bit of a stretch but only looking for something around £50, looks like I could get some quality used ones for about £130 on Ebay but that's more than the guitar is worth new. If not, what would people recommend? TIA

[P5BNij]

Polly Grigora said:

cherryowen said:

Well, it depends on i) aptitude and ii) as President Merkin says, practice. Regarding point ii, I've picked up a guitar every day and messed around to play stuff since 1988. Every day. It may be 30 minutes or a couple of hours, but it keeps your fingers "in the game" so to speak. That's not a shortcut, BTW. Malmsteen practiced 8 hours / day for years in his teens to get to his level of technicality and musicianship (didn't teach him much in interpersonal skills, but that's another discussion......).

Ok, read this, give me a moment as have had to get the calculator

35 x 365 = 12775 x 30 Mins = 383250 mins = 6387.5 Hours

or

6387.5 x 4 (for 2 Hr stints) = 25550 Hours


Much work

cherryowen said:

Anyway. I can offer one "shortcut" which is never forget that a standard major or minor chord uses just three notes. For example, A major is A / C# / E and play those notes (in any combination, anywhere on the fretboard) will sound out A major.

Very interesting although studying is now needed to understand. Am wondering if this is similar to a Lou Reed interview I listened to a few years ago when he mentioned a few chords and how anyone can play guitar, now found this that's different but similar



President Merkin, yourself and other guitar players here must cringe when the ignorant such as I post our opinions about some guitar work being good or bad

Thank you for your input

All these years I've been playing 'Sweet Jane' wrong, yet it still sounds right... weird!

I can just about play the VU's 'Rock And Roll' too which gives me endless joy.

[thebraketester]

He's just voicing the chord differently. It will

[languagetimothy]

Cbull said:

Wasn't sure where to ask sorry.

I looking on upgrading a cheap strat. Can anyone recommend some cheap x3 single coil pickups for that classic strat sound as the current ones just sound a bit flubby (all be it that could easily be my playing)? A bit of a stretch but only looking for something around £50, looks like I could get some quality used ones for about £130 on Ebay but that's more than the guitar is worth new. If not, what would people recommend? TIA

Unfortunately it’s one of those things that can be trial and error and definitely individual taste.
I hv some CS fat 50s on one of my Strats but I’m not getting on with them. Too much grunt and not enough strat “bell” and to me there’s no separation when you stick a bit of distortion if front of them
I’m going to change them out for something else but haven’t decided what yet.

The sound can also be affected by the wiring, capacitors etc.. unless you can do it yourself you will also hv to pay to get them fitted. Consider this when looking.there’s a few places that do “loaded pickguards”.. that’s a complete replacement and only needs a solder for the Jack and earth.

Northwest guitars for example

https://northwestguitars.co.uk/collections/loaded-...

Importante to note that if your stated cheap strat is not fender or squire the measurements might not allow direct fitting as the scratchplate could be different or body holes.

[OldSkoolRS]

Cbull said:

Wasn't sure where to ask sorry.

I looking on upgrading a cheap strat. Can anyone recommend some cheap x3 single coil pickups for that classic strat sound as the current ones just sound a bit flubby (all be it that could easily be my playing)? A bit of a stretch but only looking for something around £50, looks like I could get some quality used ones for about £130 on Ebay but that's more than the guitar is worth new. If not, what would people recommend? TIA

To be honest the £50 set might not be any better than what is in there already...Not trying to sound like a snob because I have a cheap 'travel' guitar that is basically a cut down Strat. The whole guitar only cost £58, but after I adjusted the pickup heights, turn down the tone control a touch and boost the amp gain it sounds pretty good. Maybe that's all it needs is a bit of setting up and adjusting.

My main gigging Strat I built (assembled) during lockdown and originally fitted some Fender Pure Vintage '65 pickups which I bought used. I played around with different tone pot values and capacitors to fine tune the sound, but it was (to me) the classic Strat sound. I later replaced them with Fender Noiseless Vintage pickups because some of our venues had problems with buzzing from the lights or wiring. The Noiseless are close enough in sound, but cut the buzz considerably. The PV65s were a decent price used from Reverb, but I can do my own soldering and installing, so that saves the cost.

[singlecoil]

Cbull said:

Wasn't sure where to ask sorry.

I looking on upgrading a cheap strat. Can anyone recommend some cheap x3 single coil pickups for that classic strat sound as the current ones just sound a bit flubby (all be it that could easily be my playing)? A bit of a stretch but only looking for something around £50, looks like I could get some quality used ones for about £130 on Ebay but that's more than the guitar is worth new. If not, what would people recommend? TIA

Have a look at the Korean made Artec pickups, especially the Milestone version. Hand wound onto actual individual magnets, excellent value for money. Get the reverse wound reverse polarity unit for the middle position and get a humbucking effect in switch positions 2 and 4.