Learning to play the guitar?

[cherryowen]

brman said:

Prohibiting said:

cherryowen said:

I'm not sure why your pinky is involved in fretting an A major chord.

As a beginner, an A major should be (low strings to high) : Open low E string, open low A string, index finger 2nd fret on D string, middle finger 2nd fret on G string, ring finger 2nd fret B string, open high E string.

Once you've nailed that, move on to index finger barring the D, G, and B strings with the thumb hooked over the top of the fretboard to mute the low E (not strictly necessary as the E natural note is part of an A major chord, so it won't sound out of place)

https://youtu.be/w4a2ge9N31E
19:40

alternatively, and without troubling your pinky....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkkOFLouQDs

Every day is a school day.

I've never seen, nor played, A in either version until I watched those.

One would struggle to play the intro to Led Zep's Hey, Hey What Can I Do using those chord shapes.

[Promised Land]

theguvernor15 said:

Anyone who says guitar is easy, can either already play or is lying!

Nothing in life is easy the first time you’ve tried it, your job, the very first day you started before any type of training you didn’t just walk into it and go full steam ahead, likewise driving a car, your first lesson everything is buzzing around in your head.

Music, you get out of it what you are prepared to put in, when I sat my grade 8 exam nearly 20 years ago I looked at all the 3 octave scales I had to learn and the 3 pieces of music and thought I’d never remember all of that at grade 8 standard, but with practice and practice and practice I did and past the exam.

I can still play one of the pieces a JS Bach, I’ve forgotten the other two as not played them for years but if I found the music upstairs it wouldn’t take long to play off the top of my head again.

Most beginners give up early on as frustration takes over, keep at it and it will come.

Biggest advice id give anyone is scales, learn and play them daily from 2 octave to 3 octave, master your scales and you’ll fly along.

[cherryowen]

Promised Land said:

Biggest advice id give anyone is scales, learn and play them daily from 2 octave to 3 octave, master your scales and you’ll fly along.

Sage advice indeed, as is applying it to basic diatonic theory which is good for songwriting.

Take a C major scale (no sharps or flats):-

C D E F G A B C

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 (8 - the octave)

Each note has an associated chord in a major key:-

Cmaj / Dm / Em / Fmaj / Gmaj / Am / Bdim7 / Cmaj

Each chord has a notation:-

I / ii / iii / IV / V / vi / vii / !

Uppercase means major chords, lowercase means minor chords.

Try playing a I / vi / IV / V progression (so Cmaj / Am / Fmaj / Gmaj), it'll sound good.

[dojo]

cherryowen said:

Sage advice indeed, as is applying it to basic diatonic theory which is good for songwriting.

Take a C major scale (no sharps or flats):-

C D E F G A B C


Each note has an associated chord in a major key:-

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 (8 - the octave)
Cmaj / Dm / Em / Fmaj / Gmaj / Am / Bdim7 / Cmaj

Understanding this helps in so many ways. I'd strongly recommed CAGED system over the 3 note per string patterns if this is the route you're going down.

@CherryOwen I know you're really digging into your theory, so to pull you up on one point - not to be an a*se but try & help.
In the key of C the B if you're playing it as a triad is indeed a Bdim but if you're extending it out to a 7 chord it becomes a half dim or Min7b5
Thats why you would tend to use locrian as your go to on half dim chords but not dim 7 as there are better choices. (y)

[cherryowen]

dojo said:

cherryowen said:

Sage advice indeed, as is applying it to basic diatonic theory which is good for songwriting.

Take a C major scale (no sharps or flats):-

C D E F G A B C


Each note has an associated chord in a major key:-

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 (8 - the octave)
Cmaj / Dm / Em / Fmaj / Gmaj / Am / Bdim7 / Cmaj

Understanding this helps in so many ways. I'd strongly recommed CAGED system over the 3 note per string patterns if this is the route you're going down.

@CherryOwen I know you're really digging into your theory, so to pull you up on one point - not to be an a*se but try & help.
In the key of C the B if you're playing it as a triad is indeed a Bdim but if you're extending it out to a 7 chord it becomes a half dim or Min7b5
Thats why you would tend to use locrian as your go to on half dim chords but not dim 7 as there are better choices. (y)

Years ago, I learned that the vii chord in a major key was a Min7b5. It's just that in the last few years, for me, the lines have become a little blurred with what is a Dim / Dim7 / Min7b5 chord. I know a Dim7 has a flatted 7th note, and a full Dim has a "double-flatted" 7th. This stuff is still a learning curve for me!

By coincidence, I watched a video earlier from Brian Kelly (Zombie Guitar Project) on the subject of Diminished and Augmented chords. He played a chord progression in the key of C major : Am / F / C / Em which was perfectly diatonic. He then went on to demonstrate substituting the Em for E major / E7 / B full Dim / C Aug. They all sounded good, and all because the substitute chords contain a G# leading tone back to A.

Every day is a school day!

[ben5575]

Thread resurrection...

Is the OP and others still at it 2.5 years later? How are you guys getting on? Any new players on here?

I'm three months in (so the 'Wish You Were Here' stage ) and managing around an hour a day practise.

I'm using/paying for a combination of three online courses which gives me the option to switch between them to give me a break if I'm stuck on a particular lesson:

Justin Guitar - Gets you playing the guitar - great teacher who understands what it's like to be a beginner (something that more experienced players forget) but perhaps a little too dumbed down once you start get a little further down the line. He forms the basis/structure of my learning. 9/10

Fender - Fills in the gaps left by Justin - technical but really quite corporate/robotic/squeaky clean. 8/10

Zombie Guitar - gets you PLAYING the guitar. Somehow mixes; ignore all the rules and go by feel, with; actually it's all about rules but I've done the thinking and this is what you actually need to know. By far the best teacher for me but not for the absolute beginner as he assumes you can move your fingers and strum.

Struggling with noise control, particularly reconciling the 'precision' needed for playing chords cleanly with the 'messiness' of muting adjacent strings and that's before partially muting the other strings with your palm whilst simultaneously finding the strings and strumming patterns in time. I mean serious WTF is all that about?!

My big discovery has been noodling the Em pentatonic notes on the 5th fret (so Am) over a 12 bar blues backing track on youtube. The pressure of the music really forces you to learn the notes/shape quickly which translates into the daily lessons. Plus I sound like BB King .

Here's a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pHhJhqfZcc

Any other tips or advice from the others who are starting out or the more seasoned players?

[President Merkin]

The muting unwanted notes thing will come - as with anything musical - with experience. If you think about it, you're trying to make micro adjustments to where individual fingers, your palm etc. are actually moving about in relation to the fretboard. There is no real do this or do that to it, you just have to keep doing it until you find the seet spots that work for you in relation to each individual moment you're playing.

If it helps, I've played for thirty years & get it wrong every time I play. Bum notes & mistakes are just part of playing, the fun is in minimising them - feels good when you get it right.

[ben5575]

This makes me feel better!

[President Merkin]

ben5575 said:

This makes me feel better!

Just to expand on this a bit, here's a great example of muting & selective fretting. This tune, which is great imo, has an octave riff in which the guitarist Jairo Zaval plays the G string at the fourth fret & the high E string at the 7th simultaneously to produce a compelling thing that serves to ratchet the tension in the song & herald the horn section.

To do it, he has to mute the B string with his fretting hand & avoid hitting the low E, A & D strings,all within one second. That's experience right there. 2:17 on the video & reappears a few time throughout the song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZEN23VgcMI

If you look closely at his fretting hand, you can see he's muting the lower strings with his spare fingers & arching his index finger slighty on the G string which lets him mute the B. This is the level of nerdery people like me groove on, You can also see how much he gets off on the riff itself, which might seem trivial but is a feeling I absolutely resonate with. You know when you've done something cool on the guitar.

As an aside, that whole octave thing is a favourite technique of Johnny Greenwood, you can hear it all over ealrlier Radiohead stuff - it forms the majority of the solo playing in Creep.

Edited by President Merkin on Wednesday 21st December 10:48

[ben5575]

This is the sort of stuff I enjoy about learning things. Seeing things that you've never seen before, thanks for pointing that out.

I'm just moving out of the 'unconscious incompetence' stage and into 'conscious incompetence' so have the joy of discovering new things whilst being aware that there are actually new things to discover it's just that I don't know what they are yet - such as your example above.

[2fast748]

I've been trying to teach myself* guitar for about 10 years but life keeps getting in the way. I'd say up to a few months ago the previous 12 months was the longest single stretch of actually learning and I could see a real improvement.

I've done JustinGuitars beginner course about 3 times!

• Lots of YouTube videos may have helped!

[cherryowen]

ben5575 said:

This is the sort of stuff I enjoy about learning things. Seeing things that you've never seen before, thanks for pointing that out.

I'm just moving out of the 'unconscious incompetence' stage and into 'conscious incompetence' so have the joy of discovering new things whilst being aware that there are actually new things to discover it's just that I don't know what they are yet - such as your example above.

This thing will hopefully assist things : Any basic major or minor chord only uses three notes - the root, the third, and the fifth. So, if you take the C major scale (again, for simplicity) the notes are

C D E F G A B

C=Root
E=Third
G=Fifth

Play any combination of those notes and you have a C major chord.

The third note defines whether a chord is major or minor sounding. A flattened third will give you a minor chord, so a C minor would be:-

C=Root
E flat (or D sharp)=Flattened third
G=Fifth

When noodling lead lines, knowing where your root, third, and fifth notes are for a given scale can open a lot of doors.

[ben5575]

That’s great thanks. The minor is a half step down from the third isn’t it?

[cherryowen]

It is, yes.

E major chord = E G# B

E minor chord = E G B

You can even simplify even further, because what defines a major or minor chord is the third note. So you could play an E and G# notes together to sound an E major chord. Play E and G, and it's an E minor

[TCX]

ben5575 said:

Thread resurrection...

Is the OP and others still at it 2.5 years later? How are you guys getting on? Any new players on here?

I'm three months in (so the 'Wish You Were Here' stage ) and managing around an hour a day practise.

I'm using/paying for a combination of three online courses which gives me the option to switch between them to give me a break if I'm stuck on a particular lesson:

Justin Guitar - Gets you playing the guitar - great teacher who understands what it's like to be a beginner (something that more experienced players forget) but perhaps a little too dumbed down once you start get a little further down the line. He forms the basis/structure of my learning. 9/10

Fender - Fills in the gaps left by Justin - technical but really quite corporate/robotic/squeaky clean. 8/10

Zombie Guitar - gets you PLAYING the guitar. Somehow mixes; ignore all the rules and go by feel, with; actually it's all about rules but I've done the thinking and this is what you actually need to know. By far the best teacher for me but not for the absolute beginner as he assumes you can move your fingers and strum.

Struggling with noise control, particularly reconciling the 'precision' needed for playing chords cleanly with the 'messiness' of muting adjacent strings and that's before partially muting the other strings with your palm whilst simultaneously finding the strings and strumming patterns in time. I mean serious WTF is all that about?!

My big discovery has been noodling the Em pentatonic notes on the 5th fret (so Am) over a 12 bar blues backing track on youtube. The pressure of the music really forces you to learn the notes/shape quickly which translates into the daily lessons. Plus I sound like BB King .

Here's a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pHhJhqfZcc

Any other tips or advice from the others who are starting out or the more seasoned players?

Tip,if you can afford one,Boss Dr80,you can play along headphones or line out to powered speakers, metronome,drum machine,backing tracks,record n listen back to your playing,about £170

[President Merkin]

By far the best gadget I ever bought for learning was the Boss E Band. You can load MP3's into it & play along with them but the kickers are it lets you loop sections, slow them down but maintain pitch & record your output. Comes with dozens of effects but I usually set it to dry signal & plug my pedal board in. Great bit of kit.

https://www.boss.info/uk/products/eband_js-10/

[Jarcy]

ben5575 said:

Thread resurrection...

Is the OP and others still at it 2.5 years later? How are you guys getting on? Any new players on here?

I'm three months in (so the 'Wish You Were Here' stage ) and managing around an hour a day practise.

Not 6-string, but I started learning bass in November '19, so I'm 3 years in.
I honestly thought there was a high probability that my first guitar would gather dust in the corner, but not so!

The bass appears easy at first, but then it's pretty difficult to master.
I'm having lessons, mostly online but 1-2-1, as a hangup from Covid.

At my level, I'm currently trying to learn/play Roundabout (Yes). Technically tricky, and I'm not using a pick.
I've 'gigged' twice this year with Rock Project (a great way to get to start building performing confidence).
Favourite live pieces were Uprising (Muse) and My Sharona (The Knack).

My goal is to join a part time band. Perform in local pubs etc.
I don't need the money, but if I were paid £100 for my troubles, I'd be on cloud 9.
Any tips on how to hook up with a middle aged band would be greatfully received.

I now own 5 basses (none of them dusty), including 2 5-strings. My favrouite is my Fender American Ultra P-Bass.

Edited by Jarcy on Friday 23 December 11:58

[ben5575]

Sounds great!

Also thanks for the suggestions on the digital stuff. I think I better learn how to play before learning something else as well.

I have bought a Marshall Code 25 modelling amp which I can plug my ipad into to play tracks and also play around with the effects from my phone. It's great, but to be honest at this stage I prefer to go unplugged as less people can hear how awful I am!

[Dr Jekyll]

I'd vaguely thought about learning to play simply because I like listening to guitars and wanted to know the technique, though I suspect I come into the 'tone deaf simply not musical' category. Specifically I thought about an electric one so I could use headphones and not disturb the neighbours. Would that really be an option for a beginner? Would an acoustic be out of the question in a small semi with thin walls?

[Yahonza]

Dr Jekyll said:

I'd vaguely thought about learning to play simply because I like listening to guitars and wanted to know the technique, though I suspect I come into the 'tone deaf simply not musical' category. Specifically I thought about an electric one so I could use headphones and not disturb the neighbours. Would that really be an option for a beginner? Would an acoustic be out of the question in a small semi with thin walls?

Yes - several of the newer small modelling amplifiers come with a headphone socket and / or bluetooth so you can connect headphones. An acoustic will annoy the neighbours less - unless you are singing along.