Help! Anyone ever been a soundman?
Discussion
I've been asked - rather randomly - if I could stand in as a soundman for my girlfriend's band in a few weeks time. The thing is whilst I've played in bands and I have a vague idea what the various faders do, I've not actually done anything like that before. Ever.
Can anyone give me a crash course on live sound engineering? I think I've got a rough understand of setting the levels initially, but what do you do for the rest of the gig?
Any advice greatfully recieved!
Can anyone give me a crash course on live sound engineering? I think I've got a rough understand of setting the levels initially, but what do you do for the rest of the gig?
Any advice greatfully recieved!
Oh dear, you could be in the do do here. Depends on what desk you are using really, whether it be digital or analogue. If you are soundchecking from scratch start with the drums get a good level on those first off, then bass, guitar and vocals. You should be looking for a nice balanced sound which you can achieve once everyone has checked their individual gear by running through a few songs as a band.
Obviously once you have done that the sound will be further affected by the accoustics of the room, how many people are in etc which is when you can tweak it again whilst they are playing. You should be looking for a nice warm even sound where no instruments are competing against each other.
If you are using say a simple desk of say 8 inputs and a fairly basic setup then you could probably get through with basic knowledge. Anything above that i would get some help in as im sure your mates wont appreciate a duff sound on the night as you will be in the firing line! God luck.
Obviously once you have done that the sound will be further affected by the accoustics of the room, how many people are in etc which is when you can tweak it again whilst they are playing. You should be looking for a nice warm even sound where no instruments are competing against each other.
If you are using say a simple desk of say 8 inputs and a fairly basic setup then you could probably get through with basic knowledge. Anything above that i would get some help in as im sure your mates wont appreciate a duff sound on the night as you will be in the firing line! God luck.
Chris71 said:
I've been asked - rather randomly - if I could stand in as a soundman for my girlfriend's band in a few weeks time. The thing is whilst I've played in bands and I have a vague idea what the various faders do, I've not actually done anything like that before. Ever.
Can anyone give me a crash course on live sound engineering? I think I've got a rough understand of setting the levels initially, but what do you do for the rest of the gig?
Any advice greatfully recieved!
I like you was once thrown in the deep end ,(although a TV studio , 20 Trk Sound mixer).Can anyone give me a crash course on live sound engineering? I think I've got a rough understand of setting the levels initially, but what do you do for the rest of the gig?
Any advice greatfully recieved!
I am not sure what Equipment you are using .Most mixers have a Master Fader it should be a RED one .The most common problem is you can't hear any sound ,thats because you haven't pushed this fader up.Also don't forget to get the balance right first .Another
pit fall is a litle button on each Input Fader called Pre Fade Listen which means you
can listen to the level of that input before you adjust it (to be quite honest i don't think it will be on the Sound mixer ) but if it is don't forget to turn it off otherwise you will not be able to adjust the input and mix properly .I hope i haven't scared you
and remember it may look complicated but just make sure you label each imput with the Intrument it helps.As i said i'm a little rusty on this subject.Have Fun
Edited by seltaeb on Wednesday 2nd April 13:48
I've mastered a few demo tracks before (just because I had the appropriate software to play around with), but I've never done anything live. I don't mind having a go, but I've made it quite clear they should get someone who knows what they're doing preferentially.
I think they have their own PA, which is good for two reasons - I can't see it being a very complicated mixer and secondly if I do end up doing it, I might be able to get across to a rehearsal beforehand. Either way, having heard how much they're getting payed for this one I think I'm in the wrong profession.
I think they have their own PA, which is good for two reasons - I can't see it being a very complicated mixer and secondly if I do end up doing it, I might be able to get across to a rehearsal beforehand. Either way, having heard how much they're getting payed for this one I think I'm in the wrong profession.
Live sound engineers don't earn a lot really. So I wouldn't get too excited about that.
I would get yourself onto the SoS forums perhaps. I don't think a few posts here will really tell you all you need to know. It can be quite involved. But you'd find a ton of info on their forums. www.soundonsound.com
Having said that, Live sound was never really my bag. Mastering and mixdowns was something I used to do quite a bit of though.
Get yourself familiar with the equipment you have to work with. Have a good play around and see what everything does. And I would consider going to the rehearsals absolutely essential.
P,
I would get yourself onto the SoS forums perhaps. I don't think a few posts here will really tell you all you need to know. It can be quite involved. But you'd find a ton of info on their forums. www.soundonsound.com
Having said that, Live sound was never really my bag. Mastering and mixdowns was something I used to do quite a bit of though.
Get yourself familiar with the equipment you have to work with. Have a good play around and see what everything does. And I would consider going to the rehearsals absolutely essential.
P,
I've soundied for a couple of mates bands before, nothing special, just a 10-track mixer, a multicore, one poweramp and a vocal PA type setup. But here's a step by step.
Mic and wire everything up. Get yourself in a position out front.
Start with the drummer, get him to hit the kick drum over and over. Press the PFL (pre-fade level) button on that channel, and the green level lights indicate the signal level above the master faders. Ad just the gain on that channel until it never quite goes over zero dB. It shouldn't be peaking out. Then unpress the PFL button. Do the same with the snare, PFL, set the gain so it's not quite peaking on the loudest hits. Then the hi-hats, tom mics, overheads etc. You've not got a decent, undistorted signal from all the drum mics coming into the desk, and you can now mix them. Also, play with the EQs if you like. The Kick drum needs some top to punch through, don't crank the bottom end up too much. The snare also needs top end to cut through the mix.
Get the drummer to play a beat with lots of fills. Only now play with the faders. Set the kick first to a good loud overall level, but with some "headroom" - not maxed out on the fader. Then use your ears and adjust the other faders as necessary to make the drums sound "right".
Now do the guitars. I'm assuming you'll be micing the amps up? Same deal. Bass first, get him/her to play as loud as they will be on the gig. Set the gain on the channel using the PFL button and observing the levels. Now get the drummer to play again, and set the bass fader to fit in. Then do the guitars. Same deal, set the gain to get a good signal, then set the fader in the mix somewhere. Never max anything out, you want leeway to adjust everything up or down during the gig if the room starts sounding different with people in.
Then do the vocals. Get them to "one-two" into the mics. Then sing. Set the gain, adjust the EQ on the channel to get a good warm vocal sound. Then get the band to play a song, and set the faders in the mix.
If you find the vocals aren't loud enough, bring everything else down proportionally, turn the overall master fader up a bit, and get the vocals to sit on top that way, remember, never max any of the faders out, you need the headroom.
That's about it. Remember to use your ears. Never sit back and just enjoy the songs, always think, is this loud enough, is that overpowering the rest of the mix... Adjust the little details on the fly, and you should get a good mix.
Mic and wire everything up. Get yourself in a position out front.
Start with the drummer, get him to hit the kick drum over and over. Press the PFL (pre-fade level) button on that channel, and the green level lights indicate the signal level above the master faders. Ad just the gain on that channel until it never quite goes over zero dB. It shouldn't be peaking out. Then unpress the PFL button. Do the same with the snare, PFL, set the gain so it's not quite peaking on the loudest hits. Then the hi-hats, tom mics, overheads etc. You've not got a decent, undistorted signal from all the drum mics coming into the desk, and you can now mix them. Also, play with the EQs if you like. The Kick drum needs some top to punch through, don't crank the bottom end up too much. The snare also needs top end to cut through the mix.
Get the drummer to play a beat with lots of fills. Only now play with the faders. Set the kick first to a good loud overall level, but with some "headroom" - not maxed out on the fader. Then use your ears and adjust the other faders as necessary to make the drums sound "right".
Now do the guitars. I'm assuming you'll be micing the amps up? Same deal. Bass first, get him/her to play as loud as they will be on the gig. Set the gain on the channel using the PFL button and observing the levels. Now get the drummer to play again, and set the bass fader to fit in. Then do the guitars. Same deal, set the gain to get a good signal, then set the fader in the mix somewhere. Never max anything out, you want leeway to adjust everything up or down during the gig if the room starts sounding different with people in.
Then do the vocals. Get them to "one-two" into the mics. Then sing. Set the gain, adjust the EQ on the channel to get a good warm vocal sound. Then get the band to play a song, and set the faders in the mix.
If you find the vocals aren't loud enough, bring everything else down proportionally, turn the overall master fader up a bit, and get the vocals to sit on top that way, remember, never max any of the faders out, you need the headroom.
That's about it. Remember to use your ears. Never sit back and just enjoy the songs, always think, is this loud enough, is that overpowering the rest of the mix... Adjust the little details on the fly, and you should get a good mix.
Edited by timbob on Saturday 5th April 15:32
Some good advice here but an awfully broad subject for a few posts to cover! I would echo the poster who suggested getting onto the Sound on Sound forum - but be very polite when you ask as some of the serious engineers can get really arsey if you don't ask nicely!
Also, something I got taught when I was studying Audio Engineering that I found very useful:
When you sit down at a desk, you are bewildered by the number of faders and nobs and buttons and wonder how the hell you're going to work out what to do with them all. The thing is, pretty much all of them do the same thing but for different tracks. All you really need to learn is the Master Fader section and one channel. Then you can work a desk. It doesn't matter if it's got 4 channels, 8 channels or 128 channels - if you can work one channel, you can work them all so keep that in your mind and don't panic!
Also, if you are having trouble getting a sound out or something's feeding back, remember that signal flow is logical. Work backwards and then forwards and see where your mistake is and don't worry about being rushed - it's always the quickest way. A common mistake is to start grabbing faders and twisting stuff at random and you will just make it worse!
Good luck!
Also, something I got taught when I was studying Audio Engineering that I found very useful:
When you sit down at a desk, you are bewildered by the number of faders and nobs and buttons and wonder how the hell you're going to work out what to do with them all. The thing is, pretty much all of them do the same thing but for different tracks. All you really need to learn is the Master Fader section and one channel. Then you can work a desk. It doesn't matter if it's got 4 channels, 8 channels or 128 channels - if you can work one channel, you can work them all so keep that in your mind and don't panic!
Also, if you are having trouble getting a sound out or something's feeding back, remember that signal flow is logical. Work backwards and then forwards and see where your mistake is and don't worry about being rushed - it's always the quickest way. A common mistake is to start grabbing faders and twisting stuff at random and you will just make it worse!
Good luck!
You need to buy this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Recording-Practice-J...
It is the Bible for anyone wanting to work in sound. I highly recommend it.
If you have any questions drop me a line, I'm a sound recordist as well as a TV cameraman and know a thing or two about this.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sound-Recording-Practice-J...
It is the Bible for anyone wanting to work in sound. I highly recommend it.
If you have any questions drop me a line, I'm a sound recordist as well as a TV cameraman and know a thing or two about this.
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