Guns n' Roses chinese democracy

[coolcatmaz]

I bought the album today so am in the process of giving it some air play.

from me at the moment


however, need to go buy a new compact disc player as mine has just gone up in smoke and I've had to resort to the laptop for now

[JaymzDead]

Fire99 said:

On some of the Rock Forums there are comments that some of it tips its hat to 'Promised Land' era Queensryche.

That's piqued my interest actually 'cos I love that album, although I think I'm one of the few that does!

Edited by JaymzDead on Saturday 6th December 15:37

[Fire99]

JaymzDead said:

Fire99 said:

On some of the Rock Forums there are comments that some of it tips its hat to 'Promised Land' era Queensryche.

That's piqued my interest actually 'cos I love that album, although I think I'm one of the few that does!

Well i can see why the reference but it's a fairly subtle reference IMO.. If you get my point.
I think Promised Land is an ace album.. Though some of the later ones got a bit more patchy.

[gbbird]

'Better' is fast becoming my favourite song of the moment.

This album really is very good - would recommend it to any GnR/Rock/Metal fans.

g

[peterpeter]

is "There was a time" being released as a single?

Ive been hearing it on the radio quite a bit.

[coolcatmaz]

gbbird said:

'Better' is fast becoming my favourite song of the moment.

This album really is very good - would recommend it to any GnR/Rock/Metal fans.

g

I'm pleasantly surprised at how good some of the tracks are, with 'Sorry' showing a slightly more tender side of GnR.

[JaymzDead]

Fire99 said:

JaymzDead said:

Fire99 said:

On some of the Rock Forums there are comments that some of it tips its hat to 'Promised Land' era Queensryche.

That's piqued my interest actually 'cos I love that album, although I think I'm one of the few that does!

Well i can see why the reference but it's a fairly subtle reference IMO.. If you get my point.
I think Promised Land is an ace album.. Though some of the later ones got a bit more patchy.

Ah right, still I think I will buy it after Xmas if I don't get it as a prezzie, anyone that knew mw growing up knows I was a huge GNR fan back in the day so I may well get it on Xmas day. With regards to the later Queensyche stuff, I lost interest after Degarmo left, he was the main songwriter and you can really tell he's not there on the later albums, especially when he pops up again on the three tracks on Tribe (they make the album bearable IMHO!!)

[crofty1984]

peterpeter said:

I like it because it does sound 10 years old!

Its really growing on me.

Catcher in the rye,
There was a time
Better
IRS
Madagascar
Street of dreams
Prostitute
Shacklers revenge.....all really strong songs.

I know why you didn't put Rhiyad and the bedouins in that list: It's because it's st, isn't it?
Though a big thumbs up for the rest of the album from me.

[peterpeter]

crofty1984 said:

peterpeter said:

I like it because it does sound 10 years old!

Its really growing on me.

Catcher in the rye,
There was a time
Better
IRS
Madagascar
Street of dreams
Prostitute
Shacklers revenge.....all really strong songs.

I know why you didn't put Rhiyad and the bedouins in that list: It's because it's st, isn't it?
Though a big thumbs up for the rest of the album from me.

damn right

[Podie]

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

[Yugguy]

I'm enjoying it but I can't help thinking Axl should have released it as a solo album under his name and it would have got more favourable reviews without being under the shadow of GnR. A lot of the tracks are very good, but there's too many musicians for it to have a coherent sound as a new incarnation of GnR.

[gbbird]

Podie said:

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

What do you mean by 'over produced'? This seems to be a tag line picked up by many a critic of the album, but i am not sure what everyone is getting at? I don't think it is, when compared to most other offerings coming out today. OK, there have been some strange goings on around 'reamping' Axls voice and what not, but to me it does not sound any more overproduced than other typical rock releases of today.

[thehawk]

gbbird said:

Podie said:

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

What do you mean by 'over produced'? This seems to be a tag line picked up by many a critic of the album, but i am not sure what everyone is getting at? I don't think it is, when compared to most other offerings coming out today. OK, there have been some strange goings on around 'reamping' Axls voice and what not, but to me it does not sound any more overproduced than other typical rock releases of today.

I don't know how to describe over-produced easily, but a prime example would be The Scorpions latest CD - Humanity. Just too 'clean' sounding, almost as if they aren't real instruments and it was made on the latest synth/sampler.

[Podie]

thehawk said:

gbbird said:

Podie said:

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

What do you mean by 'over produced'? This seems to be a tag line picked up by many a critic of the album, but i am not sure what everyone is getting at? I don't think it is, when compared to most other offerings coming out today. OK, there have been some strange goings on around 'reamping' Axls voice and what not, but to me it does not sound any more overproduced than other typical rock releases of today.

I don't know how to describe over-produced easily, but a prime example would be The Scorpions latest CD - Humanity. Just too 'clean' sounding, almost as if they aren't real instruments and it was made on the latest synth/sampler.

Bingo - the vocals and instruments sound artificial, and that's what I mean by over produced. For a good example, listen to Oasis' Definitely Maybe, then one of their newer albums - or even listen to Appetite for Destruction followed by Chinese Democracy.

The early albums in both cases sound "raw" - like it was put onto the album as it was recorded. The whole thing is fluid. Compare that to modern releases, and by comparison they seem too perfect, but the emotion of playing the instruments are lost.

That's what I mean by over prodcued.

[gbbird]

Podie said:

thehawk said:

gbbird said:

Podie said:

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

What do you mean by 'over produced'? This seems to be a tag line picked up by many a critic of the album, but i am not sure what everyone is getting at? I don't think it is, when compared to most other offerings coming out today. OK, there have been some strange goings on around 'reamping' Axls voice and what not, but to me it does not sound any more overproduced than other typical rock releases of today.

I don't know how to describe over-produced easily, but a prime example would be The Scorpions latest CD - Humanity. Just too 'clean' sounding, almost as if they aren't real instruments and it was made on the latest synth/sampler.

Bingo - the vocals and instruments sound artificial, and that's what I mean by over produced. For a good example, listen to Oasis' Definitely Maybe, then one of their newer albums - or even listen to Appetite for Destruction followed by Chinese Democracy.

The early albums in both cases sound "raw" - like it was put onto the album as it was recorded. The whole thing is fluid. Compare that to modern releases, and by comparison they seem too perfect, but the emotion of playing the instruments are lost.

That's what I mean by over prodcued.

OK, i see where you are coming from now. But, what makes Chinese Democracy more 'overproduced' than say Trivium's latest offering, or Metallicca for that matter? If by over produced you mean 'clean and clinical sounding' then a load of albums are guilty of this. Plus i don't think Chinses Democracy sounds that clean anyway (admittedly it is not Appetite, but to me sounds very similiar is production/execution to UTY1 & 2.) Conversely, albums could be over produced to make them sound raw - as you know, it is amazing what effects and gadgetery is used in this day and age, and indeed over the last 15 years or so. I just don't understand why this particular album is being singled out for this accusation.

[Podie]

gbbird said:

Podie said:

thehawk said:

gbbird said:

Podie said:

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

What do you mean by 'over produced'? This seems to be a tag line picked up by many a critic of the album, but i am not sure what everyone is getting at? I don't think it is, when compared to most other offerings coming out today. OK, there have been some strange goings on around 'reamping' Axls voice and what not, but to me it does not sound any more overproduced than other typical rock releases of today.

I don't know how to describe over-produced easily, but a prime example would be The Scorpions latest CD - Humanity. Just too 'clean' sounding, almost as if they aren't real instruments and it was made on the latest synth/sampler.

Bingo - the vocals and instruments sound artificial, and that's what I mean by over produced. For a good example, listen to Oasis' Definitely Maybe, then one of their newer albums - or even listen to Appetite for Destruction followed by Chinese Democracy.

The early albums in both cases sound "raw" - like it was put onto the album as it was recorded. The whole thing is fluid. Compare that to modern releases, and by comparison they seem too perfect, but the emotion of playing the instruments are lost.

That's what I mean by over prodcued.

OK, i see where you are coming from now. But, what makes Chinese Democracy more 'overproduced' than say Trivium's latest offering, or Metallicca for that matter? If by over produced you mean 'clean and clinical sounding' then a load of albums are guilty of this. Plus i don't think Chinses Democracy sounds that clean anyway (admittedly it is not Appetite, but to me sounds very similiar is production/execution to UTY1 & 2.) Conversely, albums could be over produced to make them sound raw - as you know, it is amazing what effects and gadgetery is used in this day and age, and indeed over the last 15 years or so. I just don't understand why this particular album is being singled out for this accusation.

I’m not sure this album is being “singled out” – I’ve not seen a thread on either Trivium’s or Metallica’s latest albums…

It’s not just clean and clinical – the point is there are sounds in there that can only be produced in the studio – but yes, I agree many bands are guilty of this. Personally I think that with each album (Appetite / UYI 1&2 / CD) the amount of post-production work has increased, and you can hear that in the way it sounds. As I stated earlier, I think that played live, it would be a far better sound and the album would sound more cohesive.

[Yugguy]

"Sorry" sounds like a Black Sabbath track, both the vocals and the guiter are very Sabbath-esque.

[gbbird]

Podie said:

gbbird said:

Podie said:

thehawk said:

gbbird said:

Podie said:

Podie said:

It's average (at best) IMO.

A few reasonable efforts on there, but over produced and just sounds... "flat" and unoriginal.

15 years ago it would have been a logical progression from Use Your Illusion, but now (sadly) it just seems outdated.

Well, it's grown on me. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I like it. Lyrically it's as good as GnR ever was, and in places the guitar work is bloody good - but it does seem to lack some soul. Interestingly the bass is less prevalent than previous works, but I put this down to Axl running the show completely. Shame it's 15 years too late really.

It is still over produced... but if they bring out a live version, that little issue may well be solved.

What do you mean by 'over produced'? This seems to be a tag line picked up by many a critic of the album, but i am not sure what everyone is getting at? I don't think it is, when compared to most other offerings coming out today. OK, there have been some strange goings on around 'reamping' Axls voice and what not, but to me it does not sound any more overproduced than other typical rock releases of today.

I don't know how to describe over-produced easily, but a prime example would be The Scorpions latest CD - Humanity. Just too 'clean' sounding, almost as if they aren't real instruments and it was made on the latest synth/sampler.

Bingo - the vocals and instruments sound artificial, and that's what I mean by over produced. For a good example, listen to Oasis' Definitely Maybe, then one of their newer albums - or even listen to Appetite for Destruction followed by Chinese Democracy.

The early albums in both cases sound "raw" - like it was put onto the album as it was recorded. The whole thing is fluid. Compare that to modern releases, and by comparison they seem too perfect, but the emotion of playing the instruments are lost.

That's what I mean by over prodcued.

OK, i see where you are coming from now. But, what makes Chinese Democracy more 'overproduced' than say Trivium's latest offering, or Metallicca for that matter? If by over produced you mean 'clean and clinical sounding' then a load of albums are guilty of this. Plus i don't think Chinses Democracy sounds that clean anyway (admittedly it is not Appetite, but to me sounds very similiar is production/execution to UTY1 & 2.) Conversely, albums could be over produced to make them sound raw - as you know, it is amazing what effects and gadgetery is used in this day and age, and indeed over the last 15 years or so. I just don't understand why this particular album is being singled out for this accusation.

I’m not sure this album is being “singled out” – I’ve not seen a thread on either Trivium’s or Metallica’s latest albums…

It’s not just clean and clinical – the point is there are sounds in there that can only be produced in the studio – but yes, I agree many bands are guilty of this. Personally I think that with each album (Appetite / UYI 1&2 / CD) the amount of post-production work has increased, and you can hear that in the way it sounds. As I stated earlier, I think that played live, it would be a far better sound and the album would sound more cohesive.

Conversely, the fact that it does not sound cohesive as you suggest (i happen to think it does), could mean 'under production' and a lack of tinkering at the mastering stage?

Agree RE the live sound. This is usually the thing that makes or breaks a band. Looked up a few live performances of songs from the album on You tube, and i think thery sound OK, and in the case of Better, remarkably similiar to the album recording.

Edited by gbbird on Friday 12th December 11:30

[Podie]

Sorry, nested quotes were doing my fruit...

gbbird said:

Conversely, the fact that it does not sound cohesive (as you suggest, i happen to think it does), could mean 'under production' and a lack of tinkering at the mastering stage?

Agree RE the live sound. This is usually the thing that makes or breaks a band. Looked up a few live performances of songs from the album on You tube, and i think thery sound OK, and in the case of Better, remarkably similiar to the album recording.

Yes, I suppose it could mean "under-prodcued" but to me it sounds like there has been too much tinkering afterwards.

Live performances have always been a make or break thing for a band. I can't currently access YouTube (although it's hardly the last word in quality audio reproduction). I'll have a listen tonight.

I'm not sure what you're driving at? You asked for my definition of over-produced, I've given you that - and although you clearly disagree, I am entitled to hold that opinoin.

[gbbird]

Podie said:

I'm not sure what you're driving at? You asked for my definition of over-produced, I've given you that - and although you clearly disagree, I am entitled to hold that opinoin.

Absolutely - just enjoying a healthy debate RE music