Guns n' Roses chinese democracy

[Podie]

gbbird said:

Podie said:

I'm not sure what you're driving at? You asked for my definition of over-produced, I've given you that - and although you clearly disagree, I am entitled to hold that opinoin.

Absolutely - just enjoying a healthy debate RE music

Sorry chap, man flu

Everything sounds too perfect, there's no string squeak for example. Now whilst I appreciate equipment moves on, and recording techniques improve - I actually miss that. Listen to early tracks and you can pick up on that.. maybe Slash is a lazy player and the new guy isn't..?

If it's not over produced, then WTF has Axl been doing for 17 years..?

[gbbird]

Podie said:

gbbird said:

Podie said:

I'm not sure what you're driving at? You asked for my definition of over-produced, I've given you that - and although you clearly disagree, I am entitled to hold that opinoin.

Absolutely - just enjoying a healthy debate RE music

Sorry chap, man flu

Everything sounds too perfect, there's no string squeak for example. Now whilst I appreciate equipment moves on, and recording techniques improve - I actually miss that. Listen to early tracks and you can pick up on that.. maybe Slash is a lazy player and the new guy isn't..?

If it's not over produced, then WTF has Axl been doing for 17 years..?

Indeed, it is a ridiculously long time. I know he has been involved in other projects (did some vocals on the new Seb Bach album) but surely he could not have spet 17 years just doing this and nothing else. I bet the record company were getting a tad impatient.

Funnily enough, RE your musings on guitarists and Slash, there are comments on YouTube saying that the musicians, and in particualr the guitarists, on Chinese Democracy are excellent, and some even go further to say that technically they are better than Slash, and that he (Slash) was indeed quite a lazy player, but with soul - that one thing that makes the truly godlike axemen stand out from just mere guitar mortals.

[Podie]

gbbird said:

Funnily enough, RE your musings on guitarists and Slash, there are comments on YouTube saying that the musicians, and in particualr the guitarists, on Chinese Democracy are excellent, and some even go further to say that technically they are better than Slash, and that he (Slash) was indeed quite a lazy player, but with soul - that one thing that makes the truly godlike axemen stand out from just mere guitar mortals.

I think that's the key actually. Whilst many players are technically more competent, they don't have the "feel" or "soul" of others. Whilst anyone can (in theory) learn to play, it's what's expressed that makes the difference.

Perhaps that's why is sounds different to me. Maybe it IS too cohesive, maybe it's technically too polished... rather than having the cracked veneer of previous albums...

[S7Paul]

Podie said:

gbbird said:

Funnily enough, RE your musings on guitarists and Slash, there are comments on YouTube saying that the musicians, and in particualr the guitarists, on Chinese Democracy are excellent, and some even go further to say that technically they are better than Slash, and that he (Slash) was indeed quite a lazy player, but with soul - that one thing that makes the truly godlike axemen stand out from just mere guitar mortals.

I think that's the key actually. Whilst many players are technically more competent, they don't have the "feel" or "soul" of others. Whilst anyone can (in theory) learn to play, it's what's expressed that makes the difference.

Perhaps that's why is sounds different to me. Maybe it IS too cohesive, maybe it's technically too polished... rather than having the cracked veneer of previous albums...

Slightly off topic, but that's something that I've often thought too. There are some guitarists that are undoubtedly technically brilliant, but just leave me cold. On the other hand, there are a few (Slash, Angus Young, Dave Gilmour & Billy Gibbons spring to mind) that seem able to convey so much feeling in just one or two notes. For me, they are the true greats.

[Fire99]

S7Paul said:

Slightly off topic, but that's something that I've often thought too. There are some guitarists that are undoubtedly technically brilliant, but just leave me cold. On the other hand, there are a few (Slash, Angus Young, Dave Gilmour & Billy Gibbons spring to mind) that seem able to convey so much feeling in just one or two notes. For me, they are the true greats.

I agree,

I think Eddie Van Halen has a rare gift that he has amazing technical ability but can still play very emotive guitar. Still one of the best in the world.

Joe Satriani i think can express emotion along with Eric Johnson. Vai is brilliant but can be almost too technically perfect.

Saying that, i think Adrian Vandenberg is underrated. On Whitesnakes 'Restless Heart' album he played some amazing blues-rock guitar.

Richie Sambora certainly can put some emotion in his playing and John Norum of Europe rates highly. Oh and Michael Schenker i think can/could express well.

Back on topic a touch, i think the last solo on 'Better' is a fine piece of work. Not complicated but has a nice feel to it.

[coolcatmaz]

Fire99 said:

S7Paul said:

Slightly off topic, but that's something that I've often thought too. There are some guitarists that are undoubtedly technically brilliant, but just leave me cold. On the other hand, there are a few (Slash, Angus Young, Dave Gilmour & Billy Gibbons spring to mind) that seem able to convey so much feeling in just one or two notes. For me, they are the true greats.

John Norum of Europe rates highly.

Blimey, good old Europe, remember seeing them in concert back when I was 18 and still one of the best concerts I have been to

[Fire99]

coolcatmaz said:

Blimey, good old Europe, remember seeing them in concert back when I was 18 and still one of the best concerts I have been to

Check out some of their post-2003 stuff on youtube. Quite different from the 'Final Countdown' era. But even after all these years they are a class act.
And Joey Tempest seems to have defied time..

[coolcatmaz]

Fire99 said:

coolcatmaz said:

Blimey, good old Europe, remember seeing them in concert back when I was 18 and still one of the best concerts I have been to

Check out some of their post-2003 stuff on youtube. Quite different from the 'Final Countdown' era. But even after all these years they are a class act.
And Joey Tempest seems to have defied time..

Thanks for that, I'd forgot how good some of the tracks were. It was the Prisoners in Paradise concert that I went to

really should get a copy of the album, not sure whatever happened to my original

[Fire99]

coolcatmaz said:

Thanks for that, I'd forgot how good some of the tracks were. It was the Prisoners in Paradise concert that I went to

really should get a copy of the album, not sure whatever happened to my original

Sorry all if this is off topic

Prisoners in Paradise is a cracking album. Unfortunately appeared at a tricky time for Rock and i dont think it sold in huge numbers.. It had Kee Marcello instead of John Norum on guitar.. But you probably know that..

'Start from the Dark' and 'Secret Society' are the latest albums. Much heavier, downtuned and stripped back than 'Prisoners..' days. (Especially 'Start from the Dark') but still a good listen.

'Secret Society' i've really warmed to.

Sorry back to GnR..

[zax]

I've been trying my best to like it, but have to agree with those who think it's a bit over produced and lacking in "soul". Pity, because there are some good songs on there...

[Yugguy]

Like I said earlier, it's not a GnR album, it's a solo album for Axl with guest musicians.

[Podie]

zax said:

I've been trying my best to like it, but have to agree with those who think it's a bit over produced and lacking in "soul". Pity, because there are some good songs on there...

In light of the discussion with gbbird, I've tried to listen to it in a different way. I've tried to drop all the preconceived ideas of what a GnR album should sound like.

If you listen to it in isolation, and take it at face value, it's actually quite good... in fact, I'm finding it's a realy "grower" of an album.

I've really got into Chinese Democracy, If The World, There Was A Time, Sorry, I.R.S., Madagascar and This I Love - but I'm finding the others not quite as engaging.

If you take out the 17 years it's taken to appear, it's not a bad album at all. In fact, I wonder what the reception would have been if the album had been released under a different name...?

[crofty1984]

for those that are interested, Axl went on some fan forums at the weekend under the name "Dexter" and answered a load of questions about himself, the band and the album. It's an interesting read in parts.

[peterpeter]

There was a time is a pretty epic track

[Fire99]

crofty1984 said:

for those that are interested, Axl went on some fan forums at the weekend under the name "Dexter" and answered a load of questions about himself, the band and the album. It's an interesting read in parts.

Yeah i went onto the forums and took a look. To be fair to Axl it's pretty bold of him to take on the Forums. As shown on here all the time, it doesn't take 5 minutes for someone to start hurling abuse.

He seemed pretty honest and was prepared to answer awkward questions about the line-up, Axl 'Solo' record, lack of album promotion etc.

[funk odyssey]

crofty1984 said:

for those that are interested, Axl went on some fan forums at the weekend under the name "Dexter" and answered a load of questions about himself, the band and the album. It's an interesting read in parts.

have you a got a link?

[gbbird]

Podie said:

zax said:

I've been trying my best to like it, but have to agree with those who think it's a bit over produced and lacking in "soul". Pity, because there are some good songs on there...

In light of the discussion with gbbird, I've tried to listen to it in a different way. I've tried to drop all the preconceived ideas of what a GnR album should sound like.

If you listen to it in isolation, and take it at face value, it's actually quite good... in fact, I'm finding it's a realy "grower" of an album.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Podie. I was never a massive GnR fan in the early days, so when this one came out, i listened to it without any comparison to the earlier stuff, and dealt with it simply as a new rock/metal album by a new band. By doing this, i came to the conclusion that it was an exellent CD

[gbbird]

funk odyssey said:

crofty1984 said:

for those that are interested, Axl went on some fan forums at the weekend under the name "Dexter" and answered a load of questions about himself, the band and the album. It's an interesting read in parts.

have you a got a link?

transcript here

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5578

[Chris71]

gbbird said:

funk odyssey said:

crofty1984 said:

for those that are interested, Axl went on some fan forums at the weekend under the name "Dexter" and answered a load of questions about himself, the band and the album. It's an interesting read in parts.

have you a got a link?

transcript here

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5578

Makes for interesting reading. No revelations, but very much worth a browse!

[coolcatmaz]

I'll take a read of that when I get 2 ticks later