£7k - reliable - good off road ?
Discussion
Pay N Play sites can be a bit brutal. Not sure I'd personally want to take a £7k vehicle to one. As the risk of damage is normally high.
The Jeep WK IMO stands out as a nice vehicle. Modern and comfy on the road and capable off road. But it is still a longish vehicle with big plastic bumpers. So I can see it would be easy to damage at a pay n play site. They are also IFS. So don't have the flex of a live axle. The QD2 system is essentially automatic lockers. So it can keep ALL it's wheels spinning. But will be prone to lifting a wheel more often than older Jeeps.
They are also fairly low ground clearance stock. So will probably need a 2" lift kit for this kind of use.
The Jeep Commander is essentially a WK but with a bit bigger body. Just to let you know another alternative.
However your budget would get you other past Jeeps. You could get a kitted out one, maybe even with LPG if you did fancy petrol. The WJ Grand Cherokee is a really nice vehicle. And the Cherokee XJ is just awesome.
If you fancy a more rugged 4x4 then you should be able to find a Santana PS-10 in budget. Santana used to build CKD's for Labd Rover. But also developed their own variations. The PS-10 is a development of the Land Rover 109 and is arguably better than a Defender 110 in many areas.
The Jeep WK IMO stands out as a nice vehicle. Modern and comfy on the road and capable off road. But it is still a longish vehicle with big plastic bumpers. So I can see it would be easy to damage at a pay n play site. They are also IFS. So don't have the flex of a live axle. The QD2 system is essentially automatic lockers. So it can keep ALL it's wheels spinning. But will be prone to lifting a wheel more often than older Jeeps.
They are also fairly low ground clearance stock. So will probably need a 2" lift kit for this kind of use.
The Jeep Commander is essentially a WK but with a bit bigger body. Just to let you know another alternative.
However your budget would get you other past Jeeps. You could get a kitted out one, maybe even with LPG if you did fancy petrol. The WJ Grand Cherokee is a really nice vehicle. And the Cherokee XJ is just awesome.
If you fancy a more rugged 4x4 then you should be able to find a Santana PS-10 in budget. Santana used to build CKD's for Labd Rover. But also developed their own variations. The PS-10 is a development of the Land Rover 109 and is arguably better than a Defender 110 in many areas.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Jesus wept- I struggled to find a reasonable number of troopers to view and buy.
Just how many Santannas out there for the OP to view ?
So helpful
Why be like that?Just how many Santannas out there for the OP to view ?
So helpful
There are usually some on eBay although not much at the mo. There is one for £4K which has potential.
300bhp/ton said:
Pay N Play sites can be a bit brutal. Not sure I'd personally want to take a £7k vehicle to one. As the risk of damage is normally high.
The Jeep WK IMO stands out as a nice vehicle. Modern and comfy on the road and capable off road. But it is still a longish vehicle with big plastic bumpers. So I can see it would be easy to damage at a pay n play site. They are also IFS. So don't have the flex of a live axle. The QD2 system is essentially automatic lockers. So it can keep ALL it's wheels spinning. But will be prone to lifting a wheel more often than older Jeeps.
They are also fairly low ground clearance stock. So will probably need a 2" lift kit for this kind of use.
The Jeep Commander is essentially a WK but with a bit bigger body. Just to let you know another alternative.
However your budget would get you other past Jeeps. You could get a kitted out one, maybe even with LPG if you did fancy petrol. The WJ Grand Cherokee is a really nice vehicle. And the Cherokee XJ is just awesome.
If you fancy a more rugged 4x4 then you should be able to find a Santana PS-10 in budget. Santana used to build CKD's for Labd Rover. But also developed their own variations. The PS-10 is a development of the Land Rover 109 and is arguably better than a Defender 110 in many areas.
Whilst I appreciate all suggestions, I dont know if you saw my post about doing a 3000 mile round trip once a year to southern spain. A car like that would very probably turn me insane by the time I got there, never mind back.The Jeep WK IMO stands out as a nice vehicle. Modern and comfy on the road and capable off road. But it is still a longish vehicle with big plastic bumpers. So I can see it would be easy to damage at a pay n play site. They are also IFS. So don't have the flex of a live axle. The QD2 system is essentially automatic lockers. So it can keep ALL it's wheels spinning. But will be prone to lifting a wheel more often than older Jeeps.
They are also fairly low ground clearance stock. So will probably need a 2" lift kit for this kind of use.
The Jeep Commander is essentially a WK but with a bit bigger body. Just to let you know another alternative.
However your budget would get you other past Jeeps. You could get a kitted out one, maybe even with LPG if you did fancy petrol. The WJ Grand Cherokee is a really nice vehicle. And the Cherokee XJ is just awesome.
If you fancy a more rugged 4x4 then you should be able to find a Santana PS-10 in budget. Santana used to build CKD's for Labd Rover. But also developed their own variations. The PS-10 is a development of the Land Rover 109 and is arguably better than a Defender 110 in many areas.
Hainey said:
A really nice Disco 2 if you don't fancy the Disco 3 supension and spun bearing gamble and keep the rest in a play/bork/upgrade/fun fund.
I'm sure there are issues with the Disco 2 suspension as well, I always read about the "3 Amigos"? and I've seen quite a few for sale that have been swapped onto coil springs. Not sure if this is a good thing or not, guessing it must be or just a cheap fix? A bit like fitting "ditch finder" tyres when a car hit's a certain age because decent ones are too expensive 
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Could you get a normal cheap to run car, such as a focus, and a rough modified 4x4 to play with?
I did think about this and your post has made me think about it even more now, the only downsides are two lots of insurance, two lots of tax etc. I keep looking at a manual 3.2 boxster for £5500 - £6000 and then something four wheel drive with a years MOT for the remaining £1,000.I've thought about having something like a off-road only Jimny that I trailered to pay and plays with something like an older Jeep, although i'm 27 so can only have a combined 3.5 tons for everything so i'm not sure on that.
NickColl89 said:
Whilst I appreciate all suggestions, I dont know if you saw my post about doing a 3000 mile round trip once a year to southern spain. A car like that would very probably turn me insane by the time I got there, never mind back.
Not sure I follow. One of the most common overland vehicles are Defenders. I have several friends that have driven to Morocco, Finland, Malta and other places in Defenders. A PS-10 will match a Defender in this role. NickColl89 said:
I'm sure there are issues with the Disco 2 suspension as well, I always read about the "3 Amigos"? and I've seen quite a few for sale that have been swapped onto coil springs. Not sure if this is a good thing or not, guessing it must be or just a cheap fix? A bit like fitting "ditch finder" tyres when a car hit's a certain age because decent ones are too expensive
D2's could be had with coil springs or coil front and air rear. 3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
300bhp/ton said:
D2's could be had with coil springs or coil front and air rear.
3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
Thanks for clarifying that, didn't realise it was coil all round or air rear only, I'm guessing this was for heavy towing etc.3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
He said "No thanks" -
I've once read about a guy who took a Porsche to South Africa, but that does not make it the obvious choice, or make me bleat on every time someone asks for a 4x4 for their farm track that a 925 is the answer, if you do this, that and jack it up with the right tyres etc.
Do you think per chance those taking Defenders to "Morocco, Finland, Malta" enjoy the overland adventure / challenge and making an expedition of it - versus the OP who simply wants his car / 4x4 to be Transportation to get to Southern Spain - aka Car like comfort, speed and manners ?
Chip, shoulder??I've once read about a guy who took a Porsche to South Africa, but that does not make it the obvious choice, or make me bleat on every time someone asks for a 4x4 for their farm track that a 925 is the answer, if you do this, that and jack it up with the right tyres etc.
Do you think per chance those taking Defenders to "Morocco, Finland, Malta" enjoy the overland adventure / challenge and making an expedition of it - versus the OP who simply wants his car / 4x4 to be Transportation to get to Southern Spain - aka Car like comfort, speed and manners ?
300bhp/ton said:
Not sure I follow. One of the most common overland vehicles are Defenders. I have several friends that have driven to Morocco, Finland, Malta and other places in Defenders. A PS-10 will match a Defender in this role.
Yeah, as Paddy_N_Murphy says, I cant imagine travelling that distance in a PS-10 would be as refined as I might like but if there used in overland expeditions then who am I to say otherwise. I haven't tried one but I cant imagine sitting at 70mph in one for 500 miles a day over 3 days would be enjoyable, the sound proofing and road noise must be quite terrible as standard I would assume.NickColl89 said:
300bhp/ton said:
D2's could be had with coil springs or coil front and air rear.
3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
Thanks for clarifying that, didn't realise it was coil all round or air rear only, I'm guessing this was for heavy towing etc.3 amigos is about the TCS/ABS nothing suspension. A D2 has more electronics than a D1. But is no more difficult to maintain than any modern car that has multiple computer controlled electronics. Be it a Mondeo, BMW saloon or a Golf.
Mine was springs from the factory with ACE, which is all good and another really clever system. There are factory explanation videos on you tube about ACE if your interested.
As for the three amigos and the internet panic they sparked around 2006 onwards, it's no big deal. You can by the actuator from Wabco and its easy to fix. All the issues are known now and can be fixed very cheaply.
If you are driving to Spain, I think the D2 or D3 would be great choices personally. I quantify that statement as I lived in Southern Spain for over a year and I used to do that drive myself, before the silver highway was opened and a few times after.
Hainey said:
The airbags are great, they allow you to raise the car up and down from inside for towing and also the cars brain realises when the centre of the vehicle is 'beached' when off road and raises the rear to get you out of trouble. It's a really clever system and I wish mine had it!
Mine was springs from the factory with ACE, which is all good and another really clever system. There are factory explanation videos on you tube about ACE if your interested.
As for the three amigos and the internet panic they sparked around 2006 onwards, it's no big deal. You can by the actuator from Wabco and its easy to fix. All the issues are known now and can be fixed very cheaply.
If you are driving to Spain, I think the D2 or D3 would be great choices personally. I quantify that statement as I lived in Southern Spain for over a year and I used to do that drive myself, before the silver highway was opened and a few times after.
Thanks for that info, what year is your disco? Have you had to start cutting and welding yet?Mine was springs from the factory with ACE, which is all good and another really clever system. There are factory explanation videos on you tube about ACE if your interested.
As for the three amigos and the internet panic they sparked around 2006 onwards, it's no big deal. You can by the actuator from Wabco and its easy to fix. All the issues are known now and can be fixed very cheaply.
If you are driving to Spain, I think the D2 or D3 would be great choices personally. I quantify that statement as I lived in Southern Spain for over a year and I used to do that drive myself, before the silver highway was opened and a few times after.
Mine is an early 99. No cutting or welding needed.
The trick is to buy one that has had an owner who realises these arent car's but more a light truck, and who maintains them accordingly. They do have propshafts and joints that need greased when serviced. They do have differentials that need fresh oil every 2 years. They do have a seperate chassis that needs inspected and treated with a corrosion resisting paint and then topped up on the yearly service etc.
These arent a Ford Focus. Sadly ignorant owners treat them as such then b
h and moan when something breaks through neglect, or new owners buy one that should have had all that work done two owners ago and get frustrated when they find they are paying for someone elses fun.
Find me a Ford Focus however that can haul 3 tonnes in safety and stability or take you up a scottish hillside in the foulest of weather and I'll tip my hat to it. Nevermind take all your stuff to Gibraltar and back yet never put a foot wrong in either the arid hills of Andalucia or the snowy mountains of the north.
As for a long journey, you just sit back, put the cruise on, enjoy the light and airy elevated driving position and point it to the sunset.
The trick is to buy one that has had an owner who realises these arent car's but more a light truck, and who maintains them accordingly. They do have propshafts and joints that need greased when serviced. They do have differentials that need fresh oil every 2 years. They do have a seperate chassis that needs inspected and treated with a corrosion resisting paint and then topped up on the yearly service etc.
These arent a Ford Focus. Sadly ignorant owners treat them as such then b
h and moan when something breaks through neglect, or new owners buy one that should have had all that work done two owners ago and get frustrated when they find they are paying for someone elses fun.Find me a Ford Focus however that can haul 3 tonnes in safety and stability or take you up a scottish hillside in the foulest of weather and I'll tip my hat to it. Nevermind take all your stuff to Gibraltar and back yet never put a foot wrong in either the arid hills of Andalucia or the snowy mountains of the north.
As for a long journey, you just sit back, put the cruise on, enjoy the light and airy elevated driving position and point it to the sunset.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
OP - just seen on my lunch two possibles:
Nissan Pathfinder,
or its bigger (older) brother, Nissan Patrol.
Initial Thoughts?
I've looked at the Pathfinder before, looks suspiciously like a Navara to me? I don't know if you know anything more about the underpinnings of it with regards to if they share a chassis or not but the Navara has massive issues with it splitting in half doesn't it? Nissan Pathfinder,
or its bigger (older) brother, Nissan Patrol.
Initial Thoughts?
If I was to go for the Patrol I think it would have to be the 4.2, there was a cracker on ebay about a week ago but they command a massive premium. I think they wanted £7,000 for it, similar prices to the 4.2 land cruisers.
MK1 Kia Sorento - a proper ladder chassis, reliable Merc diesel engine - make sure you get the one with lockable 4WD (XS not XE). I have a 2003 2.5D and it goes pretty well on a long run and good offroad, though I've not done anything too serious. The interior and leather quality on the Sorento is much better than you would expect.
Worth a look - things to look out for are peeling fuel tank lining and corroded rear mounts - Kia Sorento forum is worth a read.
Worth a look - things to look out for are peeling fuel tank lining and corroded rear mounts - Kia Sorento forum is worth a read.
Going to look at a Disco 3 either tonight or tomorrow, bog standard spec, coil springs, manual etc. that's been sold by a friend of the family's for cheap. Will update with pictures if I do the deal. This should also leave me with enough change to buy a clio 172 or 182 for track days. Something I've always wanted to try.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
NickColl89 said:
Going to look at a Disco 3 either tonight or tomorrow, bog standard spec, coil springs, manual etc. that's been sold by a friend of the family's for cheap. Will update with pictures if I do the deal. This should also leave me with enough change to buy a clio 172 or 182 for track days. Something I've always wanted to try.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
Just a heads up, a coil sprung D3 is the below base spec model (pretty much only sold in the UK, wasn't even offered in markets like the USA).Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
This isn't a bad thing exactly, but it will be lacking any of the modern toys. But more importantly is also lacks the Terrain Response System, it only comes with a basic traction control.
Without the air suspension they are also comparatively worse off road. The air suspension uses cross linked air bags, so as one wheel is pushed up, it automatically pushes the opposite wheel down. It does this to simulate how a live axle works off road. And makes the vehicle far more stable and capable.
The coil springs cannot do this. And of course you get much lower ground clearance too, as they aren't able to raise themselves up like the air suspension does.
If you aren't going to off road much then it's not an issue. The coil D3 will have similar off road abilities to a Freelander, just bigger and heavier. So wet grass, snow, even sand it'll be very good. But anything really rough or even deep tramlines, such as man green lanes, you find it's not as capable as you were expecting.
Also, to fit MT's on a D3, the normal route is to buy some lift rods/Johnsons Rods. These are small metal/plastic rods that set the air suspension height. Super easy to fit, about 10 mins and completely reversible. But it allows an air sprung D3 to run an inch or so higher, so you can fit bigger tyres without rubbing.
But it really comes down to how much off road use and the type you are expecting to do.
Or to paraphrase a coil spring D3 is too off roading what a 1.2 Clio would be as a track car, vs the air sprung D3 and Clio 182.
NickColl89 said:
Going to look at a Disco 3 either tonight or tomorrow, bog standard spec, coil springs, manual etc. that's been sold by a friend of the family's for cheap. Will update with pictures if I do the deal. This should also leave me with enough change to buy a clio 172 or 182 for track days. Something I've always wanted to try.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
I'll save bandwidth and not repeat what 300 said but he is right. That's the worst of the worst combination there is. I'd go as far as to say its a pastiche of what the D3 is capable of not just in off road ability but in all important ride comfort and driving flexibility with that pot stirring manual box that doesn't suit the car at all.Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions.
Good luck with it if you get it but be aware at the very least if you hate it you'll struggle to give it away unless you really mark it down. I don't know whats being asked for it so maybe its cheap enough you can do that but in context proper D3s can be had for 5/6k that are in good cared for condition and will have world of difference residuals.
I'd go as far as to say right now in the D2/3 market if you buy right you can have a years free running and sell it on in 12 months for what you paid for it. If you buy right that is.
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