Serious offroading - Range Rover, Shogun or Land Cruiser?

[SystemParanoia]

Rangerover isnt a bad choice

https://youtu.be/CkVw9OMaCI4?t=2m54s

[Walter Sobchak]

Range Rovers are lovely cars, very capable and a nice place to be but sorry, they do tend to break and are pretty expensive when they do.
I’ve moved over to a Landcruiser (Prado) after a few L322s and a Sport and it hasn’t caused any problems I’m not worrying what will go wrong next, the big Landcruiser is meant to be even tougher- the older ones anyway (80 and 100 series) I’d have loved one but just a bit too big and thirsty for normal use.
A friend has a 2010 Shogun and as far as I know hasn’t had any trouble with it either but don’t know what they’re like to live with.
Isn’t the Nissan Patrol meant to be up there with the Landcruisers as well?.

[Andy-SP2]

Slightly OT

My late wife spent most of her life in Rhodesia and drove to most of the towns in nothing more than a normal car... When she moved over here ( Salisbury, UK) she was rather surprised to see so many Range Rovers without a spot of mud..

[AngryPartsBloke]

donkmeister said:

I don't doubt the off-road ability of the Land Cruiser, but didn't Toyota do some very shrewd marketing by selling cheaply/giving them to the UN in order to bolster the "go anywhere" image?
Bicycle manufacturers sell a lot of very expensive road bikes in the UK that are unsuitable for use on UK roads but get usef thusly... If you looked on with the eyes of someone who had never visited the UK and took the "one sees a lot of them" view then people might think a carbon-framed slick-tyred velodrome special is a good choice for pedaling through drizzle and potholes...

the 79Series armoured Land Cruisers the UN have used since 2000 were sold by Jankel, not Toyota, so i'd question the accuracy of this.

[Ayahuasca]

Defender with winch, snorkel, hi-lift jack, a selection of tree savers, ropes, kinetic straps, VHF radio, shovel, axe, shackles, snatch blocks, and - vitally - mud terrain tyres.

All day long.

Oh, that is my car !

[NDA]

Ari said:

Fair question and must admit I'd not thought that deeply about it. I was watching a YouTube clip where they were using Shoguns in the desert and with Range Rover often reckoned to be about the best offroad capable vehicle and Land Cruisers the toughest, I was pondering what I'd use. Hence the question.

Interestingly in the desert (or at least the deserts I've been to) they all use Toyota Land Cruisers.

I have a full fat Range Rover which I have taken off road many times - also did a day's off roading course. The RR is an incredibly competent off roader and, depending on tyres, could probably go anywhere. A Bentley on stilts.

[Ayahuasca]

The other day did some mild off-roading on some muddy hilly jungle tracks, lots of river crossings and some deep pools, I was following a modded Disco 3 which made much heavier weather of it than me, despite a much more experienced driver. I put it down to the D3 being on All Terrain tyres and my car being on Mud Terrains. Tyre choice is vital, more so imho than vehicle choice.

[ST565NP]

Ayahuasca said:

... Tyre choice is vital, more so imho than vehicle choice.

Are your tyres bigger than the factory ones? And if yes, have you changed the gears in the gearbox to compensate having longer ratios because of the bigger tyres ?

[Ayahuasca]

ST565NP said:

Are your tyres bigger than the factory ones? And if yes, have you changed the gears in the gearbox to compensate having longer ratios because of the bigger tyres ?

Slightly bigger than factory. My car has a mild suspension lift. No, gearbox has not been changed, never noticed any issues with it.

[Jag_NE]

i dont think the LR vs Toyota argument stacks up the same in the uk as other countries as we have stacks of local LR indies and parts. yes the LR may break more often in but in rural uk or maybe even european locations the parts and labour may be far cheaper and accessible.

[Ayahuasca]

The LR vs Toyota thing bores the tits off me. I have the Defender pictured, my wife has a Toyota Land Cruiser (Prado version). Offroad, the Defender pisses all over the Toyota. They are equally reliable in normal use. My previous Toyota Land Cruiser died after stranding me during a river crossing that the Defender would not have even noticed.

This was my Toyota before it gave up the ghost.

Edited by Ayahuasca on Saturday 17th February 00:23

[GravelBen]

IIRC a Prado has more in common with a Hilux than a full fat Landcruiser under the skin, despite the name. I guess electronics are a relative weakness of all modern vehicles in water compared to simpler old designs.

In NZ and Aus the regular tribal argument about the toughest 4wd is Landcruiser vs Patrol/Safari (at least up until around 2000, after that the Patrols went soft). General conclusion seems to be LC stronger chassis, Patrol stronger drivertrain. Nothing else is really considered comparable among 4wd clubs etc - old Hiluxes are reliable but not as strong on the rough stuff.

Edited by GravelBen on Saturday 17th February 07:11

[Walter Sobchak]

NDA said:

Interestingly in the desert (or at least the deserts I've been to) they all use Toyota Land Cruisers.

I have a full fat Range Rover which I have taken off road many times - also did a day's off roading course. The RR is an incredibly competent off roader and, depending on tyres, could probably go anywhere. A Bentley on stilts.

Range Rovers are brilliant, I’ve had a few myself and definately have a soft spot for them, where they fall drastically short is reliability, to be fair though I’ve had trouble free ones one with a few niggles and one horrendous one-this was the one that drove me to get a Landcruiser, which is just as capable, built better.
If I’m being honest though it’s not as nice a place to be, I do miss a Rangie, I’ve just not quite forgiven the last one yet!.
Surely if I found a nice under 100k miles TDV8 with FSH and more importantly the gearbox oil changed when it was meant to be, not THAT much could go wrong?.

Edited by Walter Sobchak on Saturday 17th February 08:37

[Walter Sobchak]

NDA said:

Interestingly in the desert (or at least the deserts I've been to) they all use Toyota Land Cruisers.

I have a full fat Range Rover which I have taken off road many times - also did a day's off roading course. The RR is an incredibly competent off roader and, depending on tyres, could probably go anywhere. A Bentley on stilts.

Range Rovers are brilliant, I’ve had a few myself and definately have a soft spot for them, where they fall drastically short is reliability, to be fair though I’ve had trouble free ones one with a few niggles and one horrendous one-this was the one that drove me to get a Landcruiser, which is just as capable, built better.
If I’m being honest though it’s not as nice a place to be, I do miss a Rangie, I’ve just not quite forgiven the last one yet!.

[NDA]

Walter Sobchak said:

Range Rovers are brilliant, I’ve had a few myself and definately have a soft spot for them, where they fall drastically short is reliability, to be fair though I’ve had trouble free ones one with a few niggles and one horrendous one-this was the one that drove me to get a Landcruiser, which is just as capable, built better.

I have around 120,000 miles, from new, on my RR without any major issues. I drove it very hard and fast for about 5 years daily and now I no longer commute in it, it gets used more gently.

Minor issues have been the bluetooth phone connection system got damaged when the rubber seal to the boot failed. I think that's been it.

But I know people who have had reliability issues - so I'm one of the lucky ones.

[AW111]

Two friends of mine had Defenders. One was a second hand diesel that cracked the head : the dealer he bought it from basically said "they all do that".
The other one had to have the gearbox replaced, and sundry other mechanical woes.
My friends with LandCruisers (full size) and Patrols haven't had significant problems*.

• Steve's turbo petrol patrol has been through a few engines, but that's the price you pay for continually winding up the boost - now over 30 psi...

[Ayahuasca]

AW111 said:

Two friends of mine had Defenders. One was a second hand diesel that cracked the head : the dealer he bought it from basically said "they all do that".
The other one had to have the gearbox replaced, and sundry other mechanical woes.
My friends with LandCruisers (full size) and Patrols haven't had significant problems*.

• Steve's turbo petrol patrol has been through a few engines, but that's the price you pay for continually winding up the boost - now over 30 psi...

My Toyota Land Cruiser lunched its transmission. $15,000 for a new one. Transmission that is, not car.

My Defender has had no significant problems, only (relatively) minor ones and has been used much harder than the Toyota was.

[Walter Sobchak]

NDA said:

I have around 120,000 miles, from new, on my RR without any major issues. I drove it very hard and fast for about 5 years daily and now I no longer commute in it, it gets used more gently.

Minor issues have been the bluetooth phone connection system got damaged when the rubber seal to the boot failed. I think that's been it.

But I know people who have had reliability issues - so I'm one of the lucky ones.

The one that gave me all the problems was a Sport, the FFRRs I’ve had were relatively trouble free, one needed a headlight and a coolant hose, one needed an air suspension compressor.
With the Sport I think the gearbox failed because a previous owner didn’t change the fluid, which lumbered me with a near £3k bill.
The Landcruiser is ok and everything but I miss having a Rangie!.

[Ayahuasca]

The gods of irony have been reading this thread - I have to take my wife's Land Cruiser tomorrow because my Defender's clutch master cylinder has sprung a leak. Not going serious off-roading though.

[Shiv_P]

A Land Cruiser is however a normal car that is actually quite quiet, comfortable, well equipped and the interior is decent

A defender is utilitarian, quite slow for motorway driving, relatively loud and built to do 1 thing - off road