No wheels off...
Discussion
I have to say I am in support of it now. Which I never expected. Its a relief to have clearly defined track limits.
What clubs really need is a decent clerk of the course so that the enforcement of the rule and any penalties doesn't become too officious. But generally I support the rule, some people were cheating and I'm glad it's now the same for everyone. At the end of the day it isn't that hard to stay within the limits so everyone should just accept it or quit racing I guess?
What clubs really need is a decent clerk of the course so that the enforcement of the rule and any penalties doesn't become too officious. But generally I support the rule, some people were cheating and I'm glad it's now the same for everyone. At the end of the day it isn't that hard to stay within the limits so everyone should just accept it or quit racing I guess?
woof said:
Laughable.
Well I've decided to make my feelings known by cancelling all my testing at MSV circuits this year. That's about £1500 worth. It's a shame there isn't a drivers association that could stand up for what drivers want, rather than one persons OCD about his grass.
f
k MSV and fk Palmer
So the loss of your 1500 quid will make a difference?Well I've decided to make my feelings known by cancelling all my testing at MSV circuits this year. That's about £1500 worth. It's a shame there isn't a drivers association that could stand up for what drivers want, rather than one persons OCD about his grass.
f
k MSV and fk Palmer Come test at the Nordschleife, 150 kerbs and only about three you could use.
Woof
Do you really not remember how poor the circuits used to look in the octagon days and before?
Or how poor the toilets were or how the meat was all cheap cuts in the cafes?
What is wrong with a quality environment around the site? These are now major international sporting venues not just dusty old holes any more.
MSV still has on going improvements at all circuits but I`m sure you wont be happy with that either . Brands could have become a housing estate and a golf course many years ago and it didn't because of the vision and focus that has been bought to bear by a company that is centred on motor sport and delivers some of the best driving experiences on 2 and 4 wheels.
They also sell teddy bears in the shops should you want one!
Do you really not remember how poor the circuits used to look in the octagon days and before?
Or how poor the toilets were or how the meat was all cheap cuts in the cafes?
What is wrong with a quality environment around the site? These are now major international sporting venues not just dusty old holes any more.
MSV still has on going improvements at all circuits but I`m sure you wont be happy with that either . Brands could have become a housing estate and a golf course many years ago and it didn't because of the vision and focus that has been bought to bear by a company that is centred on motor sport and delivers some of the best driving experiences on 2 and 4 wheels.
They also sell teddy bears in the shops should you want one!
It is certainly true that in the Octagon era the circuits were in poor shape. It is also true that many track day and race participants have higher than average disposable income so they tend to expect reasonable standards for their pounds.
It is also true that Motorsport is very time consuming and for many of us to continue we have to take our families with us. I may put up with grotty loos and dodgy burger bars but my wife won't. Unhappy wives are not compatible with racing!
Palmer realises that his business depends on increased participation in the corporate, track day and race world and that means increasing standards. It's a competitive market and Presentation standards in many sports have improved and to get repeat business motor sport also needs to improve.
Palmer has successfully improved the look of his circuits and the quality of the loos and catering etc and fair play to him for that. In other threads people have moaned about the "look" of Donington but they are playing catch up because they know that they have to match the MSV standards, even if it takes time. You can't have it both ways.
Motorsport is an entertainment business and people who start to feel taken advantage off will go and do something else. The presentation aspects of circuits therefore does matter. Motorsport isn't just about the Tarmac, it's about the whole experience.
JM, you are in the web design business. You can put information across in a basic way or in an enhanced and appealing way. Presumably you do the latter because that gives the client what they want and gets you repeat business. Same principle really. JP wants the whole experience to be appealing to all because that gives his customers the best value in the end and gives him the best return in his investment.
Just my 2 penny worth and not really to do with track limits but I think it's all related, along with the motor cycle racers concerns over safety at the track edges.
It is also true that Motorsport is very time consuming and for many of us to continue we have to take our families with us. I may put up with grotty loos and dodgy burger bars but my wife won't. Unhappy wives are not compatible with racing!
Palmer realises that his business depends on increased participation in the corporate, track day and race world and that means increasing standards. It's a competitive market and Presentation standards in many sports have improved and to get repeat business motor sport also needs to improve.
Palmer has successfully improved the look of his circuits and the quality of the loos and catering etc and fair play to him for that. In other threads people have moaned about the "look" of Donington but they are playing catch up because they know that they have to match the MSV standards, even if it takes time. You can't have it both ways.
Motorsport is an entertainment business and people who start to feel taken advantage off will go and do something else. The presentation aspects of circuits therefore does matter. Motorsport isn't just about the Tarmac, it's about the whole experience.
JM, you are in the web design business. You can put information across in a basic way or in an enhanced and appealing way. Presumably you do the latter because that gives the client what they want and gets you repeat business. Same principle really. JP wants the whole experience to be appealing to all because that gives his customers the best value in the end and gives him the best return in his investment.
Just my 2 penny worth and not really to do with track limits but I think it's all related, along with the motor cycle racers concerns over safety at the track edges.
Edited by andy97 on Saturday 26th April 21:39
Edited by andy97 on Saturday 26th April 21:46
I did a short article about the standards of circuits last year. I don't know how to upload it here, but it is available here:- http://thundersportgb.com/index.php/downloads/cat_... as article number 80 "Raising the Bar".
Before anyone insinuates that I have an affiliation to MSV or JP, you should maybe look at who I am and ask around in the bike world. JP and I have had a fair few reasonably colourful differences of opinion. I am one of the few organisers that hire his venues who is genuinely not intimidated or concerned about offending him. Many say they are not afraid, but just watch them wilt when they are in the same meeting room.
I happen to agree with 95% of what Mad4Amanda (spelling)has said in the course of this thread and the fact that he/she obviously has some connection with MSV does not invalidate the accuracy of those statements.
One thing I would say though is that the much maligned Octagon Group did actually pay for a lot of infrastructure upgrades at the venues before they departed (Snetterton garages, Cadwell Park pit area, Oulton Park pit complex). JPs skill has been in applying the finishing touches and making sure that the end job is made the best it can possibly be. He is a man with an incredible eye for detail and an almost obsessive determination to see his ideas completed to his own high standards.
Anyway, have a read or if someone is able to get the article directly embedded here, feel free.
Before anyone insinuates that I have an affiliation to MSV or JP, you should maybe look at who I am and ask around in the bike world. JP and I have had a fair few reasonably colourful differences of opinion. I am one of the few organisers that hire his venues who is genuinely not intimidated or concerned about offending him. Many say they are not afraid, but just watch them wilt when they are in the same meeting room.
I happen to agree with 95% of what Mad4Amanda (spelling)has said in the course of this thread and the fact that he/she obviously has some connection with MSV does not invalidate the accuracy of those statements.
One thing I would say though is that the much maligned Octagon Group did actually pay for a lot of infrastructure upgrades at the venues before they departed (Snetterton garages, Cadwell Park pit area, Oulton Park pit complex). JPs skill has been in applying the finishing touches and making sure that the end job is made the best it can possibly be. He is a man with an incredible eye for detail and an almost obsessive determination to see his ideas completed to his own high standards.
Anyway, have a read or if someone is able to get the article directly embedded here, feel free.
I dislike what MSV have done to circuits, I prefered each circuit to be individual and diffrer from each other as it makes each event a different experience, not just a barrage of red signs and the same over priced food on offer at every track. Just back from Castle Combe they have it spot on I think. I wish we could get away from the corporate take over of our tracks and get back to the caravan cafe at Lyden Hill and the old dears seriving at Mallory.....
nooooooo, you don't understand the vision of the great Lord Palmer. Our places of racing should be places of beauty and tranquility. All beautifully ordered and not a blade of grass out of place.
FFS get a grip guys. We are there to go racing. If it needs to be that pristine, create proper runoffs like we see at proper circuits. If it's grass, it'll get eaten up.
Words fail me.
Or maybe they don't.
Bert
FFS get a grip guys. We are there to go racing. If it needs to be that pristine, create proper runoffs like we see at proper circuits. If it's grass, it'll get eaten up.
Words fail me.
Or maybe they don't.
Bert
This is from last weeks test at Brands Hatch.
I forgot to mention that the track had been covered in oil from a Ferrari 360 that had dumped it's sump across half the track. This is my 3rd lap - so still building heat up into the slicks
I turn in, get a little bit of oversteer and I correct it and run a little wide. That earned me a black flag on a test day. Who in their right mind thinks that's correct ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-5laJXz9Ys
I forgot to mention that the track had been covered in oil from a Ferrari 360 that had dumped it's sump across half the track. This is my 3rd lap - so still building heat up into the slicks
I turn in, get a little bit of oversteer and I correct it and run a little wide. That earned me a black flag on a test day. Who in their right mind thinks that's correct ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-5laJXz9Ys
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