Yet another which race series thread!
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
So, wait- you're saying forget about podium aspirations unless you have a limitless budget and a natural born god-given sack of talent?
You've been choosing the wrong series pal.
Nah, he's right for the most part. Are you saying that if you're average at racing you should be aiming for podiums?You've been choosing the wrong series pal.
Cheating is in all series. Not being spotted is not the same as not cheating. The caterhams do have a good rep, but someone will be doing something dodgy.
Altrezia said:
HustleRussell said:
So, wait- you're saying forget about podium aspirations unless you have a limitless budget and a natural born god-given sack of talent?
You've been choosing the wrong series pal.
Nah, he's right for the most part. Are you saying that if you're average at racing you should be aiming for podiums?You've been choosing the wrong series pal.
In every series there are those who seem to be able to get more from the car than the general field thanks in the most part to talent and experience.
And it's generally true that those with a bigger budget can make more of the talent they do possess by means of testing, better advice, better prep and setup etc. They aren't cheating nexessarily, they can just invest more in the process than others.
I have neither but I've been on the podium occasionally. However I don't expect to consistently be in the top three and when looking to spend money on racing, try to get the best advantage I can for the resources (talent and cash) I can raise for the season.
It's hardly rocket science.
Some really weard replies here.
Winning takes lots of talent and lots of money.
No avoiding either.
Single make = spend money on testing endlesly funding the last 1/10th.
Power to weight = spend money on testing & the car.
Open series = spend loads of money on the car.
Run around mid pack, have fun and luck in to a podium is possible on a reasonable budget. To win a championship, forget it.
Winning takes lots of talent and lots of money.
No avoiding either.
Single make = spend money on testing endlesly funding the last 1/10th.
Power to weight = spend money on testing & the car.
Open series = spend loads of money on the car.
Run around mid pack, have fun and luck in to a podium is possible on a reasonable budget. To win a championship, forget it.
Altrezia said:
HustleRussell said:
It's a pity to hear so many people agreeing on this. I'm not sure I could reconcile the idea of going racing at all if I were so convinced that it wasn't possible to do well on my budget.
You can do well on any budget if you're fast. 
Mark Benson said:
What about the fun element? I've always said that if I stopped having fun (and by that I mean close racing with drivers who respect one another) then I'll stop. 20 years on and there are a few series I wouldn't bother with again but I'm still enjoying what I do.
Yeah that's the one downside to Graduates, everybody knows Caterham racing is no fun 
I'd argue being mid-pack and fighting is actually *more fun* than trying to win. I spent two great years in Production BMW, where I was top ten but never fighting for a win for various reasons - it was excellent. Then I moved to the Lotus, tried harder and managed to start winning.. but whilst I prefer the car, and the speed... it's not as 'fun' because not winning bloody hurts.
MAVROS said:
I know it's been done to death but I'm having real problems making a decision on which series to join. I was all set for the BMW Nankang compact cup, low entry fees, large grids and very few mods allowed. I looked at a car today and realised there's a fair amount of development that goes on just to be competitive. One example is the front runners are running new tyres every race! It's put me off a bit but it seems you can join a well supported series with a few professional drivers who will still find a way to spend money or an up and coming series where it's more relaxed while everyone finds their feet. I won my last race but I was in a class of four cars!
Can anyone recommend a championship which is well supported but full of genuine club racers and not pseudo race teams?
The last thread on this subject had someone suggest single seaters which piqued my interest. Can anyone recommend a value for money single seater series? Preferably with some figures to boot.
My budget is £10.000 pa for five or six double headers not including extraordinary costs, engine rebuilds, damage etc.
Cheers guys.
Ok so...Can anyone recommend a championship which is well supported but full of genuine club racers and not pseudo race teams?
The last thread on this subject had someone suggest single seaters which piqued my interest. Can anyone recommend a value for money single seater series? Preferably with some figures to boot.
My budget is £10.000 pa for five or six double headers not including extraordinary costs, engine rebuilds, damage etc.
Cheers guys.
James Gornall (the 2016 Champion and current 2017 Championship Leader) isn't throwing on a new set of boots every race, in fact he isn't running new boots every round!
Owen Hunter, 2 x second place finished at Outlon Park the most recent round has competed thus far on one set of tyres. So he has done a total of 6 races on one set and podium-ed on that set after two rounds!
That's just two examples off hand, there are more. So whoever told you that the front runners are running new tyres every race is wrong, not misinformed but plain wrong. No development is allowed, there is a technical file that shows what the engine must be (i.e Standard) and the rest of the regulations are pretty locked down, or as much as they can be.
Don't get me wrong, all of the front runners test, but find me a formula where this doesn't apply.
There are a couple of guys out there that spanner for some drivers but these aren't pseudo teams as the guys all own their own cars. Using James as the example again, it's just him and his dad at the track spannering the car (in fact just his dad really as James is afraid of getting his hands dirty
) A 10k budget is enough to run a Compact for 2/3 season including purchasing the car. It's a bigger budget that 99% of the grid. Also some quick sums for you. 14 x races at 250 a set of tyres is 3500, if you cant run a car for 6500 for sundries and dragging the car around etc then there is probably something VERY wrong.
In reality, you would look to have 3 sets a season, 4 if you include a spare set. Some guys will always spend money to find an advantage, the only way to do that in reality with the compacts is to test and buy more tyres.
If you have decided that the Compacts aren't for you or you don't feel for whatever reason you wouldn't be competitive in them that's fine of course, but the truth is that the reasons you have listed are fiction I am afraid!
We take on a lot of guys that are new to racing or new to one make formulas or just guys who have switched from one formula to another. The infrastructure in the championship has been built around this, the paddock is friendly, the staff are friendly, the drivers are in the main very friendly and willing to help each other out!
I love what we do as a formula and what we have achieved and continue to achieve but I accept the Compact Cup isn't for everyone; you pays your money, you take your choice.
Happy to discuss it in depth if you want, drop me a PM
Geeks, aka Dan, Aka Compact Cup Organiser since 2011...
Thurbs said:
Some really weard replies here.
Winning takes lots of talent and lots of money.
No avoiding either.
Single make = spend money on testing endlesly funding the last 1/10th.
Power to weight = spend money on testing & the car.
Open series = spend loads of money on the car.
Run around mid pack, have fun and luck in to a podium is possible on a reasonable budget. To win a championship, forget it.
Sorry but that is rubbish. Winning takes talent, budget will only take you so far in one make racing, well one make that is correctly regulated. We have guys in the Compacts winning on a shoe string and guys with mega budgets running mid pack.Winning takes lots of talent and lots of money.
No avoiding either.
Single make = spend money on testing endlesly funding the last 1/10th.
Power to weight = spend money on testing & the car.
Open series = spend loads of money on the car.
Run around mid pack, have fun and luck in to a podium is possible on a reasonable budget. To win a championship, forget it.
We have also proved this in the Compacts over and over again, we took Rob Boston, put him in a car that had run around at the back, he not only pole'd the car, he set a new lap record, won the race and produced the closest finish we have ever seen in the formula. Steve Roberts took a car he had never driven and poled and took two race wins in 2015 and then took a car he hadn't driven before in 2016 an podiumed it twice.
Neither spent any money on the car, neither tested before hand, they are just good and fast, and have more talent than i will ever have behind the wheel
I don't think it's quite that simple. Yes you often get those fast guys that you hate who don't test, turn up on 4 year old tyres and win.
However specifically for me with at best middling talent, the more money I spend the better I do. I pretty much always test as I'm rubbish at turning up and going well. That's money. If I test more at the circuits between races and have more coaching. If I spent more on the car (it's pretty tightly regulated), but a car that is super well prepared with a very fresh engine I'll do better. If I spend money on help at the circuits, I'll do much better than trying to self run.
So that's all money. The difference between spending the absolute minimum on racing and doing the most you can do within the rules is quite sizable in any series.
The question of fun is probably even more complex!
Bert
However specifically for me with at best middling talent, the more money I spend the better I do. I pretty much always test as I'm rubbish at turning up and going well. That's money. If I test more at the circuits between races and have more coaching. If I spent more on the car (it's pretty tightly regulated), but a car that is super well prepared with a very fresh engine I'll do better. If I spend money on help at the circuits, I'll do much better than trying to self run.
So that's all money. The difference between spending the absolute minimum on racing and doing the most you can do within the rules is quite sizable in any series.
The question of fun is probably even more complex!
Bert
geeks said:
Sorry but that is rubbish. Winning takes talent, budget will only take you so far in one make racing, well one make that is correctly regulated.
In any race series there are several types of driver:-
- those blessed with money.
- those blessed with driving talent
- those blessed with brains.
And there are some who are lucky enough to fall into more than one category. Sadly some don't achieve one, but they tend not to last long.
Those with money will be prepared to spend. New tyres more often, better fuel, better preparation, spare parts. Testing. Fitness training, driver coaching. Visits to simulators. Even building their own simulators.
Those with brains, but not budget will have to work harder and do more prep work on their cars themselves so that they don't need to do lots of testing
Those with natural talent will be quick in a bathtub, even more so in a well prepped car.
In the last decade I've been involved with motor racing, the particular class of the particular series I've been most interested in has done from using two, possibly three sets of tyres per season, to a new set every race weekend. Testing was usually only reserved for a shakedown test following a rebuild, but now many people are doing at least a half day, with a number doing a full day, and some doing other tests too. The standard of the cars have gone up, everyone has gone faster, but the lap time gap between the class winner and the back of the field is probably the same.
- those blessed with money.
- those blessed with driving talent
- those blessed with brains.
And there are some who are lucky enough to fall into more than one category. Sadly some don't achieve one, but they tend not to last long.
Those with money will be prepared to spend. New tyres more often, better fuel, better preparation, spare parts. Testing. Fitness training, driver coaching. Visits to simulators. Even building their own simulators.
Those with brains, but not budget will have to work harder and do more prep work on their cars themselves so that they don't need to do lots of testing
Those with natural talent will be quick in a bathtub, even more so in a well prepped car.
In the last decade I've been involved with motor racing, the particular class of the particular series I've been most interested in has done from using two, possibly three sets of tyres per season, to a new set every race weekend. Testing was usually only reserved for a shakedown test following a rebuild, but now many people are doing at least a half day, with a number doing a full day, and some doing other tests too. The standard of the cars have gone up, everyone has gone faster, but the lap time gap between the class winner and the back of the field is probably the same.
It takes money AND talent. More money can overcome less talent, and visa versa. But it takes both to win a championship.
My point is the advice given on this thread is you can turn up as a novice, spend nothing, do graduate catercompacts/whatever and win. It is a complete fantasy and doesn’t work. Novices can win “for sure” if they have carted or done similar competitive racing in the past. Talented people can win in slow cars, no denying that.
My point is the advice given on this thread is you can turn up as a novice, spend nothing, do graduate catercompacts/whatever and win. It is a complete fantasy and doesn’t work. Novices can win “for sure” if they have carted or done similar competitive racing in the past. Talented people can win in slow cars, no denying that.
I've seen plenty of moderately talented (usually those that have been taught to be quick rather than those with seat of the pants talent) drivers succeed by throwing budget at it. Sadly that drives the costs up for all as it becomes impossible, regardless of the talent level to overcome that even in what is considered a 'one make' class.
On occasion the technical scrutineering expertise are not on the same level as some of those involved in the championships which can cause a further challenge where the rule book is not tight enough.
On occasion the technical scrutineering expertise are not on the same level as some of those involved in the championships which can cause a further challenge where the rule book is not tight enough.
The Coupe Cup has a wide range of driving abilities and there's always great fun to be had wherever you find yourself in the pack.
All the cars are pretty much identical with a strict set of control parts such as AVO suspension, SD cage, EBC Blue Stuff brake pads, and a PiperX air intake. The engines and gearbox (which I consider the expensive stuff) are bog standard with no mods permitted. There are a few permitted extras such as an oil cooler and a coffee table size spoiler which comes in handy in between races for a place to eat/drink from.
Personally speaking, the time between races in/around the paddock is half the fun with all the cars/drivers together bantering about stuff (if your car's in one piece and you're not trying to fix it) and nonsense. It gives me a welcome break from working and living in the Middle East.
We're out to play at Thruxton on June 3rd & 4th as part of the support programme to the (insane) British Truck Racing Association Championship.
There'll be 19 (possibly one or two more) Coupes on the grid which beats our previous record. If anyone (with a race licence) wants to try out a truly fun series of our teams has an Arrive & Drive available for the weekend. Checkout the recent post on www.facebook.com/racecoupecup for details.
All the cars are pretty much identical with a strict set of control parts such as AVO suspension, SD cage, EBC Blue Stuff brake pads, and a PiperX air intake. The engines and gearbox (which I consider the expensive stuff) are bog standard with no mods permitted. There are a few permitted extras such as an oil cooler and a coffee table size spoiler which comes in handy in between races for a place to eat/drink from.
Personally speaking, the time between races in/around the paddock is half the fun with all the cars/drivers together bantering about stuff (if your car's in one piece and you're not trying to fix it) and nonsense. It gives me a welcome break from working and living in the Middle East.
We're out to play at Thruxton on June 3rd & 4th as part of the support programme to the (insane) British Truck Racing Association Championship.
There'll be 19 (possibly one or two more) Coupes on the grid which beats our previous record. If anyone (with a race licence) wants to try out a truly fun series of our teams has an Arrive & Drive available for the weekend. Checkout the recent post on www.facebook.com/racecoupecup for details.
My 2p not having done any circuit racing due to financial constraints, I do sprinting and autosolos instead.
I would say just give it a go, you might win (unlikely) , you might not (likely), you will almost certainly have fun.
lots of good suggestions in the thread, just pick one and see how you get on.
BMW or caterham Grads would be my choice because BMW seems well regulated and I really like caterhams , and the race cars don't seem to change in price much so a reasonable chance of getting some cash back if you don't like it.
I would say just give it a go, you might win (unlikely) , you might not (likely), you will almost certainly have fun.
lots of good suggestions in the thread, just pick one and see how you get on.
BMW or caterham Grads would be my choice because BMW seems well regulated and I really like caterhams , and the race cars don't seem to change in price much so a reasonable chance of getting some cash back if you don't like it.
MPlb21 said:
The Coupe Cup has a wide range of driving abilities and there's always great fun to be had wherever you find yourself in the pack.
All the cars are pretty much identical with a strict set of control parts such as AVO suspension, SD cage, EBC Blue Stuff brake pads, and a PiperX air intake. The engines and gearbox (which I consider the expensive stuff) are bog standard with no mods permitted. There are a few permitted extras such as an oil cooler and a coffee table size spoiler which comes in handy in between races for a place to eat/drink from.
Personally speaking, the time between races in/around the paddock is half the fun with all the cars/drivers together bantering about stuff (if your car's in one piece and you're not trying to fix it) and nonsense. It gives me a welcome break from working and living in the Middle East.
We're out to play at Thruxton on June 3rd & 4th as part of the support programme to the (insane) British Truck Racing Association Championship.
There'll be 19 (possibly one or two more) Coupes on the grid which beats our previous record. If anyone (with a race licence) wants to try out a truly fun series of our teams has an Arrive & Drive available for the weekend. Checkout the recent post on www.facebook.com/racecoupecup for details.
I've contacted misty racing, what other teams run an arrive and drive on the grid? All the cars are pretty much identical with a strict set of control parts such as AVO suspension, SD cage, EBC Blue Stuff brake pads, and a PiperX air intake. The engines and gearbox (which I consider the expensive stuff) are bog standard with no mods permitted. There are a few permitted extras such as an oil cooler and a coffee table size spoiler which comes in handy in between races for a place to eat/drink from.
Personally speaking, the time between races in/around the paddock is half the fun with all the cars/drivers together bantering about stuff (if your car's in one piece and you're not trying to fix it) and nonsense. It gives me a welcome break from working and living in the Middle East.
We're out to play at Thruxton on June 3rd & 4th as part of the support programme to the (insane) British Truck Racing Association Championship.
There'll be 19 (possibly one or two more) Coupes on the grid which beats our previous record. If anyone (with a race licence) wants to try out a truly fun series of our teams has an Arrive & Drive available for the weekend. Checkout the recent post on www.facebook.com/racecoupecup for details.
Another option for a good budget racing series is the Puma Cup
http://pumacup.com
Good cars that are very well built, handle extremely well and are very cost effective.
There's a mix of 40 min races and sprint races so you could share a car with a second driver to keep costs even lower. Once you have a National A race licence (6 signatures) you also have the opportunity to race at Spa once a year with the CSCC.
Driving standards in CSCC are generally pretty good and there's a very good paddock atmosphere.
There are a couple of second hand cars available for £5k and running costs should be low.
The organisers will know if anyone does "arrive and drive". EMC Motorsport may have a car available to hire.
http://pumacup.com
Good cars that are very well built, handle extremely well and are very cost effective.
There's a mix of 40 min races and sprint races so you could share a car with a second driver to keep costs even lower. Once you have a National A race licence (6 signatures) you also have the opportunity to race at Spa once a year with the CSCC.
Driving standards in CSCC are generally pretty good and there's a very good paddock atmosphere.
There are a couple of second hand cars available for £5k and running costs should be low.
The organisers will know if anyone does "arrive and drive". EMC Motorsport may have a car available to hire.
Edited by andy97 on Monday 5th June 10:31
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