Tyre Advice needed please

[London GT3]

I am running a 986 Porsche Boxster 3.2S in CSCC Modern Classics. The car has 18 inch wheels fitted with 265's on the rear and 235's on the front. The dampers are Gaz adjustable. The weight is 1200kg.

Tyres can be List 1A/1B/1C.

For dry use I am running Too R888R's and finding them to be good. For wets I am using a new set of Pirelli P Zero's and they are awful.

Any recommendations for better tyres, especially the wets?

Thanks

[smiles1]

Can you get Rainsports in your size?

[London GT3]

Thank you for that advice. They do have very good reviews and are available in my sizes. An interesting thread on them also elsewhere on PH.

Do you have specific experience of them? I see Uniroyal make a Rain Sport 3 and a Rain Expert 3. Do you know the difference?

Thank you.

[London GT3]

I think I may have answered my own question. The Rain Sport 3 is the sportier of the two tyres.

[Dan BSCS]

I can recommend Nankang AR-1s for dry use. Considerably faster and more consistent than R888Rs and ZZRs in my experience.

Uniroyal Rainsport 3s are great in very wet conditions but useless in changeable/drying conditions. For a more useful wet/inter I would recommend Toyo R1Rs if they are available in your sizes.

/2p

Dan

[Thurbs]

I use NS-2R in the wet and AR-1 in the dry.

The NS-2R have taken me to two wins out of two so far in the rain... note, 4wd may have had a small part to play...

6th to win in the rain (CSCC Future Classics): http://youtu.be/hOtFm57bh_4?t=22m23s

2nd to win starting dry and then getting v wet (CSCC Future Classics): http://youtu.be/egObStb_1sY?t=8m5s

Both starts were on the NS-2R.

As with all rubber, they get harder each heat cycle so renew them each year and sell the old ones on ebay.

[andy97]

I have used Rainsport 3 on my 944 turbo and very good in the wet, but hopeless on a drying track.

[London GT3]

Thank you to everyone for the helpful comments. I have three sets of wheels. I think I might ditch the old Michelins and try the Nankang AR-1's which I can then try back to back with my existing R888R's. I think I will ditch my Pirelli P Zero's on the wet set of rims and try the Uniroyal Rain Sport 3's which seem to have good reviews when it is streaming wet.

Any more comments will be welcome. I will place my order in a weeks time ready for Oulton Park and Spa in June.

[Thurbs]

London GT3 said:

I think I will ditch my Pirelli P Zero's on the wet set of rims and try the Uniroyal Rain Sport 3's which seem to have good reviews when it is streaming wet.

The URS3 are list A tyres, I would be looking for somthing in the list B section if I were you. Will be much softer and faster overall.

[Richair]

Another AR1 fan here, which I use on my 944T in Future Classics. They hold up well to 40 mins of abuse and don't turn to gum like the R888R's on the EP3 Civic I also drive in TinTops. Like Thurbs I also have a set of NS2Rs for the wet, although I managed to lay my hands on the now discontinued softer compounds. I've heard mixed reviews of the 180 compounds in the wet...

The only other tyre I'd consider over the AR1 is the Dunlop DZ03G's which seem to be consistently well rated in the paddock, but are more expensive... I currently torn on trying a set for Spa, or sticking with the AR1s

I'm not convinced by the Rainsport 3 argument. If you get caught out in drying conditions (very likely during a 40 min race), you're screwed. A well-treaded List 1B tyre is a much better compromise IMO.

[London GT3]

Thumbs and Richair. Now you've gone and done it! I thought I had a plan and now I am not so sure. AR-1 still looks good for the dry (or the Dunlops) but you are casting doubt on the Uniroyals for the wet.

Does it follow necessarily that a List 1B tyre will be a softer compound than List 1A?

Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you

[London GT3]

I should have added a note for Richair that we will be racing together at Spa because the Modern Classics and Future Classics are combined. Look forward to meeting up. We are the grey Boxster (No 8). I am racing with my son.

[McSam]

Dan BSCS said:

I can recommend Nankang AR-1s for dry use. Considerably faster and more consistent than R888Rs and ZZRs in my experience.

Uniroyal Rainsport 3s are great in very wet conditions but useless in changeable/drying conditions. For a more useful wet/inter I would recommend Toyo R1Rs if they are available in your sizes.

/2p

Dan

I completely agree with this. Most paddocks seem to be coming around to the 2018 AR-1 (new compound) and the Direzza DZ03G being the class of the field for dry tyres, but wets are more difficult. I have a set of Rainsports for my car, as it's driven to events and I want something that'll keep it on the road in all conditions, but I haven't yet considered starting a race on them. Like you, I have 45min races and I don't think I'll ever see conditions bad enough to guarantee there isn't even a drying line by the end of the race.

To that end, I got Toyo R1Rs. These were the perfect answer, still pretty quick and wear OK in the dry, but excellent in the wet. Carved through the field at a very wet Rockingham on these - if you've driven it, you'll know that's about as slippery and treacherous as it gets!

I have won my class in the wet on NS-2Rs, but the 100 compound which is now discontinued, not the much more common 180 which I think you'd struggle to get any heat into. This was before I had my set of R1Rs, which are better.

On a track day that dawned very wet, I left the Rainsports on for the morning. Which as soon as the circuit started to dry, became less than ideal... A soft sidewall is one thing, but that bugger is trying to unmount itself!

[Richair]

London GT3 said:

I should have added a note for Richair that we will be racing together at Spa because the Modern Classics and Future Classics are combined. Look forward to meeting up. We are the grey Boxster (No 8). I am racing with my son.

Good stuff! It's going to my first time there so looking forward to it. Will find you to say hello I think Thurbs may well have entered too...

To answer your question with regards to 1A/B tyres; the main differences are sidewall stiffness and compound. 1A tyres tend to be conventional road tyres up to the 'UHP' (ultra high-performance) type, whereas 1B covers all the main E-marked 'trackday' type tyres.

I'm in car 51 by the way!

76473515-S+05-05-18++0334 by richair, on Flickr

[Steve H]

andy97 said:

I have used Rainsport 3 on my 944 turbo and very good in the wet, but hopeless on a drying track.

I've run RS3 on a drying track where it was starting to chew on the fronts so I swapped to Direzzas and immediately lost three seconds a lap.


Has anyone on here actually done proper back to back tests with data on Direzzas and AR1s? Everyone has a favourite tyre but I haven't seen anything definitive to show that either one is better which leans me towards the devil I know (the Dunlops).

[Dan BSCS]

Steve H said:

andy97 said:

I have used Rainsport 3 on my 944 turbo and very good in the wet, but hopeless on a drying track.

I've run RS3 on a drying track where it was starting to chew on the fronts so I swapped to Direzzas and immediately lost three seconds a lap.

Hence why I suggested the R1Rs. You need something that works from wet right through to bone dry. The RS3s might be faster in properly wet conditions but how often do you race when it’s totally soaking and never changes through the race? Of course it would be great to have drys, inters and wets but that’s 3 sets of wheels, plus testing tyres, plus spares. Who wants to take 5-6 sets of wheels per car to every meeting? Not me!

This is why, for me, the R1Rs are a better wet option.

We ran them on the Sunday morning at Race of Remembrance. Second fastest car on track in the very wet stuff (someone was cheating and running on full race wets) and they were within 1.5s a lap of the AR-1s on a fully dry track. They also ran 6 hours in conditions between full wet and full dry and didn’t go off or wear out.

/2p

Dan

Edited by Dan BSCS on Sunday 13th May 17:22

[Steve H]

Yea that's a fair point.

My car (fwd, fair chunk of power) does tend to work hard on the fronts, the beemer we were running the same day stayed on Rainsports and barely marked them though and it was almost a dry line by the time we finished. The OP is running a pretty balanced car, I'd guess they would go a fair way on a soft tyre as it dries.

The big issue is as mentioned above, it's actually quite unusual to get to use wet tyres other than in a longer race where changes are a realistic option.

I've tested on the Uniroyals but never raced on them and I was in the Rockingham race as Sam mentioned above, it was a dry start so I started on Direzzas and didn't have the facility to change them despite it being a 45m race with a pitstop; I also won that race overall beating the cars in the class above me as well so even the famously "crap in the wet" Dunlops aren't such a liability.

[stevieturbo]

Interesting reading.

https://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/monsters-...

[Kraken]

Tyres are such a subjective thing. I've used Direzza DZ03's, AR1's and the old and new R888. I'd rate the AR1's as the worst of them with the DZ03's being head and shoulders above the rest once you get the pressures rights. My team mate who used to drive the car with me hated them and much preferred the R888R's.

[Richair]

Kraken said:

Tyres are such a subjective thing. I've used Direzza DZ03's, AR1's and the old and new R888. I'd rate the AR1's as the worst of them with the DZ03's being head and shoulders above the rest once you get the pressures rights. My team mate who used to drive the car with me hated them and much preferred the R888R's.

Worst being what exactly? Less confidence inspiring, slower lap times? Or just not as good as the others? It would be good if you could elaborate But you're bang on, it is very subjective. I much prefer AR1's to R888R's as they go off less with heat. That being said I'm still very confident at pushing the car with hot and gummy R888R's and my laptimes are unchanged... I'm very tempted to try the DZ03's