Multi Use - Club racer
Discussion
Apologies if this is already covered, I had a quick search!
So partially hypothetical but with some ‘man maths’ this could be a reality.
If you wanted to build a club racer; Toyo tyres saloons etc.. but wanted the versatility of being eligible for as many other Championships/disciplines possible; so perhaps a clubman rally/hill climb, what’s the best basis.
The basis would ideally be something exciting and quick so BMW 120/130 and upwards!? Rear wheel drive... etc...
The idea being, once it’s built it could be used between me and a couple of other friends in several Championships so we get good value out of the ‘build’.
Which is the best donor car for this purpose?
Any help appreciated.
So partially hypothetical but with some ‘man maths’ this could be a reality.
If you wanted to build a club racer; Toyo tyres saloons etc.. but wanted the versatility of being eligible for as many other Championships/disciplines possible; so perhaps a clubman rally/hill climb, what’s the best basis.
The basis would ideally be something exciting and quick so BMW 120/130 and upwards!? Rear wheel drive... etc...
The idea being, once it’s built it could be used between me and a couple of other friends in several Championships so we get good value out of the ‘build’.
Which is the best donor car for this purpose?
Any help appreciated.
Certainly possible to build a car that can be raced and sprinted and hillclimbed. What you would need to do is look at all the regulations and build a car that gives you the best options. without even looking at the engine brakes etc, taking the interior trim out of a car will for most sprints/ hilclimbs move a car from a production based car to a modified one. But then modifying the engine and brakes may well take the car out of production class for racing.
What sort of racing do you want to do? What for of budget are you aiming for?
Some go hand in hand, like sprinting and hill climbing, and reasonably controlled 'production' class should be ok with a fairly standard car obviously.
Budget wise autotests and autosolos are good value fun against the clock even at national level, also 12car nav rallies.
But a rally car, or modified circuit racer then becomes quite specialist and pricey.
As said, if you had a couple of things in mind it would be a case or reading the regs and making sure you didn't fall foul of something that moved your class.
Obviously it also depends how much you care about being competitive, but if you take out the interior or fit an lsd and that moves you from production to modified, no driving will get the places back.
Daniel
Some go hand in hand, like sprinting and hill climbing, and reasonably controlled 'production' class should be ok with a fairly standard car obviously.
Budget wise autotests and autosolos are good value fun against the clock even at national level, also 12car nav rallies.
But a rally car, or modified circuit racer then becomes quite specialist and pricey.
As said, if you had a couple of things in mind it would be a case or reading the regs and making sure you didn't fall foul of something that moved your class.
Obviously it also depends how much you care about being competitive, but if you take out the interior or fit an lsd and that moves you from production to modified, no driving will get the places back.
Daniel
There is a lot to be said for a caterfield, I have one myself which is used for autotests, autosolos, odd track days, fast road use, could do a 12car nav rally in it but haven't yet, even sporting trials once!
However there are also downsides, you don't tend to get put in the production classes, and even if you have a roof which I don't you do get cold and wet half the year round.
Daniel
However there are also downsides, you don't tend to get put in the production classes, and even if you have a roof which I don't you do get cold and wet half the year round.
Daniel
had a few different race cars over the years... but probably most versatile and best bang for £££ is a Mini 
Bought it for 5k....
Its not the quickest thing on track, but it does OK/well enough in its typical classes.
Making a car for both rally and circuit is never going to be good at either - unless its pretty smooth tarmac rallys only
Bought it for 5k....
- Used it for Sprinting - SuperLapScotland. Minimal tweaks from its 'base' circuit spec. Mostly tyres and geometry, then some bolt on panel weight saving. Several class wins over 2019
- Used it for 1 make circuit racing championship - SMRC Celtic Speed Mini Cooper Cup. 7-8 race weekends a year. Fairly tight regs so not much allowed (Spec suspension, bushes, ECU, Exhaust)
- Used it for general saloon racing outside one make champ
- Used it for 12hr endurance racing - Race of Remembrance - Minor tweaks to setup, pads, added some bigger lights and comms. Bosh! Won its class in 2018
Its not the quickest thing on track, but it does OK/well enough in its typical classes.
Making a car for both rally and circuit is never going to be good at either - unless its pretty smooth tarmac rallys only
Edited by Adam Kindness on Saturday 19th October 20:44
Adam Kindness said:
had a few different race cars over the years... but probably most versatile and best bang for £££ is a Mini
Bought it for 5k....
Its not the quickest thing on track, but it does OK/well enough in its typical classes.
Making a car for both rally and circuit is never going to be good at either - unless its pretty smooth tarmac rallys only
Thanks very useful, thanks.Bought it for 5k....
- Used it for Sprinting - SuperLapScotland. Minimal tweaks from its 'base' circuit spec. Mostly tyres and geometry, then some bolt on panel weight saving. Several class wins over 2019
- Used it for 1 make circuit racing championship - SMRC Celtic Speed Mini Cooper Cup. 7-8 race weekends a year. Fairly tight regs so not much allowed (Spec suspension, bushes, ECU, Exhaust)
- Used it for general saloon racing outside one make champ
- Used it for 12hr endurance racing - Race of Remembrance - Minor tweaks to setup, pads, added some bigger lights and comms. Bosh! Won its class in 2018
Its not the quickest thing on track, but it does OK/well enough in its typical classes.
Making a car for both rally and circuit is never going to be good at either - unless its pretty smooth tarmac rallys only
Edited by Adam Kindness on Saturday 19th October 20:44
Lots of examples around so that it’s certainly going into the shortlist
Normally I would say buy instead of build because of the way the used racecar market is but RWD saloon's is a bit funny, Compact Cup cars go from 5k-12k, full fat non M series? I think you could probably build one for cheaper than you can find ready built.
Also, i was a bit meh about fwd and then I drove one with a plated diff and wowwwiieeeee
Also, i was a bit meh about fwd and then I drove one with a plated diff and wowwwiieeeee
Fully agree that power/speed is not the soul route the having fun. There's nothing wrong with the thrill of putting your foot down and being pushed against the seat, I have a 330ci as the daily and it cheers me up no end to have the odd launch of the lights on the drive home.
But while I have not done any circuit racing jut odd track days, I've had a lot of fun sliding the Westfield around autosolos and autotests in second gear with about 150bhp, plenty of minis and mx5s their too. Novas are also common. My uncal and cousin race in a 2cv team, not everyone cup of tea but it's a close grid, a close social network where family are included, and they have an absolute ball with it for a lot less than other series out there.
750mc is a good call for circuit based racing, else for the autotests/autosolos/sportingtrails end have a look at the BTRDA series.
Daniel
But while I have not done any circuit racing jut odd track days, I've had a lot of fun sliding the Westfield around autosolos and autotests in second gear with about 150bhp, plenty of minis and mx5s their too. Novas are also common. My uncal and cousin race in a 2cv team, not everyone cup of tea but it's a close grid, a close social network where family are included, and they have an absolute ball with it for a lot less than other series out there.
750mc is a good call for circuit based racing, else for the autotests/autosolos/sportingtrails end have a look at the BTRDA series.
Daniel
drmotorsport said:
Having been looking at quite a few sets of regulations for next year, the most versatile car would be: Production Tintop, 2000cc or less, no turbo/supercharger, no aero, H pattern gearbox, 2wd.
If seeking rwd, this narrows the field considerably.Although I'm sure the Subaru BRZ or Toyota GT86 ( latter probably the better car despite both being "the same" ) would be a good modern option.
Obviously if fwd, there will be a plethora of options.
drmotorsport said:
Having been looking at quite a few sets of regulations for next year, the most versatile car would be: Production Tintop, 2000cc or less, no turbo/supercharger, no aero, H pattern gearbox, 2wd.
What he said.Both a Civic Type R or a Fiesta ST are usable in most championships.
Its entirely possible to use a single car for a whole range of motorsport disciplines. The biggest issue in my experience was having the car comply with the regs for the various disciplines, it required a bit of prep occasionally, e.g. for rallycross I needed to add some high level brake lights, that I didn't need for Stage rallying, circuit racing, or drag racing. I took the sumpguard off that I needed for stage rallying for circuit racing and drag racing.
The choice of car is quite important, a compromise for some disciplines will be needed.
I used a 205 GTi 1.9, it was a Peugeot challenge car some competitive within it's own one make series that spanned, rallying, circuit racing and rallycross, the drag racing was merely to shut a service crew member up who pestered me to take on his Yankee tankee, he was slower, so no need to take to the quarter mile again!!
I wasn't doing sprints at the time with that car, but I did use a Clio williams for rallying and the odd sprint, pretty competitive in its class.
You are going to need to do a bit of research about the current regs before you leap in.
Some circuits, possibly local to you have races/classes for cars that might fit the bill, Track day cup, northern saloon and sports cars, CSSC spring to mind.
You might be compromised on rallies but again there are many these days that I'd tackle without a sumpguard if I had to.
Autosolos and autotests are reasonably relaxed on car mods, generally speaking a car that has the kit for rallies and/or circuit stuff should be ok for them
Oh and again...........read up on the regs, take a look at a few events and see what other people are using, you might even come across someone already using a jack of all trades car.
Yep one series would do the job but so would a compact, rwd I wouldn't rule out the MX5 or BRZ/GT86
The choice of car is quite important, a compromise for some disciplines will be needed.
I used a 205 GTi 1.9, it was a Peugeot challenge car some competitive within it's own one make series that spanned, rallying, circuit racing and rallycross, the drag racing was merely to shut a service crew member up who pestered me to take on his Yankee tankee, he was slower, so no need to take to the quarter mile again!!
I wasn't doing sprints at the time with that car, but I did use a Clio williams for rallying and the odd sprint, pretty competitive in its class.
You are going to need to do a bit of research about the current regs before you leap in.
Some circuits, possibly local to you have races/classes for cars that might fit the bill, Track day cup, northern saloon and sports cars, CSSC spring to mind.
You might be compromised on rallies but again there are many these days that I'd tackle without a sumpguard if I had to.
Autosolos and autotests are reasonably relaxed on car mods, generally speaking a car that has the kit for rallies and/or circuit stuff should be ok for them
Oh and again...........read up on the regs, take a look at a few events and see what other people are using, you might even come across someone already using a jack of all trades car.
Yep one series would do the job but so would a compact, rwd I wouldn't rule out the MX5 or BRZ/GT86
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