Big changes to MSA licences - Medicals

Big changes to MSA licences - Medicals

Author
Discussion

clubracing

280 posts

154 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
The increase is slightly annoying, but as part of the overall cost of doing even a single race meeting, it's pretty small.

If it allows for officials licences to be free so that a shortage of officials is something that clubs don't have to worry about when planning meetings, I think it's a sensible change. Hopefully having more officials and better training for them will lead to a higher standard of officiating as well.


ginettajoe

1,997 posts

166 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
Steve H said:
ginettajoe said:
So if race entries increased by 50%, Trackday costs increased by 50%, Circuit hire increased by 50% that would be different would it??? So next year, after everyone has rolled over and accepted it, and the licence cost goes up by 50%, which would be a £75 increase, that would be fine would it??? Remove the blinkers, re-insert brain, and when you have a bit more experience, then begin to spout!!!
Fairly obviously it would be different, a single race entry costs more than double the licence fee rolleyes . The entry fees for the championship I ran in last year must have totalled around £5k, a 50% increase would have cost a lot more than fifty quid.

I won that championship BTW so I think I’m doing ok now on the experience front biggrin .


ginettajoe said:
On the subject of Oulton Park, the chief Instructor there is of the same opinion as myself, in that he will not renew his licence unless he has any intention of doing a race later in the year, which he may, or may not do!! I am in exactly the same situation, in thinking that if I don't race, I will save myself £150, and because I won't need a medical, if I choose to enter a race, I can renew my licence a couple of days prior to the meeting!! Several other people have said exactly the same, so I wonder what percentage of licence holders will withhold their money, which reduces the MSUK income!!

Edited by ginettajoe on Sunday 24th November 23:34
Renewing and not racing seems like pretty poor value at either price, sounds like the changes have done you both a favour.
neither of your comments are worthy of a reply!! Amazing though, the people that are against it, are generally people that have been around for 30 or 40 years, not a handful.

ginettajoe

1,997 posts

166 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
Oilchange said:
I renewed my licence for this year on the off chance I’d race, won’t do that again. Unless a great racing op jumps up and bites me on the arse, I’m sidelined by this move. I wonder how many others will do this.
One of many of the same opinion!

Kraken

1,272 posts

148 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
ginettajoe said:
One of many of the same opinion!
Like I said. 1,800 have signed that petition and there are 30,000 license holders.

As you brought Brexit into it as well we all know from what Leave tell us that petitions are signed multiple times by the same person so in reality there are probably only about 600 people who have signed it. biggrinevilbiglaugh


ceesvdelst

70 posts

3 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
I think anything that raises the costs for a large chunk of people is likely to be met with anger.

I personally could never justify MSA type racing with all the extra costs, and to be honest if I was a board member of non MSA racing types I would be all over these forums, shows etc trying to entice people across.

It's not the same obviously, but fun can be had in many ways far, far cheaper than people think.


Kraken

1,272 posts

148 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
Yes, it's a free country. If people think they can get a better deal elsewhere then no-one is stopping them. The way some people are carrying on you would think no-one is allowed to race without giving MSUK their first born.

Graham

16,318 posts

232 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
It will be interesting to see what renewals are like in Jan and dec.

I would have renewed mine this month, to get the extra year out of my medical. but now I dont need that I'll leave it until later in the year when and if i enter a race..

I suspect many people may now do that, in 2018 I ended up not having time for any racing but still had a licence, now i wouldnt have bothered.

I can kind of see where they are coming from, removing costs for club officials, which is getting harder and harder to recruit, but i think the execution is a bit hamfisted

Gc285

1,213 posts

141 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
The increase is a drop in the ocean compared with entry and testing fees, which I am sure will go up more than inflation next year and of course running the damn car........but I would have the medical every year rather than pay that "saving" to MSUK!

Graham

16,318 posts

232 months

Monday 25th November
quotequote all
Gc285 said:
The increase is a drop in the ocean compared with entry and testing fees, which I am sure will go up more than inflation next year and of course running the damn car........but I would have the medical every year rather than pay that "saving" to MSUK!
I hardly do any testing these days its too expensive, and anyone who can add up got the medical every 2 years by juggling when they got the medical and applied for the licence. and my last medical was £60 which included my HGV medical.


Still fairly competitive mind won the class last time out ;-)


Kraken

1,272 posts

148 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
Gc285 said:
The increase is a drop in the ocean compared with entry and testing fees, which I am sure will go up more than inflation next year and of course running the damn car........but I would have the medical every year rather than pay that "saving" to MSUK!
So you don't want to give them the money regardless of whether they are going to spend it on promoting the sport or attracting new businesses etc?

shaunroche

186 posts

94 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
Think I'm missing something here.

The issue as it was explained to me by a very senior MUK chap goes like this: Globally, big sponsors are shying away from sports that could be accused of having a negative effect on the Environment. Motorsport has quite the carbon footprint when you consider that a huge proportion of it uses fossil fuels to power the bikes and cars, negating Formula-E obviously, though knowing they still use aeroplanes and trucks etc. to shift all the kit around.

MUK was allegedly about to sign a multimillion pound deal with Google, but they pulled out as Motorsport isn't deemed, generally, very green or inline with how the younger generations think today. You know them, the people who are the future of the sport. Many more sponsors have pulled out for similar reasons.
Additionally, the cost in insurances has gone through the roof and this raise needs to paid for somehow. So, sponsorship revenues are down and insurance costs are up.

So, what's the answer?

You get sponsors on board that have different attitudes to the environment. You move to a cheaper headquarters to bring costs down. You charge your members a bit more to help out with the costs.

And then there's the future of the Sport.

There is an acknowledged lack of interest, so I'm led to believe, in youngsters wishing to become scrutineers or Marshals etc. So the very people that you need to man a framework to enable all forms of motorsport is diminishing.

One approach to get more people involved is to make it free to be a member of the organization giving the opportunity to become a Marshal, a Scrutineer or whatever and to send them on low cost or even free training courses and you also make some license packs or whatever free also to encourage their joining or getting involved.

As a benefit, for your existing older members who may be put off my the cost of medicals, let's make that free too and make the new compulsory eye tests free as well. Add to this, a smattering of discounts on things that people in motorsport may also find useful, like cheaper fuel, cheaper motorfactors and cheaper tyres.

MUK are continuing, like a st load of other businesses to search for sponsorship and whilst they continue that search, we as members have to help out.

Now I may be very naïve, not very bright or just missing the point, but doesn't all the reasons for the costs going up make sense?

Not after an argument and you'll note I haven't insulted anyone or even brought Brexit in to it, but please put me right on why I may be wrong.

At the end of the day, I know that the £100 increase for next year (I've upgraded my level too, so without that it would have been a £50 increase) isn't going to line Dave Richards' pocket et al, but it will be put back into funding for the continuation and future of our sport. Personally, couldn't give a toss about the increase, seems reasonable to me.

Love to all.






Rockatansky

1,473 posts

135 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
shaunroche said:
Think I'm missing something here.

The issue as it was explained to me by a very senior MUK chap goes like this: Globally, big sponsors are shying away from sports that could be accused of having a negative effect on the Environment. Motorsport has quite the carbon footprint when you consider that a huge proportion of it uses fossil fuels to power the bikes and cars, negating Formula-E obviously, though knowing they still use aeroplanes and trucks etc. to shift all the kit around.

MUK was allegedly about to sign a multimillion pound deal with Google, but they pulled out as Motorsport isn't deemed, generally, very green or inline with how the younger generations think today. You know them, the people who are the future of the sport. Many more sponsors have pulled out for similar reasons.
Additionally, the cost in insurances has gone through the roof and this raise needs to paid for somehow. So, sponsorship revenues are down and insurance costs are up.

So, what's the answer?

You get sponsors on board that have different attitudes to the environment. You move to a cheaper headquarters to bring costs down. You charge your members a bit more to help out with the costs.

And then there's the future of the Sport.

There is an acknowledged lack of interest, so I'm led to believe, in youngsters wishing to become scrutineers or Marshals etc. So the very people that you need to man a framework to enable all forms of motorsport is diminishing.

One approach to get more people involved is to make it free to be a member of the organization giving the opportunity to become a Marshal, a Scrutineer or whatever and to send them on low cost or even free training courses and you also make some license packs or whatever free also to encourage their joining or getting involved.

As a benefit, for your existing older members who may be put off my the cost of medicals, let's make that free too and make the new compulsory eye tests free as well. Add to this, a smattering of discounts on things that people in motorsport may also find useful, like cheaper fuel, cheaper motorfactors and cheaper tyres.

MUK are continuing, like a st load of other businesses to search for sponsorship and whilst they continue that search, we as members have to help out.

Now I may be very naïve, not very bright or just missing the point, but doesn't all the reasons for the costs going up make sense?

Not after an argument and you'll note I haven't insulted anyone or even brought Brexit in to it, but please put me right on why I may be wrong.

At the end of the day, I know that the £100 increase for next year (I've upgraded my level too, so without that it would have been a £50 increase) isn't going to line Dave Richards' pocket et al, but it will be put back into funding for the continuation and future of our sport. Personally, couldn't give a toss about the increase, seems reasonable to me.

Love to all.


clap

mcdjl

4,032 posts

143 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
shaunroche said:
So, what's the answer?


There is an acknowledged lack of interest, so I'm led to believe, in youngsters wishing to become scrutineers or Marshals etc. So the very people that you need to man a framework to enable all forms of motorsport is diminishing.

One approach to get more people involved is to make it free to be a member of the organization giving the opportunity to become a Marshal, a Scrutineer or whatever and to send them on low cost or even free training courses and you also make some license packs or whatever free also to encourage their joining or getting involved.

As a benefit, for your existing older members who may be put off my the cost of medicals, let's make that free too and make the new compulsory eye tests free as well. Add to this, a smattering of discounts on things that people in motorsport may also find useful, like cheaper fuel, cheaper motorfactors and cheaper tyres.

MUK are continuing, like a st load of other businesses to search for sponsorship and whilst they continue that search, we as members have to help out.

Now I may be very naïve, not very bright or just missing the point, but doesn't all the reasons for the costs going up make sense?
Marshal registration with MSUK is already free and with most/all organising clubs for circuit racing. Joining the BMMC is ~£30/year (and technically optional for marshalling if registered with an organising club) but can be refunded against the overalls every other year. MSUK also sponsor the marshals training and have done for some years.
i can't quite tell if you were aware of that or not, but its certainly some of the costs.

ceesvdelst

70 posts

3 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
I think if there is a general lack of interest from sponsors etc, that should really push the MSA to do more to attract new people, make it easier for them to compete.

Yes we all know there is a lack of officials, that has always been the case and sadly only appeals to limited numbers.

Why does the MSA NEED sponsorship? Has it ever had it before?

It is obvious that motorsport is not that green, ever more so at lower levels, but there is always going to be an amount of people interested in it.

It is about how you get them involved, competing, watching supporting their local venues.

Simply put don't go after big sponsors like that, even manufacturers, they are now only interested in green motorsport, to try and appeal to youth, when in reality hybrid etc will be around for decades yet. It is all very selective for people like Volvo to say we are only building electric cars, but who will be able to afford them, how are they going to really replace what we have, it is pure marketing, nothing more. They are like bloody politicians!! Saying anything to try and make you buy their product

Go after other sponsors, people with a vested interest.

andy97

3,669 posts

170 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
shaunroche said:
Think I'm missing something here.

The issue as it was explained to me by a very senior MUK chap goes like this: Globally, big sponsors are shying away from sports that could be accused of having a negative effect on the Environment. Motorsport has quite the carbon footprint when you consider that a huge proportion of it uses fossil fuels to power the bikes and cars, negating Formula-E obviously, though knowing they still use aeroplanes and trucks etc. to shift all the kit around.

MUK was allegedly about to sign a multimillion pound deal with Google, but they pulled out as Motorsport isn't deemed, generally, very green or inline with how the younger generations think today. You know them, the people who are the future of the sport. Many more sponsors have pulled out for similar reasons.
Additionally, the cost in insurances has gone through the roof and this raise needs to paid for somehow. So, sponsorship revenues are down and insurance costs are up.

So, what's the answer?

You get sponsors on board that have different attitudes to the environment. You move to a cheaper headquarters to bring costs down. You charge your members a bit more to help out with the costs.

And then there's the future of the Sport.

There is an acknowledged lack of interest, so I'm led to believe, in youngsters wishing to become scrutineers or Marshals etc. So the very people that you need to man a framework to enable all forms of motorsport is diminishing.

One approach to get more people involved is to make it free to be a member of the organization giving the opportunity to become a Marshal, a Scrutineer or whatever and to send them on low cost or even free training courses and you also make some license packs or whatever free also to encourage their joining or getting involved.

As a benefit, for your existing older members who may be put off my the cost of medicals, let's make that free too and make the new compulsory eye tests free as well. Add to this, a smattering of discounts on things that people in motorsport may also find useful, like cheaper fuel, cheaper motorfactors and cheaper tyres.

MUK are continuing, like a st load of other businesses to search for sponsorship and whilst they continue that search, we as members have to help out.

Now I may be very naïve, not very bright or just missing the point, but doesn't all the reasons for the costs going up make sense?

Not after an argument and you'll note I haven't insulted anyone or even brought Brexit in to it, but please put me right on why I may be wrong.

At the end of the day, I know that the £100 increase for next year (I've upgraded my level too, so without that it would have been a £50 increase) isn't going to line Dave Richards' pocket et al, but it will be put back into funding for the continuation and future of our sport. Personally, couldn't give a toss about the increase, seems reasonable to me.

Love to all.
You may have hit the nail on the head. Perhaps you should apply to be MUK’s PR person because they are sure cr@p at it.
My only comment is that MUK might have given us all 12 months notice and might have spread the increases over, say, 3 years.

shaunroche

186 posts

94 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
mcdjl said:
Marshal registration with MSUK is already free and with most/all organising clubs for circuit racing. Joining the BMMC is ~£30/year (and technically optional for marshalling if registered with an organising club) but can be refunded against the overalls every other year. MSUK also sponsor the marshals training and have done for some years.
I can't quite tell if you were aware of that or not, but its certainly some of the costs.
Hello mate, no, absolutely not aware of it and happy to be corrected or educated. I think that's one of the purposes of a Forum.

Like I say, I'm struggling to see why so many are up in arms when the reasons have been clearly and concisely demonstrated by MSUK. I guess I'm choosing to believe what they're telling me!

I think that in order to arrest the decline in both members and creating an interest for kids (the 'future') and attracting new members, this will all cost money. Add to that the increase in insurance costs and I can see where they're coming from.

I appreciate I may come across as naïve or ill informed, but it all seems to hold water to me.

https://motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/1...

https://www.motorsportuk.org/2020-licence-restruct...


Edited by shaunroche on Tuesday 26th November 15:34

mcdjl

4,032 posts

143 months

Tuesday 26th November
quotequote all
shaunroche said:
Hello mate, no, absolutely not aware of it and happy to be corrected or educated. I think that's one of the purposes of a Forum.

Like I say, I'm struggling to see why so many are up in arms when the reasons have been clearly and concisely demonstrated by MSUK. I guess I'm choosing to believe what they're telling me!

I think that in order to arrest the decline in both members and creating an interest for kids (the 'future') and attracting new members, this will all cost money. Add to that the increase in insurance costs and I can see where they're coming from.

I appreciate I may come across as naïve or ill informed, but it all seems to hold water to me.

https://motorsportuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/1...

https://www.motorsportuk.org/2020-licence-restruct...


Edited by shaunroche on Tuesday 26th November 15:34
I don't often see the drivers costs....they're far too high for me, thats why my motorsport is done (hopefully) at the side of the track. Its a difficult one, people get involved at lla levels of motorsport for a variety of different reasons, but keeping them interested through changing commitments is a big chllenge: a large number of marshals take time out for families, that's difficult for roles eg scrutineer/time keeper where a lot of experience/continuity is preferable.

Notwen

744 posts

191 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
mcdjl said:
Marshal registration with MSUK is already free and with most/all organising clubs for circuit racing. Joining the BMMC is ~£30/year (and technically optional for marshalling if registered with an organising club) but can be refunded against the overalls every other year. MSUK also sponsor the marshals training and have done for some years.
i can't quite tell if you were aware of that or not, but its certainly some of the costs.
As a resting racer and Clerk of the Course, it has always surprised me that, despite us being unpaid volunteers, we still had to fork out for an MSA/MSUK license for the pleasure of looking after all the drivers smiling faces. So I am glad to see that a very small amount of my yearly budget has been reduced, now my officials license is free.

Each year I think about renewing my race licence, with my extra £37 now in my pocket, I may put it toward renewing now I don't need a medical, just an eye test.




Edited by Notwen on Monday 2nd December 11:21

ceesvdelst

70 posts

3 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
I saw a thing from Belgium yesterday, it's called a champions day small little rally stage, loads of cars, presume offering rides etc.

Would also be a great way to introduce fans to marshalling, timekeeping, all sorts of things.

I recall a similar thing done in France a few years ago.

Seems there could be a lot more done instead of sitting there taking the money.

Kraken

1,272 posts

148 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
ceesvdelst said:
Seems there could be a lot more done instead of sitting there taking the money.
Which is exactly what MSUK have said but people seem to ignore them. They freely admit they've been guilty of just being a licensing department but are now changing to reflect the majority of the license holders rather than an elite few. Problem is a lot of people seem to expect it to be an instantaneous change when it will take time as all major shifts in policy do with any organisation.