Big changes to MSA licences - Medicals
Discussion
ceesvdelst said:
Club fees, ARDS, medicals, entry fees, endless rule changes to change gear.
It all adds up to make it very hard for new people to even consider doing these types of sport.
When in other cases you just need a joining fee a bit of gear and off you go
Club fees are to help towards the organisers costs, not for the MSUK.It all adds up to make it very hard for new people to even consider doing these types of sport.
When in other cases you just need a joining fee a bit of gear and off you go
ARDS is a one off and a sensible level of minimal training for someone about to be unleashed into a racing environment. That mostly goes to the company providing the training with the pre course info now supplied free by the MSUK. Not something really required for the type of non MSUK events like club sprints, which are lower risk for competitors or marshals.
Medicals now not required for many people, £60 every 2 years hardly breaks the bank if you need one. If you need the ecg test you are doing something beyond a cheap clubbie event.
Entry fees is mainly to cover the venue costs, you pay more at more expensive venues. Circuit hire with all the backup required is expensive.
Safety gear costs is the only one you may have a point with, but even there the MSUK has moved to extend life for some items. When i first started competing your helmet was time limited, now its based on spec and condition. They have extended life on other items beyond the FIA dates.
I competed in and also helped organise and run non MSUK events for years, the money spent to do these events isnt that much cheaper, no motorsport using a decent venue is cheap to run.
ceesvdelst said:
Club fees, ARDS, medicals, entry fees, endless rule changes to change gear.
It all adds up to make it very hard for new people to even consider doing these types of sport.
When in other cases you just need a joining fee a bit of gear and off you go
Club fees are paid to clubsIt all adds up to make it very hard for new people to even consider doing these types of sport.
When in other cases you just need a joining fee a bit of gear and off you go
Most of the ARDS fees goes to the company running them
Medicals go to whoever does the medical
Entry Fees go to the club (with a small % going to MUK)
Rule changes are done by the various committees who are maid up of competitors and club members (if you need new seat, overalls etc non of that money goes to MUK)
So where is MUK "bleeding you dry"?
But what most of these other events don't give you are better insurance cover, better safety standards both in vehicle safety and event safety.
jsf said:
Club fees are to help towards the organisers costs, not for the MSUK.
ARDS is a one off and a sensible level of minimal training for someone about to be unleashed into a racing environment. That mostly goes to the company providing the training with the pre course info now supplied free by the MSUK. Not something really required for the type of non MSUK events like club sprints, which are lower risk for competitors or marshals.
Medicals now not required for many people, £60 every 2 years hardly breaks the bank if you need one. If you need the ecg test you are doing something beyond a cheap clubbie event.
Entry fees is mainly to cover the venue costs, you pay more at more expensive venues. Circuit hire with all the backup required is expensive.
Safety gear costs is the only one you may have a point with, but even there the MSUK has moved to extend life for some items. When i first started competing your helmet was time limited, now its based on spec and condition. They have extended life on other items beyond the FIA dates.
I competed in and also helped organise and run non MSUK events for years, the money spent to do these events isnt that much cheaper, no motorsport using a decent venue is cheap to run.
No medicals, yeah let's double the licence costs for those at the bottom, and sort it for all the old boys in the old boy club its cheaper.ARDS is a one off and a sensible level of minimal training for someone about to be unleashed into a racing environment. That mostly goes to the company providing the training with the pre course info now supplied free by the MSUK. Not something really required for the type of non MSUK events like club sprints, which are lower risk for competitors or marshals.
Medicals now not required for many people, £60 every 2 years hardly breaks the bank if you need one. If you need the ecg test you are doing something beyond a cheap clubbie event.
Entry fees is mainly to cover the venue costs, you pay more at more expensive venues. Circuit hire with all the backup required is expensive.
Safety gear costs is the only one you may have a point with, but even there the MSUK has moved to extend life for some items. When i first started competing your helmet was time limited, now its based on spec and condition. They have extended life on other items beyond the FIA dates.
I competed in and also helped organise and run non MSUK events for years, the money spent to do these events isnt that much cheaper, no motorsport using a decent venue is cheap to run.
Permit fees going up, passed to the competitor.
Some circuit fees going up by more than average, yep squeeze the competitor more.
Edited by Zoobeef on Tuesday 24th December 11:54
Zoobeef said:
No medicals, yeah let's double the licence costs for those at the bottom, and sort it for all the old boys in the old boy club its cheaper.
Permit fees going up, passed to the competitor.
Some circuit fees going up by more than average, yep squeeze the competitor more.
Makes me chuckle this does. What old boys? Have you seen the price of the international licences? Did you read any of the reports in the latest MSUK magazine? As they said there we have far cheaper licenses than most Western European countries and in Australia their license costs more but they have more license holders despite having a lower population so it's obviously not license costs that are holding people back. They are a tiny proportion of the overall costs.Permit fees going up, passed to the competitor.
Some circuit fees going up by more than average, yep squeeze the competitor more.
To put things in perspective I was reading posts on other site yesterday about work that MSV are doing to Cadwell park. Virtually every comment was asking if they were putting more power into the paddock with most from people who have been vocal about the license cost increases. When I queried why they wanted power (I've been racing decades and never needed power in the paddock) they put up pictures of motorhomes that cost the same as a house in many parts of the country. Yet an increase of a £1 a week for their license is making them think about giving up racing apparently...
Kraken said:
Makes me chuckle this does. What old boys? Have you seen the price of the international licences? Did you read any of the reports in the latest MSUK magazine? As they said there we have far cheaper licenses than most Western European countries and in Australia their license costs more but they have more license holders despite having a lower population so it's obviously not license costs that are holding people back. They are a tiny proportion of the overall costs.
To put things in perspective I was reading posts on other site yesterday about work that MSV are doing to Cadwell park. Virtually every comment was asking if they were putting more power into the paddock with most from people who have been vocal about the license cost increases. When I queried why they wanted power (I've been racing decades and never needed power in the paddock) they put up pictures of motorhomes that cost the same as a house in many parts of the country. Yet an increase of a £1 a week for their license is making them think about giving up racing apparently...
Old boys, you know, people that now dont need medicals, the old ones.To put things in perspective I was reading posts on other site yesterday about work that MSV are doing to Cadwell park. Virtually every comment was asking if they were putting more power into the paddock with most from people who have been vocal about the license cost increases. When I queried why they wanted power (I've been racing decades and never needed power in the paddock) they put up pictures of motorhomes that cost the same as a house in many parts of the country. Yet an increase of a £1 a week for their license is making them think about giving up racing apparently...
If it's such a minuscule amount. Why dont you pay mine?
jsf said:
Zoobeef said:
If it's such a minuscule amount. Why dont you pay mine?
You can't debate with this level of stupid. 
When the reality is there were 3 of us competitors sleeping on the floor or a cot bed in the back of someone elses enclosed trailer at the last race.
I'd love to sleep in an enclosed trailer, your mate lucked in.
I pitch tent on my car trailer (hired) and sleep on an inflatable mattress, or on the grass...
I am looking at the overall costs for a race weekend and the amount I can save which will decide whether I race or not. Simple economics, no race mechanic unless I can persuade my mate to come along but he now won't unless I put him in a hotel.
That and if I can be bothered to trailer the car to the other end of the country over a weekend.
When I had support from a few sources I managed ok but was exhausted. Now, less likely.
I pitch tent on my car trailer (hired) and sleep on an inflatable mattress, or on the grass...
I am looking at the overall costs for a race weekend and the amount I can save which will decide whether I race or not. Simple economics, no race mechanic unless I can persuade my mate to come along but he now won't unless I put him in a hotel.
That and if I can be bothered to trailer the car to the other end of the country over a weekend.
When I had support from a few sources I managed ok but was exhausted. Now, less likely.
The point has to be, that in things like bike enduro, autograss, short oval racing, drag racing and more basic forms of Motorsport you can buy a car and trailer, a basic licence, some safety gear and be on track.
There is no needto join about 4 clubs, regions, associations etc, then another club, pay for a pointless, utterly pointless test that profits the company running it and proves nothing.
Yes the events are not the same rprestige, but tell me really what is prestigious about running round Silverstone in a bog slow MX5 on a Saturday afternoon in front of 200 people, you get the same fun, camaraderie, racing, usually closer racing to be honest, usually more track time, closer venues, no hotel fees as events are done on a day, invariably cheaper cars, tyres etc.
There MUST be a way to makes circuit racing cheaper, or is it simply a case of bleed those that do it dry, be thankful for the tracks we have and put up with it? Seemingly so.
There is no needto join about 4 clubs, regions, associations etc, then another club, pay for a pointless, utterly pointless test that profits the company running it and proves nothing.
Yes the events are not the same rprestige, but tell me really what is prestigious about running round Silverstone in a bog slow MX5 on a Saturday afternoon in front of 200 people, you get the same fun, camaraderie, racing, usually closer racing to be honest, usually more track time, closer venues, no hotel fees as events are done on a day, invariably cheaper cars, tyres etc.
There MUST be a way to makes circuit racing cheaper, or is it simply a case of bleed those that do it dry, be thankful for the tracks we have and put up with it? Seemingly so.
Zoobeef said:
Well the view above that all competitors are rocking around in motor homes while their engineers are sorting the cars is the deluded view about the competitors that they are a cash cow that can be squeezed a little more.
What I said was that the people I've seen complaining the most about the license increases are also the ones with the big motorhomes. I, and most of my mates who sleep in their van/trailer, see it more as the license has been incredibly cheap for a long time rather than it being very expensive now.Kraken said:
What I said was that the people I've seen complaining the most about the license increases are also the ones with the big motorhomes. I, and most of my mates who sleep in their van/trailer, see it more as the license has been incredibly cheap for a long time rather than it being very expensive now.
When you think of where petrol has come from and all the processes it's gone through and is only £1.22 a litre. Incredibly cheap. I assume you would be happy if that doubled too?Zoobeef said:
When you think of where petrol has come from and all the processes it's gone through and is only £1.22 a litre. Incredibly cheap. I assume you would be happy if that doubled too?
Shell V-power is 1.42/litre today. Petrol was £0.34/litre when i started competing.That would mean an equivalent £23.70 for my rally licence in 1988 for the same cost % rise. Doesn't sound too far out.
There is a long thread about this elsewhere, but basically the justification is the fact insurance costs have gone through the roof in recent years.
Its not just limited to the UK, for instance the situation in Ireland as almost got to the point where Rallying is impractical due to the insurance costs.
MSA/MUK has had some very large insurance claims in the past few years, high profile fatal crashes like the one on the JIm Clark rally, but also ones that have gone under the radar, a couple on cross country events and even a death on a car trial.
Mind you elsewhere in this forum somebody pointed out the cost of MUK directors was actually over half a million pounds last year, on a 9 million turnover. So perhaps there are other factors coming in to play. One single director alone was paid over half that amount..... no prizes for guessing who that was.
Its not just limited to the UK, for instance the situation in Ireland as almost got to the point where Rallying is impractical due to the insurance costs.
MSA/MUK has had some very large insurance claims in the past few years, high profile fatal crashes like the one on the JIm Clark rally, but also ones that have gone under the radar, a couple on cross country events and even a death on a car trial.
Mind you elsewhere in this forum somebody pointed out the cost of MUK directors was actually over half a million pounds last year, on a 9 million turnover. So perhaps there are other factors coming in to play. One single director alone was paid over half that amount..... no prizes for guessing who that was.
The stupid thing is, if you read the judges report about Jim Clark it is not particularly bad, he is quite fair. I suppose the insurance companies simply took it to heart.
Snowman aswell, a lot of it was pure accident.
Jim Clark however was not merely an accident it was a lot of things, and for me has made rally viewing far less of a thing to want to do now, and mainly only in the UK, not elsewhere where they have a more "you go, you take the pain" attitude towards it. Insurance companies will stop at nothing to try and bleed the world dry.
And, this is Britain however, the 53rd state.
Snowman aswell, a lot of it was pure accident.
Jim Clark however was not merely an accident it was a lot of things, and for me has made rally viewing far less of a thing to want to do now, and mainly only in the UK, not elsewhere where they have a more "you go, you take the pain" attitude towards it. Insurance companies will stop at nothing to try and bleed the world dry.
And, this is Britain however, the 53rd state.
As someone who's sitting their ARDS for the first time in the coming month or so I guess its one less thign to worry about not having to get a medical done.
I assume for the purposes of getting the sight test done, I can do this by means of a regular eye test at my optician and ask them to fill in the form accordingly?
I assume for the purposes of getting the sight test done, I can do this by means of a regular eye test at my optician and ask them to fill in the form accordingly?
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