Uk club racing after covid19?
Discussion
The whole thing is a total mess. In recent weeks I have been to Cadwell, Donington and Oulton . All MSV circuits , of course , and open for spectators .Of course there are some new things- no access to paddock, lots of sanitiser points - but it was neallry back to normal . I had no cause for any concern whatsoever, with nearly everybody maintaining distance and behaving properly.
Last week I went to York dragstrip - like MSV it was ebooking only , with a cap on numbers.
But my local hillclimb , Harewood is closed , as is Croft - both BARC venues. I asked why and was told it was a MSUK diktat, if clearly not a binding one as MSV is not breaking any law . I asked MSUK what was going on ,and was essentailly given some waffle in reply , including the acknowledgement that MSV was admitting what MSUK called day visitors for some reason best known to themselves.
We can go to the pub , post office , Tescos , the barber, the cinema , casino and any shop. But we can't stand on a windy hilltop or in the open air at some race tracks? I can see why stuff like BTCC is hard - too popular- but most events attract relatively small numbers and are not a problem .
Except to MSUK it seems
Last week I went to York dragstrip - like MSV it was ebooking only , with a cap on numbers.
But my local hillclimb , Harewood is closed , as is Croft - both BARC venues. I asked why and was told it was a MSUK diktat, if clearly not a binding one as MSV is not breaking any law . I asked MSUK what was going on ,and was essentailly given some waffle in reply , including the acknowledgement that MSV was admitting what MSUK called day visitors for some reason best known to themselves.
We can go to the pub , post office , Tescos , the barber, the cinema , casino and any shop. But we can't stand on a windy hilltop or in the open air at some race tracks? I can see why stuff like BTCC is hard - too popular- but most events attract relatively small numbers and are not a problem .
Except to MSUK it seems
Order66 said:
So I've got a double-header event due soon and have been told that facemasks have to be worn from entry to the venue until exiting. Over the weekend that means north of 18 hours with the mask on. Even if I'm parked a looooong distance from other competitors and on my lonesome, and never indoors.
To be honest it's putting me off entering. I will be honest and say I dislike the masks and have very slight claustrophobia/anxiety which makes me uncomfortable over an extended period with them.
Is this a MUK directive? If it is I can't see in it any of their online documents. Is it common to all other club racing in the UK? I don't see the same regulation being applied to track days etc.
I was at Thruxton with CSCC 3 weeks ago (car broke in testing so didn’t race, but stayed around in the paddock) and there were no masks except inside buildings.To be honest it's putting me off entering. I will be honest and say I dislike the masks and have very slight claustrophobia/anxiety which makes me uncomfortable over an extended period with them.
Is this a MUK directive? If it is I can't see in it any of their online documents. Is it common to all other club racing in the UK? I don't see the same regulation being applied to track days etc.
coppice said:
The whole thing is a total mess. In recent weeks I have been to Cadwell, Donington and Oulton . All MSV circuits , of course , and open for spectators .Of course there are some new things- no access to paddock, lots of sanitiser points - but it was neallry back to normal . I had no cause for any concern whatsoever, with nearly everybody maintaining distance and behaving properly.
Last week I went to York dragstrip - like MSV it was ebooking only , with a cap on numbers.
But my local hillclimb , Harewood is closed , as is Croft - both BARC venues. I asked why and was told it was a MSUK diktat, if clearly not a binding one as MSV is not breaking any law . I asked MSUK what was going on ,and was essentailly given some waffle in reply , including the acknowledgement that MSV was admitting what MSUK called day visitors for some reason best known to themselves.
We can go to the pub , post office , Tescos , the barber, the cinema , casino and any shop. But we can't stand on a windy hilltop or in the open air at some race tracks? I can see why stuff like BTCC is hard - too popular- but most events attract relatively small numbers and are not a problem .
Except to MSUK it seems
I don’t think the spectator issue is a MSUK one. That’s down to the venues themselves and how they interact with the local authorities. The MSUK guidance relates to requirements on track and within the pit / paddock area, and spectators are excluded from these. The public areas are looked after by the venue, and that’s why MSV and cracked on whereas other have not.Last week I went to York dragstrip - like MSV it was ebooking only , with a cap on numbers.
But my local hillclimb , Harewood is closed , as is Croft - both BARC venues. I asked why and was told it was a MSUK diktat, if clearly not a binding one as MSV is not breaking any law . I asked MSUK what was going on ,and was essentailly given some waffle in reply , including the acknowledgement that MSV was admitting what MSUK called day visitors for some reason best known to themselves.
We can go to the pub , post office , Tescos , the barber, the cinema , casino and any shop. But we can't stand on a windy hilltop or in the open air at some race tracks? I can see why stuff like BTCC is hard - too popular- but most events attract relatively small numbers and are not a problem .
Except to MSUK it seems
Thruxton is open to prebooked spectators this weekend, and I’ve just booked a ticket for next Sunday. Meanwhile in wales a that’s planned sprint at llandow today was cancelled at very short notice, yet there’s one taking place at pembrey tomorrow..
df76 said:
Order66 said:
So I've got a double-header event due soon and have been told that facemasks have to be worn from entry to the venue until exiting. Over the weekend that means north of 18 hours with the mask on. Even if I'm parked a looooong distance from other competitors and on my lonesome, and never indoors.
To be honest it's putting me off entering. I will be honest and say I dislike the masks and have very slight claustrophobia/anxiety which makes me uncomfortable over an extended period with them.
Is this a MUK directive? If it is I can't see in it any of their online documents. Is it common to all other club racing in the UK? I don't see the same regulation being applied to track days etc.
Makes absolutely no sense and will probably do more harm than good (as masks get wet). Who's the organising club?? Not seen anything like that written in any other Instructions.To be honest it's putting me off entering. I will be honest and say I dislike the masks and have very slight claustrophobia/anxiety which makes me uncomfortable over an extended period with them.
Is this a MUK directive? If it is I can't see in it any of their online documents. Is it common to all other club racing in the UK? I don't see the same regulation being applied to track days etc.
Edited by Order66 on Saturday 15th August 08:28
We’re lucky to have MSV, there’s times where obsessive organisation is exactly what keeps things on the rails and one of those times is now.
I’ve been to Cadwell, Snett and Donny so far and they have all been well set up in every detail, some of the smaller tracks may not have the infrastructure or drive to do the same but it’s clearly possible to operate most events with a few sensible precautions.
I’ve been to Cadwell, Snett and Donny so far and they have all been well set up in every detail, some of the smaller tracks may not have the infrastructure or drive to do the same but it’s clearly possible to operate most events with a few sensible precautions.
coppice said:
The whole thing is a total mess. In recent weeks I have been to Cadwell, Donington and Oulton . All MSV circuits , of course , and open for spectators .Of course there are some new things- no access to paddock, lots of sanitiser points - but it was neallry back to normal . I had no cause for any concern whatsoever, with nearly everybody maintaining distance and behaving properly.
Last week I went to York dragstrip - like MSV it was ebooking only , with a cap on numbers.
But my local hillclimb , Harewood is closed , as is Croft - both BARC venues. I asked why and was told it was a MSUK diktat, if clearly not a binding one as MSV is not breaking any law . I asked MSUK what was going on ,and was essentailly given some waffle in reply , including the acknowledgement that MSV was admitting what MSUK called day visitors for some reason best known to themselves.
We can go to the pub , post office , Tescos , the barber, the cinema , casino and any shop. But we can't stand on a windy hilltop or in the open air at some race tracks? I can see why stuff like BTCC is hard - too popular- but most events attract relatively small numbers and are not a problem .
Except to MSUK it seems
One of the reasons Harewood isn't accepting spectators is you can't seperate the spectators from the competitors. ( Which is a MSUK requirement) Croft is similar, whilst it may be possible to do it a Croft. The cost is likely to be more than the gate receipts, for all but BTCC.Last week I went to York dragstrip - like MSV it was ebooking only , with a cap on numbers.
But my local hillclimb , Harewood is closed , as is Croft - both BARC venues. I asked why and was told it was a MSUK diktat, if clearly not a binding one as MSV is not breaking any law . I asked MSUK what was going on ,and was essentailly given some waffle in reply , including the acknowledgement that MSV was admitting what MSUK called day visitors for some reason best known to themselves.
We can go to the pub , post office , Tescos , the barber, the cinema , casino and any shop. But we can't stand on a windy hilltop or in the open air at some race tracks? I can see why stuff like BTCC is hard - too popular- but most events attract relatively small numbers and are not a problem .
Except to MSUK it seems
Of course you can. Just confine spectating to defined areas , excluding Quarry.
Incidentally , the explanations I have been given do not involve local authorities at all , but are attributed to MSUK .
MSV have shown how to do it , and very well done to them . I wish other venues and MSUk would learn from how it can be done , and get a bloody grip .
Incidentally , the explanations I have been given do not involve local authorities at all , but are attributed to MSUK .
MSV have shown how to do it , and very well done to them . I wish other venues and MSUk would learn from how it can be done , and get a bloody grip .
coppice said:
Of course you can. Just confine spectating to defined areas , excluding Quarry.
Incidentally , the explanations I have been given do not involve local authorities at all , but are attributed to MSUK .
So how do they do it then coppice? The toilet block is at the top of the hill next to race admin. They haven't got any money to hire in toilets etc. you would need to go down the tracks at either side of the course, even then you are not necessarily isolated from competitors, going down the hill. That would require staffing. Money the hillclimb just doesn't have.Incidentally , the explanations I have been given do not involve local authorities at all , but are attributed to MSUK .
Councils are involved in these discussions, as are the events Medical Officer and the newly created post of Covid 19 Officer.
As I have said before each circuit and club are making their own decisions what is and isn't allowed. Hence why the next event at Knockhill will be behind "closed doors" and with face masks being worn by everyone at all times.
From the last bulletin I have seen (not from knockhill), even in a car if a driver has an open face balaclava he/she will need to have something to cover their nose and mouth.
Simple - you confine spectators to hill top car park and encourage use of the lower viewing areas down by start and all the way up to Farmhouse. Accessible on foot or by vehicle,- as I have done many , many times - and it is already equipped with a couple of portaloos . Hiring two more might be an idea - so do so from gate receipt.
It really needn't be complex or expensive . It is always possible to find a reason not to do something, but thank God people like MSV are a bit more resourceful .
I dare say Councils are involved in event permits - Lincolnshire, Derbyshire , East Riding and Cheshire county councils were therefore happy , presumably , to sanction the events I've been to . and which took place without incident . .
God above,we can park in Tescos , buy a coffee from a cafe , what the is so hard about holding a low key motorsport event? .
It really needn't be complex or expensive . It is always possible to find a reason not to do something, but thank God people like MSV are a bit more resourceful .
I dare say Councils are involved in event permits - Lincolnshire, Derbyshire , East Riding and Cheshire county councils were therefore happy , presumably , to sanction the events I've been to . and which took place without incident . .
God above,we can park in Tescos , buy a coffee from a cafe , what the is so hard about holding a low key motorsport event? .
Edited by coppice on Saturday 15th August 18:10
coppice said:
Of course you can. Just confine spectating to defined areas , excluding Quarry.
Incidentally , the explanations I have been given do not involve local authorities at all , but are attributed to MSUK .
MSV have shown how to do it , and very well done to them . I wish other venues and MSUk would learn from how it can be done , and get a bloody grip .
What else could the MSUK do?? If the landowners don’t want spectators at the venue I can’t see how the governing body can insist. Protecting the sport (competitors and officials), and therefore operating in a “bubble” seems vital. Otherwise there would be no motorsport at all.Incidentally , the explanations I have been given do not involve local authorities at all , but are attributed to MSUK .
MSV have shown how to do it , and very well done to them . I wish other venues and MSUk would learn from how it can be done , and get a bloody grip .
Went to Thruxton today. They are doing temperate readings on your forehead with one of those IR guns as you go through the entrance. But because you can park your car within 100m of the gate and you have only just stepped out of an 18-deg climate controlled vehicle they are getting comedy low readings 
Somewhat poor signage on the bogs too saying 'When Busy Strictly One-In One-Out' which some people took to mean 'queue up outside if there's anyone else in the massive toilet block'.
Somewhat poor signage on the bogs too saying 'When Busy Strictly One-In One-Out' which some people took to mean 'queue up outside if there's anyone else in the massive toilet block'.
df76 said:
What else could the MSUK do?? If the landowners don’t want spectators at the venue I can’t see how the governing body can insist. Protecting the sport (competitors and officials), and therefore operating in a “bubble” seems vital. Otherwise there would be no motorsport at all.
MSUK could do its best to encourage events to go ahead . The problem I highlighted was not a case of the landowner (Who in this case is the club anyway ) objecting , but the fact that MSUK have told them they can't have spectators. This, presumably explains why MSUK witter on about 'day visitors ' . Why a bubble? There isn't one in my market place , nor the park opposite where I live, nor , in fact ,anywhere I go . I fully endorse sensible precautions like masks in shops etc,and possibly even a closed paddock (but why ?- maintain distance , don't enter garages ? ) but this sledgehammer policy is absurd - kids going back to school,many grown ups back at work indoors and yet I can't stand outside at a race track ? It;s crazy ,and I am at a loss to understand why so many blithely seem to accept it instead of objecting to its absurdity .
I understood that Harewood, originally bought by Arnold Burton , was now owned by BARC Yorkshire Centre. I am aware of Croft's ownership position with freehold being vested in AN Other, with BARC enjoying a licence or lease (I assume the latter ) .
But actually , so what? Is there any evidence , in the case of either , that it is the landowner vetoing activities -and if so , to what end ?
But actually , so what? Is there any evidence , in the case of either , that it is the landowner vetoing activities -and if so , to what end ?
coppice said:
df76 said:
What else could the MSUK do?? If the landowners don’t want spectators at the venue I can’t see how the governing body can insist. Protecting the sport (competitors and officials), and therefore operating in a “bubble” seems vital. Otherwise there would be no motorsport at all.
MSUK could do its best to encourage events to go ahead . The problem I highlighted was not a case of the landowner (Who in this case is the club anyway ) objecting , but the fact that MSUK have told them they can't have spectators. This, presumably explains why MSUK witter on about 'day visitors ' . Why a bubble? There isn't one in my market place , nor the park opposite where I live, nor , in fact ,anywhere I go . I fully endorse sensible precautions like masks in shops etc,and possibly even a closed paddock (but why ?- maintain distance , don't enter garages ? ) but this sledgehammer policy is absurd - kids going back to school,many grown ups back at work indoors and yet I can't stand outside at a race track ? It;s crazy ,and I am at a loss to understand why so many blithely seem to accept it instead of objecting to its absurdity .
Having read the COVID guidance, there is no direct consideration of visitors / spectators, and it's for the venue organiser to deal with that. It's not dictated by MSUK, but the venue will have to deal with the issue and liaise with the relevant local authority. Clearly some have been better than others, and some have decided that the issues are too challenging / not worth the extra investment.
Given that there has been no spectators at any other sporting event in the UK (until this weekend) I can see how crucial it has been to create a "bubble" to allow the sport to happen. Whether we agree with that approach isn't massively relevant, because without it the MSUK would not have been able to create viable guidance that meets national requirements. If you think it's absurd then you have to write to your local MP. But sports national bodies are working within a risk adverse environment, and it would only take one COVID hotspot for it all to unravel.
I'm frustrated that we can't get on as normal, but also glad that there is some sport and it happened quite early on really. Let's hope things improve for 2021, although I'm expecting that many of the constraints will be in place for at least part of next season.
It's just a buggers' muddle.
I have been told by one club that they ' cannot have spectators until further notice , following MSUK Guidelines . ..'.
Motorsport means a lot to many people - whether as site owner , participant , organiser , employee , volunteer , punter or reporter. ,and I hate to see its future being compromised because fingers seem to be being pointed in different directions
as to the reason venues are closed .
MSV seems to have got their act together well - maybe it is too much to hope that other clubs. venues could speak to them so best practice could be shared ? There is no relevant difference between Cadwell and Croft, Thruxton and Oulton - except two of them are shut .
I have been told by one club that they ' cannot have spectators until further notice , following MSUK Guidelines . ..'.
Motorsport means a lot to many people - whether as site owner , participant , organiser , employee , volunteer , punter or reporter. ,and I hate to see its future being compromised because fingers seem to be being pointed in different directions
as to the reason venues are closed .
MSV seems to have got their act together well - maybe it is too much to hope that other clubs. venues could speak to them so best practice could be shared ? There is no relevant difference between Cadwell and Croft, Thruxton and Oulton - except two of them are shut .
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