Uk club racing after covid19?
Discussion
covboy said:
Don't forget MSVR who run meetings also own 5 of the circuits so can please themselves over "hire" fees
Yes and no. Whilst at the end of the day it is just moving the same money around. They are run as separate companies, so have their own accounts. (Just look at companies house to see how many companies are registered under the MSV banner)I am really looking forward to racing again but do wonder how realistic racing this season is.
I take the point about no spectators but most clubbies don’t have too many but say a CSCC meeting must easily have 500 people there and many are not in the first flush of youth. The two pals who help me are both fit and active but in their 70’s and I cannot see their wives letting them come racing at the moment.
Maybe if the circuits are prepared to slash hire fees then it would be possible to run much smaller meetings but they are going to be feeling the pinch and doubtless will need to maximise income.
Personally I am thinking of buying a decent simulator
I take the point about no spectators but most clubbies don’t have too many but say a CSCC meeting must easily have 500 people there and many are not in the first flush of youth. The two pals who help me are both fit and active but in their 70’s and I cannot see their wives letting them come racing at the moment.
Maybe if the circuits are prepared to slash hire fees then it would be possible to run much smaller meetings but they are going to be feeling the pinch and doubtless will need to maximise income.
Personally I am thinking of buying a decent simulator
Kickstart said:
I am really looking forward to racing again but do wonder how realistic racing this season is.
I take the point about no spectators but most clubbies don’t have too many but say a CSCC meeting must easily have 500 people there and many are not in the first flush of youth. The two pals who help me are both fit and active but in their 70’s and I cannot see their wives letting them come racing at the moment.
Maybe if the circuits are prepared to slash hire fees then it would be possible to run much smaller meetings but they are going to be feeling the pinch and doubtless will need to maximise income.
Personally I am thinking of buying a decent simulator
I take your point. CSCC regularly have over 300 entries at a meeting, that’s over a weekend so broadly 150 cars per day. Most are double driven cars so there is c300 drivers anyway. If each car has an average of one helper (without factoring in family members who go along to support) that’s 450 per day before we get in to circuit staff, club staff, medical staff, marshals, officials, timing people, photographers, caterers etc.I take the point about no spectators but most clubbies don’t have too many but say a CSCC meeting must easily have 500 people there and many are not in the first flush of youth. The two pals who help me are both fit and active but in their 70’s and I cannot see their wives letting them come racing at the moment.
Maybe if the circuits are prepared to slash hire fees then it would be possible to run much smaller meetings but they are going to be feeling the pinch and doubtless will need to maximise income.
Personally I am thinking of buying a decent simulator
No doubt you could cut some of that out (photographers, caterers?), and no spectators, but not many. How many marshals are required to run Donington for eg? And can they work whilst maintains 2m separation?
Crucially, will you be able to get medical staff?
And you can’t easily do a driver change whilst social distancing!
I can’t see the circuits cutting hire fees, they will be keen to make up lost revenue, and will just book trackdays instead.
Simon Mason is now building and setting up race simulators in your area.
https://www.motorsport-tuition.com/
I think if we consider it in terms of the current lockdown conditions and advice then there are multiple reasons why this can not happen in the short / medium term. However, as the advice and requirements evolve over time there should be more flexibility. The the governing body can encourage some events to be planned. But that’s a while off yet and clubs would still have to deal with the risk of things changing again (and quite quickly).
df76 said:
I think if we consider it in terms of the current lockdown conditions and advice then there are multiple reasons why this can not happen in the short / medium term. However, as the advice and requirements evolve over time there should be more flexibility. The the governing body can encourage some events to be planned. But that’s a while off yet and clubs would still have to deal with the risk of things changing again (and quite quickly).
True I know a couple of clubs who are seriously wondering if the risk of running a meeting this year is worth it. Could end up getting everything in place, with all the cost that entails. Only for it to be pulled if we go back into lockdown. UK motorsport was quite lucky that the lock down happened when it did. Had it happened now several of the smaller clubs would have been even worse off.hunter 66 said:
Yes there will possibly be no racing this year sadly , besides SIM
if that happens I'd be seriously questioning the worth of MUK. It can't come to pass that the 'professional' championships get up and running but the clubs do not. That would be the MUK representing what, approx 1% of it's licence holders?If gov't lockdown rules prevent racing then fair enough, but if a way can be found to run the BTCC, then a way needs to be found to run some club races, and again the MUK will need to support those clubs willing to take the risk and get an event up and running.
I do get the feeling that the MUK think that the pro championships are the important ones because that's what get's eyeballs on motorsport, however it's the club competitors that generate the MUK's income.
I did think that club racing would be easier to run than the bigger meets due to logistics and less people but it does look like they will just focus on the big events. Also for championship is it really worth running them in what time we have left how many people will be in the position to do a full 6 meetings in a short time frame.
May well be worth cancelling 2020 and set back up for 2021 and just have a few non championship races with combined grids to bump up numbers. But that requires some sense which seems absent in uk club racing.
May well be worth cancelling 2020 and set back up for 2021 and just have a few non championship races with combined grids to bump up numbers. But that requires some sense which seems absent in uk club racing.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
if that happens I'd be seriously questioning the worth of MUK. It can't come to pass that the 'professional' championships get up and running but the clubs do not. That would be the MUK representing what, approx 1% of it's licence holders?
If gov't lockdown rules prevent racing then fair enough, but if a way can be found to run the BTCC, then a way needs to be found to run some club races, and again the MUK will need to support those clubs willing to take the risk and get an event up and running.
I do get the feeling that the MUK think that the pro championships are the important ones because that's what get's eyeballs on motorsport, however it's the club competitors that generate the MUK's income.
Clearly you don't understand how club motorsport works in the UK.If gov't lockdown rules prevent racing then fair enough, but if a way can be found to run the BTCC, then a way needs to be found to run some club races, and again the MUK will need to support those clubs willing to take the risk and get an event up and running.
I do get the feeling that the MUK think that the pro championships are the important ones because that's what get's eyeballs on motorsport, however it's the club competitors that generate the MUK's income.
The clubs hire the circuits, the circuits are businesses. That transaction has nothing to do with MSUK
The club then have to go to other companies to provide timekeepers, medics, etc again nothing to do with MSUK
So the biggest cost and the biggest risk falls to the club. Look at any club accounts and they are not exactly awash with money. Nor is MSUK, don't forget they have already put in £1m.
So how would you propose that MSUK do it? don't forget this isn't just about circuit racing.
How would you distribute this money (even if it did exist) fairly.
The "pro" series bring in money that is the big difference.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I do get the feeling that the MUK think that the pro championships are the important ones because that's what get's eyeballs on motorsport, however it's the club competitors that generate the MUK's income.
Could it possibly be that the pro championships have many people whose livelihoods depend on them perhaps?If club racers don't get to race it's hardly the end of the world now is it?
Plus, as has been said above, you're blaming the wrong people.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
if that happens I'd be seriously questioning the worth of MUK. It can't come to pass that the 'professional' championships get up and running but the clubs do not. That would be the MUK representing what, approx 1% of it's licence holders?
If gov't lockdown rules prevent racing then fair enough, but if a way can be found to run the BTCC, then a way needs to be found to run some club races, and again the MUK will need to support those clubs willing to take the risk and get an event up and running.
I do get the feeling that the MUK think that the pro championships are the important ones because that's what get's eyeballs on motorsport, however it's the club competitors that generate the MUK's income.
It feels to me like you are arguing a hypothetical situation here. We have no idea what's going to happen surely?If gov't lockdown rules prevent racing then fair enough, but if a way can be found to run the BTCC, then a way needs to be found to run some club races, and again the MUK will need to support those clubs willing to take the risk and get an event up and running.
I do get the feeling that the MUK think that the pro championships are the important ones because that's what get's eyeballs on motorsport, however it's the club competitors that generate the MUK's income.
Bert
Drumroll said:
Clearly you don't understand how club motorsport works in the UK.
The clubs hire the circuits, the circuits are businesses. That transaction has nothing to do with MSUK
The club then have to go to other companies to provide timekeepers, medics, etc again nothing to do with MSUK
So the biggest cost and the biggest risk falls to the club. Look at any club accounts and they are not exactly awash with money. Nor is MSUK, don't forget they have already put in £1m.
So how would you propose that MSUK do it? don't forget this isn't just about circuit racing.
How would you distribute this money (even if it did exist) fairly.
The "pro" series bring in money that is the big difference.
I know very well how club racing works in the UK. My point is that in amongst the bun fight for dates to hold races how will motor clubs get any sort of priority for club racing ( assuming that they have the appetite to run a meeting) if there is not some kind of coordination from the MUK? If it is left to market forces, then it is highly unlikely that club racing could book the circuit for a race meeting, as the dates would all be taken. the MUK need to ensure that they support as far as possible the return of club racing which may mean asking circuits to set aside a date or two. The pro series do not bring in the money however to the MUK nor the circuits. BTCC races are paid for by the circuit, who then generates an income from spectators attending. I am not sure how a 'behind closed doors' BTCC meeting is going to be lucrative to the circuits?The clubs hire the circuits, the circuits are businesses. That transaction has nothing to do with MSUK
The club then have to go to other companies to provide timekeepers, medics, etc again nothing to do with MSUK
So the biggest cost and the biggest risk falls to the club. Look at any club accounts and they are not exactly awash with money. Nor is MSUK, don't forget they have already put in £1m.
So how would you propose that MSUK do it? don't forget this isn't just about circuit racing.
How would you distribute this money (even if it did exist) fairly.
The "pro" series bring in money that is the big difference.
In terms or financial support, the MUK could underwrite or guarantee some of the staging costs of a club event in order to ensure that a race meeting is available for those of us who would like to race this year. Which includes me, and for the first time in 25 years it looks like I might not get a race this season.
So I'll say it again, the MUK need to ensure that the club competitor voice is represented, otherwise commercial interests will rule. However I suspect the influence that Gow has or had over the MUK may stymie that.
Kraken said:
Could it possibly be that the pro championships have many people whose livelihoods depend on them perhaps?
If club racers don't get to race it's hardly the end of the world now is it?
Plus, as has been said above, you're blaming the wrong people.
Again there are a lot of professional race teams that help/assist build clubman race cars. Probably more than there are teams that work in professional championships. Then you have the suppliers like Demon Tweeks who rely on the volume of club racers to support their business.If club racers don't get to race it's hardly the end of the world now is it?
Plus, as has been said above, you're blaming the wrong people.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
BertBert said:
t feels to me like you are arguing a hypothetical situation here. We have no idea what's going to happen surely?
Bert
hypothetically speaking you are probably right.Bert
I for one applaud MUK for making that happen.
Bert
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I know very well how club racing works in the UK. My point is that in amongst the bun fight for dates to hold races how will motor clubs get any sort of priority for club racing ( assuming that they have the appetite to run a meeting) if there is not some kind of coordination from the MUK? If it is left to market forces, then it is highly unlikely that club racing could book the circuit for a race meeting, as the dates would all be taken. the MUK need to ensure that they support as far as possible the return of club racing which may mean asking circuits to set aside a date or two. The pro series do not bring in the money however to the MUK nor the circuits. BTCC races are paid for by the circuit, who then generates an income from spectators attending. I am not sure how a 'behind closed doors' BTCC meeting is going to be lucrative to the circuits?
In terms or financial support, the MUK could underwrite or guarantee some of the staging costs of a club event in order to ensure that a race meeting is available for those of us who would like to race this year. Which includes me, and for the first time in 25 years it looks like I might not get a race this season.
So I'll say it again, the MUK need to ensure that the club competitor voice is represented, otherwise commercial interests will rule. However I suspect the influence that Gow has or had over the MUK may stymie that.
Again none of this is up to MSUK, In terms or financial support, the MUK could underwrite or guarantee some of the staging costs of a club event in order to ensure that a race meeting is available for those of us who would like to race this year. Which includes me, and for the first time in 25 years it looks like I might not get a race this season.
So I'll say it again, the MUK need to ensure that the club competitor voice is represented, otherwise commercial interests will rule. However I suspect the influence that Gow has or had over the MUK may stymie that.
Don't forget the ACU will also be in the same boat. (looking for dates)
There are also all the track day companies (both 2 and 4 wheel),etc. So how on earth do you expect MSUK to tell a business what dates it allocates to your clubs meeting?
There was a time when on the weekend of the British GP no other events took place MSA (as they were then) wouldn't issue a permit. Then some of the circuits (and to be honest some of the clubs) said it wasn't fair.
How can MSUK underwrite ar guarantee some of the costs of running an event? They would need money to do that, money they do not have.
Again I ask how do you expect the MSUK to make that sort of decision?
I understand you want to race and I know a lot others want to compete too. In events like sprints, hillclimbs rallies, autotests, karting as well as racing. I just don't see how any "interference" could be done fairly.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Again there are a lot of professional race teams that help/assist build clubman race cars. Probably more than there are teams that work in professional championships. Then you have the suppliers like Demon Tweeks who rely on the volume of club racers to support their business.
Online businesses in many sectors, including motorsport, are absolutely thriving at the moment. Lots of people at home with little to do apart from their hobbies. To be honest any series where people are paying a professional race team to build/run their car isn't my definition of a club series in this context but that's a different story.
My view is that if BTCC, British GT, BSB etc didn't get to run that would be far, far more damaging to the motorsport industry than club racing missing a season.
Edited by Kraken on Monday 4th May 06:55
Kraken said:
To be honest any series where people are paying a professional race team to build/run their car isn't my definition of a club series in this context but that's a different story.
I think if there was noone being paid to prep, help out and run cars there would be very few competitors in club racing. Each to their own view though. Perhaps start a series like that and see if it works.Bert
Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff