Discussion
itsallyellow said:
jellison said:
itsallyellow said:
Owen Oneil (raced in a griff this year) has bought it i believe.
The Tvr Challenge will be excellent next year!!
One more car infront of you in theory then (if driven to it's potential).The Tvr Challenge will be excellent next year!!
Like ai said no disrespect (all power to weight). And Don't get me started on people that put RV8's in Tuscans (where they had a Race AJP).
Well certainly they dont run on the same soft compound slicks anymore but the race engine is not that different from the road engine.
So your saying that Mark Hocking, Dean Cook, Sam Head, Steve Glynn in the Sagaris etc are all poor drivers? as i have out qualified them all on more than one occasion this year..
Maybee i got lucky or they just wern't trying then?
So your saying that Mark Hocking, Dean Cook, Sam Head, Steve Glynn in the Sagaris etc are all poor drivers? as i have out qualified them all on more than one occasion this year..
Maybee i got lucky or they just wern't trying then?
Edited by itsallyellow on Wednesday 12th November 15:30
itsallyellow said:
Well certainly they dont run on the same soft compound slicks anymore but the race engine is not that different from the road engine.
So your saying that Mark Hocking, Dean Cook, Sam Head, Steve Glynn in the Sagaris etc are all poor drivers? as i have out qualified them all on more than one occasion this year..
Maybee i got lucky or they just wern't trying then?
Not saying that - No idea. Much smaller frids now and the cars can be developed pretty much how a person likes (and all this nasty spoiler stuff). The 90's Tuscan series was a proper viable way for a career driver to move onto other things in racing - now it is just a club series just like 10's of other.So your saying that Mark Hocking, Dean Cook, Sam Head, Steve Glynn in the Sagaris etc are all poor drivers? as i have out qualified them all on more than one occasion this year..
Maybee i got lucky or they just wern't trying then?
Edited by itsallyellow on Wednesday 12th November 15:30
No idea like I say on the other, BUT a Tuscan with a close to full house AJPV8 SHOULD have a Big Advantage in Weight at least over a Cerb (how much does that weigh ready to race (fuelled up).
Andy - how much is a proper 90's spec Tuscan ready to race?
If you have beaten them maybe you are the new Messia! Keep it up
itsallyellow said:
Managed to get the cerb down to 1042kg(weighed at Silverstone) in race trim with fuel.
Its about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
They are very fat at that weight then - see Andy's page http://www.teamholdenracing.com/the_cars.aspIts about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
850kg! I'd ahve thought 900 would be closer (Andy).
But if you are beating them with similar spec engine and weigh 100-150kg more then you are doing a mega job (they should be more nimble as well being smaller).
Maybe the Tuscan drivers out there ain't that Hot! And / Or you are Bloody Good.
itsallyellow said:
Works both ways though. With my extra length and more efficent areo i can caryy a lot more speed through the longer quick corners.
Mike
No you are a RACING GOD Mike
My Griff if it ever gets built has a Wheelbase 4" shorter than a Tuscan / Chim and a whole s
tload less than a Cerb (racking up the racer excuses should I ever bring it out in TVR Series). I still think you should not get near a Full on Tuscan if it is driven as it should be!Laters - off to improve my power to weight.
jellison said:
itsallyellow said:
Managed to get the cerb down to 1042kg(weighed at Silverstone) in race trim with fuel.
Its about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
They are very fat at that weight then - see Andy's page http://www.teamholdenracing.com/the_cars.aspIts about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
850kg! I'd ahve thought 900 would be closer (Andy).
But if you are beating them with similar spec engine and weigh 100-150kg more then you are doing a mega job (they should be more nimble as well being smaller).
Maybe the Tuscan drivers out there ain't that Hot! And / Or you are Bloody Good.
Most Tuscans these days are 875-890kg. A bit like us drivers, they tend to put on weight over time. Owen's new car is a bit special - it weighs 825kg
itsallyellow said:
Managed to get the cerb down to 1042kg(weighed at Silverstone) in race trim with fuel.
Its about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
Don't know how much fuel your Cerb has with that weight but you've done really well to get down to that figure - it's pretty much the same as the Sag in fact.Its about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
Steve
GlynnsportRacing said:
itsallyellow said:
Managed to get the cerb down to 1042kg(weighed at Silverstone) in race trim with fuel.
Its about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
Don't know how much fuel your Cerb has with that weight but you've done really well to get down to that figure - it's pretty much the same as the Sag in fact.Its about 100kg heavier than the tuscans i race against.
Mike
Steve
Surely it is all pointless to add this much weight just to run some Halfords wings and splitters to get similar speeds.
Is the Sag thing Winning against proper light big power AJPV8 Tuscans?
Now we are totally off subject - I always doubted the number that were bandied about in the late 90's / early 2000's on the Race bhp of the Factory engines - 450-460bhp. Is that just more TVR Factory Marketing to big up the series at the time? Ore is 420 more in the ball park?
jellison said:
Why are these Sag things so heavy compared to a base Tuscan? adding the best part of 200kg with a different body shell!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surely it is all pointless to add this much weight just to run some Halfords wings and splitters to get similar speeds.
Is the Sag thing Winning against proper light big power AJPV8 Tuscans?
Now we are totally off subject - I always doubted the number that were bandied about in the late 90's / early 2000's on the Race bhp of the Factory engines - 450-460bhp. Is that just more TVR Factory Marketing to big up the series at the time? Ore is 420 more in the ball park?
TBH I don't think there are many race Tuscans out there now(with full AJP8 etc)that weigh much less than 900kg, probably due to the usual repairs along the way, addition of aero with some and the fact that few drivers are going to the trouble of ensuring they use all the lightest weight parts these days. For example, the compomotive wheels that most of us use now are v good but quite heavy.Surely it is all pointless to add this much weight just to run some Halfords wings and splitters to get similar speeds.
Is the Sag thing Winning against proper light big power AJPV8 Tuscans?
Now we are totally off subject - I always doubted the number that were bandied about in the late 90's / early 2000's on the Race bhp of the Factory engines - 450-460bhp. Is that just more TVR Factory Marketing to big up the series at the time? Ore is 420 more in the ball park?
In terms of the Sag', the main reasons for developing them (for me at least) was to help invigorate the Series a bit with up to date models running in the Championship & with a view to being able to race in other GT based Series too. The penalty for that, being a closed top etc, etc, is that it was always going to weigh more - substantially enhanced roll cage, bigger fuel cell, additional wing (you may not think it but a substantial structure rather than Halfords job), extra splitters, flat floor and so on. Add that all up and it's easy to see where an extra 70kg plus comes from. However, they are fantastic to drive, albeit different to the Tuscan to drive and enormous fun.
In answer to your question about the Sag v Full fat Tuscan, the best examples of this was Tim Hood v Darren Dowling where there was actually little to choose between them. We still believe though that there is more to come from the Sag's as little time & money has been available to invest in the set up and seeing what effect the aero is actually having. Of course, now a number of us are developing the Sag' with chevy engines, it will be different again!
I've heard through the grape vine that your thoughts about the race AJP8 are not far off the mark, ie, a lot of marketing but in reality not many putting out more than 430bhp tops and bear in mind that they weren't that well looked after from what I gather in the factiry run days and they'll be even more variances.
GlynnsportRacing said:
jellison said:
Why are these Sag things so heavy compared to a base Tuscan? adding the best part of 200kg with a different body shell!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Surely it is all pointless to add this much weight just to run some Halfords wings and splitters to get similar speeds.
Is the Sag thing Winning against proper light big power AJPV8 Tuscans?
Now we are totally off subject - I always doubted the number that were bandied about in the late 90's / early 2000's on the Race bhp of the Factory engines - 450-460bhp. Is that just more TVR Factory Marketing to big up the series at the time? Ore is 420 more in the ball park?
TBH I don't think there are many race Tuscans out there now(with full AJP8 etc)that weigh much less than 900kg, probably due to the usual repairs along the way, addition of aero with some and the fact that few drivers are going to the trouble of ensuring they use all the lightest weight parts these days. For example, the compomotive wheels that most of us use now are v good but quite heavy.Surely it is all pointless to add this much weight just to run some Halfords wings and splitters to get similar speeds.
Is the Sag thing Winning against proper light big power AJPV8 Tuscans?
Now we are totally off subject - I always doubted the number that were bandied about in the late 90's / early 2000's on the Race bhp of the Factory engines - 450-460bhp. Is that just more TVR Factory Marketing to big up the series at the time? Ore is 420 more in the ball park?
In terms of the Sag', the main reasons for developing them (for me at least) was to help invigorate the Series a bit with up to date models running in the Championship & with a view to being able to race in other GT based Series too. The penalty for that, being a closed top etc, etc, is that it was always going to weigh more - substantially enhanced roll cage, bigger fuel cell, additional wing (you may not think it but a substantial structure rather than Halfords job), extra splitters, flat floor and so on. Add that all up and it's easy to see where an extra 70kg plus comes from. However, they are fantastic to drive, albeit different to the Tuscan to drive and enormous fun.
In answer to your question about the Sag v Full fat Tuscan, the best examples of this was Tim Hood v Darren Dowling where there was actually little to choose between them. We still believe though that there is more to come from the Sag's as little time & money has been available to invest in the set up and seeing what effect the aero is actually having. Of course, now a number of us are developing the Sag' with chevy engines, it will be different again!
I've heard through the grape vine that your thoughts about the race AJP8 are not far off the mark, ie, a lot of marketing but in reality not many putting out more than 430bhp tops and bear in mind that they weren't that well looked after from what I gather in the factiry run days and they'll be even more variances.
What times do you do round a track that I can compare with a car like I want to build (Griff200, only 7 or maybe 8" 1B tyres and now slicks or wings) with a bit north of 400bhp and low 900kg. - Brands Indy?
jellison said:
Good post Steve.
What times do you do round a track that I can compare with a car like I want to build (Griff200, only 7 or maybe 8" 1B tyres and now slicks or wings) with a bit north of 400bhp and low 900kg. - Brands Indy?
The best guide I can give you is that in 2005, the poll qually time for the Tuscans was 48.9 secs on BHI. This was before any mods to the cars was done and they were running on the less sticky compound tyres that became the new reg's from '05 onwards and in '05 were the standard size (9" I think).What times do you do round a track that I can compare with a car like I want to build (Griff200, only 7 or maybe 8" 1B tyres and now slicks or wings) with a bit north of 400bhp and low 900kg. - Brands Indy?
Prior to that with the stickier compound tyre you could probably get 1.5 secs off that time. I believe the lap record there for Tuscans in the old days was in the mid 46 secs area, Andy H could probably tell us for sure.
You need to compare apples with apples.
The Sagaris is more aerodynamic, has a stiffer roll cage and can accomodate wider wheels. It has a lot more rear end grip than a Tuscan and is therefore kinder to its tyres. Tim's also had a sequential box. The downside is it weighs slightly more, mainly due to the additional roll cage bars. Mine came in at 905kg, about the same as a heavy Tuscan. Overall, I'd say that an AJP Sag is a fair bit quicker than a good Tuscan, but the extent of this will depend on the circuit.
When you refer to the Tim (Sagaris) v Darren (Tuscan) battles you need to remember a few things. Darren's Tuscan was running 10" rear wheels (albeit the extra inch was on the inside of the wheel not the outside), a Holinger sequential box, a substantial front splitter and a proper aerodynamically profiled rear wing, not a' Halfords add on'. It was the same rear wing used on the T400 GT cars and the Sagaris. It was therefore not entirely surprising that these two cars with these two drivers were quite evenly matched.
The Sagaris is more aerodynamic, has a stiffer roll cage and can accomodate wider wheels. It has a lot more rear end grip than a Tuscan and is therefore kinder to its tyres. Tim's also had a sequential box. The downside is it weighs slightly more, mainly due to the additional roll cage bars. Mine came in at 905kg, about the same as a heavy Tuscan. Overall, I'd say that an AJP Sag is a fair bit quicker than a good Tuscan, but the extent of this will depend on the circuit.
When you refer to the Tim (Sagaris) v Darren (Tuscan) battles you need to remember a few things. Darren's Tuscan was running 10" rear wheels (albeit the extra inch was on the inside of the wheel not the outside), a Holinger sequential box, a substantial front splitter and a proper aerodynamically profiled rear wing, not a' Halfords add on'. It was the same rear wing used on the T400 GT cars and the Sagaris. It was therefore not entirely surprising that these two cars with these two drivers were quite evenly matched.
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