Discussion
Rallying is not my discipline, I only do occasional 12-cars and scatters, but as I understand it if you stick to "navigational" rallies you can use pretty much anything, it's only "road" rallies where the four cylinder / no forced induction rules come in.
Whenever I look at Section H I find I still don't understand the purpose of H.106(d). It seems to say you can have DOHC engines provided you have fuel injection as well and it is unmodified from the standard for that engine (so DOHC+standard injection OK, DOHC with carbs banned). What is the rationale for that? Some kind of arcane way to ban the BDA engine?
Whenever I look at Section H I find I still don't understand the purpose of H.106(d). It seems to say you can have DOHC engines provided you have fuel injection as well and it is unmodified from the standard for that engine (so DOHC+standard injection OK, DOHC with carbs banned). What is the rationale for that? Some kind of arcane way to ban the BDA engine?
onomatopoeia said:
Whenever I look at Section H I find I still don't understand the purpose of H.106(d). It seems to say you can have DOHC engines provided you have fuel injection as well and it is unmodified from the standard for that engine (so DOHC+standard injection OK, DOHC with carbs banned). What is the rationale for that? Some kind of arcane way to ban the BDA engine?
I actually think that you might be right!I don't think that you can have twin chokes on twin carbs either, or something like that, so you couldn't use something like an Alfa Sud, even in the Historic sections of road rallies.
andy97 said:
onomatopoeia said:
Whenever I look at Section H I find I still don't understand the purpose of H.106(d). It seems to say you can have DOHC engines provided you have fuel injection as well and it is unmodified from the standard for that engine (so DOHC+standard injection OK, DOHC with carbs banned). What is the rationale for that? Some kind of arcane way to ban the BDA engine?
I actually think that you might be right!I don't think that you can have twin chokes on twin carbs either, or something like that, so you couldn't use something like an Alfa Sud, even in the Historic sections of road rallies.
Right...
I've done a lot of road rallies over the last 15 years.
It's similar-ish to stage rallying (which is what constitutes "rallying" to most people courtesy of TV coverage) but there are significant differences:
>>> Road rallies use at least some public roads competitively, whilst stage rallies are all on closed private land.
>>> Because of the public roads, road rallies are controlled by legislation to be slower. This is via: tighter timing (30mph average); more complicated navigation; difficult terrain which is why many events run in Wales / Yorkshire / Derbyshire etc.
>>> Road rallies run during darkness, for safety.
>>> For the sake of Public Relations, road rallies have to be low-key; eg not higher than NatB permit, no national championships, advertising and support crews are banned.
So... The concept of a road rally is that a set route must be completed by each competitior as close as possible to a published time schedule; the competitor that gets closest to it wins - easy! Competitors start the event at 1 minute intervals, and they all get the same route instructions and the same time schedule.
The route has marshals along the way; they record the time schedule of each competitor which allows their time-keeping to be judged. Often the marshals provide navigation instructions for the next part of the route as well - competitors don't necessarily know the whole route at the start.
I've probably made it sound boring but can assure you it isn't. Although events are 30mph average, the combination of terrain / complex navigation / stopping for a marshal every 2 miles means that 30mph is invariably flat out - ie as fast as you can possibly go without being a danger to yourself. And the schedule is intense; some sections can be an hour long and it becomes a serious challenge to not get more than 30 minutes behind your schedule - you're out if you do! It becomes a real test of teamwork for driver and navigator - who are equally important on road rallies. You need to be quick /accurate /level-headed to do well, and the top teams are very impressive!
The challenges are different for driver and navigator. Assuming you're a driver you need to be passionate for narrow lanes / bumpy tracks / darkness, and it helps if you have a bit of mechanical knowledge. You also need good self-restraint as there are some non-competitive parts on the route and you have to slow down!!!
Navigators need good map reading skills and a head for numbers and preferably no car-sickness.
I've probably made it sound hard now, but events do vary in difficulty! Don't do your first event in Wales, as they're hard-core over there. Instead join a local motor club and ask for guidance in selecting an easy event; '12 cars' are suitable and most clubs are friendly and encouraging.
Most of all though you'll enjoy it! It's very challenging but very rewarding, although you need a partner who who know you'll get on with under stress and a car that won't break.
It's also terrific value for money in terms of miles-per-pound.
I've done a lot of road rallies over the last 15 years.
It's similar-ish to stage rallying (which is what constitutes "rallying" to most people courtesy of TV coverage) but there are significant differences:
>>> Road rallies use at least some public roads competitively, whilst stage rallies are all on closed private land.
>>> Because of the public roads, road rallies are controlled by legislation to be slower. This is via: tighter timing (30mph average); more complicated navigation; difficult terrain which is why many events run in Wales / Yorkshire / Derbyshire etc.
>>> Road rallies run during darkness, for safety.
>>> For the sake of Public Relations, road rallies have to be low-key; eg not higher than NatB permit, no national championships, advertising and support crews are banned.
So... The concept of a road rally is that a set route must be completed by each competitior as close as possible to a published time schedule; the competitor that gets closest to it wins - easy! Competitors start the event at 1 minute intervals, and they all get the same route instructions and the same time schedule.
The route has marshals along the way; they record the time schedule of each competitor which allows their time-keeping to be judged. Often the marshals provide navigation instructions for the next part of the route as well - competitors don't necessarily know the whole route at the start.
I've probably made it sound boring but can assure you it isn't. Although events are 30mph average, the combination of terrain / complex navigation / stopping for a marshal every 2 miles means that 30mph is invariably flat out - ie as fast as you can possibly go without being a danger to yourself. And the schedule is intense; some sections can be an hour long and it becomes a serious challenge to not get more than 30 minutes behind your schedule - you're out if you do! It becomes a real test of teamwork for driver and navigator - who are equally important on road rallies. You need to be quick /accurate /level-headed to do well, and the top teams are very impressive!
The challenges are different for driver and navigator. Assuming you're a driver you need to be passionate for narrow lanes / bumpy tracks / darkness, and it helps if you have a bit of mechanical knowledge. You also need good self-restraint as there are some non-competitive parts on the route and you have to slow down!!!
Navigators need good map reading skills and a head for numbers and preferably no car-sickness.
I've probably made it sound hard now, but events do vary in difficulty! Don't do your first event in Wales, as they're hard-core over there. Instead join a local motor club and ask for guidance in selecting an easy event; '12 cars' are suitable and most clubs are friendly and encouraging.
Most of all though you'll enjoy it! It's very challenging but very rewarding, although you need a partner who who know you'll get on with under stress and a car that won't break.
It's also terrific value for money in terms of miles-per-pound.
Edited by robg2 on Tuesday 11th August 15:08
And from the other posts:
You can use any production derived car as long as it looks sensible (paint / interior) and passes a noise test. BUT:
4x4 and turbos are becoming outlawed
no more than 4 cylinders
you can't ADD: cams / carb chokes / injection / valves / forced induction
Most popular cars are old hot hatches due to low value / good performance / robustness. Don't use a car you can't afford to bend.
The regulations specify only very basic safety equipment (covered battey terminals, secure seats) although cage / seats / harnesses / extinguisher are sensible.
Road Rallies and Navigational Rallies are the same thing. 12 Cars are too (but they can't have more than 12 competitors, allowing some organisational effort to be by-passed).
Historic Rallies are basically the same too, although they normally include some autotests (mini-stages) on private land. You need a pre-81 car.
Road Rallies are typically £80 to enter, for which you get a whole night's entertainment. You need a National B license (£30ish) plus club membership (£20?) for each crew member and you might spend £75 on fuel+maps. And you can navigate at 14.
You can use any production derived car as long as it looks sensible (paint / interior) and passes a noise test. BUT:
4x4 and turbos are becoming outlawed
no more than 4 cylinders
you can't ADD: cams / carb chokes / injection / valves / forced induction
Most popular cars are old hot hatches due to low value / good performance / robustness. Don't use a car you can't afford to bend.
The regulations specify only very basic safety equipment (covered battey terminals, secure seats) although cage / seats / harnesses / extinguisher are sensible.
Road Rallies and Navigational Rallies are the same thing. 12 Cars are too (but they can't have more than 12 competitors, allowing some organisational effort to be by-passed).
Historic Rallies are basically the same too, although they normally include some autotests (mini-stages) on private land. You need a pre-81 car.
Road Rallies are typically £80 to enter, for which you get a whole night's entertainment. You need a National B license (£30ish) plus club membership (£20?) for each crew member and you might spend £75 on fuel+maps. And you can navigate at 14.
Thank you for all the feedback chaps 
It looks like my 205 will be a better plan than my 200sx... although I am trying to part with the 205 at the moment!
I think getting a basic car, making it as light as possible, and going from there, with somebody with local knowledge and good map skills will be the way forwards to start out!
Thanks again
Ben
It looks like my 205 will be a better plan than my 200sx... although I am trying to part with the 205 at the moment!
I think getting a basic car, making it as light as possible, and going from there, with somebody with local knowledge and good map skills will be the way forwards to start out!
Thanks again
Ben
Depending on where you are Jo I would look for details about Craven Motor Club or Sutton & Cheam. Both do stage rallies and I've done a Craven 12 car which was great fun due to their location - Berks/Surrey/Oxon.
I meant to add, check this out for the ultimate road rally www.2300club.org. It started as a road rally over 35 years ago and even now as a closed road stage rally two of the legs still run through the Friday 7 Saturday nights
I meant to add, check this out for the ultimate road rally www.2300club.org. It started as a road rally over 35 years ago and even now as a closed road stage rally two of the legs still run through the Friday 7 Saturday nights
Edited by Ranger 6 on Thursday 13th August 10:59
Regularity rallies are great fun and as mentioned above, bring teamwork into play.
For poeple who are new to Regularity Rallies, Classic Rally Tours run a series of weekend Rallies in Northern France which are ideal for newcomers. It is run to 1950's style regulations.
http://www.classicrallytours.com/ -- best viewed in IE
The organisers often allow 'interesting moderns' and many of today's top British teams learned their craft with Classic Rally Tours. Their next Rally is the Champagne Rally in October.
The final event of the year is The Beaujolais Rally in November. This rally usually attracts a big entry from Pre War car lovers. It is not a run to Beaujolais, but is so named as it coincides with the Beaujolais Nouveau. It is set in the lanes around Le Touquet / Montreuil.
For poeple who are new to Regularity Rallies, Classic Rally Tours run a series of weekend Rallies in Northern France which are ideal for newcomers. It is run to 1950's style regulations.
http://www.classicrallytours.com/ -- best viewed in IE
The organisers often allow 'interesting moderns' and many of today's top British teams learned their craft with Classic Rally Tours. Their next Rally is the Champagne Rally in October.
The final event of the year is The Beaujolais Rally in November. This rally usually attracts a big entry from Pre War car lovers. It is not a run to Beaujolais, but is so named as it coincides with the Beaujolais Nouveau. It is set in the lanes around Le Touquet / Montreuil.
I have been using various Triumphs on the road/navigation & classic scene in Northern & Southern Ireland for the last 20+ years and it is great fun. Unfortunately the idiot MSA have screwed this for England and Wales with their moronic stance on 6 cylinder engines, bumpers, different coloured bonnets etc. I know you can apply for a waver (for each item and event!) but this is just crap.
If you want to have some real fun why not come over to Ireland. You will be made very welcome!
If you want to have some real fun why not come over to Ireland. You will be made very welcome!
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