Titanium valves - How much HP ?
Discussion
gtrclive said:
Phil
I did a graph
<a href="http://image34.webshots.com/34/0/18/47/234101847XruZCR_fs.jpg">http://image34.webshots.com/34/0/18/47/234101847XruZCR_fs.jpg</a>
Maybe not ?? Need permision.... to enter link..
TRy http://community.webshots.com/photo/233850284/234101847XruZCR
US-GTR
Yep, the valves were the only thing I changed, they were previously stainless steel ..
Thats why I started this thread, 45bhp is a good gain for the money ... I did not expect it, and American Speed were surprised
We have had this discussion before, but the GTR is a light weight car, the G50 gearbox has short ratios and is on the margin for torque limits from an SBC, you need your engine to rev ..
I think the valve train gear probably is more important than we think and attention needs to be paid here ..
I did not compromise and asked for Jesel ....
G MAN
Yep, the valves were the only thing I changed, they were previously stainless steel ..
Thats why I started this thread, 45bhp is a good gain for the money ... I did not expect it, and American Speed were surprised
We have had this discussion before, but the GTR is a light weight car, the G50 gearbox has short ratios and is on the margin for torque limits from an SBC, you need your engine to rev ..
I think the valve train gear probably is more important than we think and attention needs to be paid here ..
I did not compromise and asked for Jesel ....
G MAN
Rev kits are very popular and keep the lifter in contact with the cam allowing normal springs for the valves. Is it possible to get beehive springs as used on the lsx? LS's have aggessive cam profiles and don't need a rev kit. So overall mass is reduced considerably. I'm not sure if they can be used on other chevy's though?
Boosted.
Boosted.
Must be one of the most cost effective upgrades available... how much did it cost if you don't mind me asking?
Can any engine be modded in this way? What are the potential problems that might materialise? Do they have a list of engines they've worked on with power gain figures?.. are you planning to be their agent?!!!
MC
Can any engine be modded in this way? What are the potential problems that might materialise? Do they have a list of engines they've worked on with power gain figures?.. are you planning to be their agent?!!!
MC
jschwartz said:
I'd like to see the correction factors on those tests. It's been mysteriously deleted from the TI chart.
Jeff
I think you and I discussed in emails this correction factor the last time it came up with Stigs engine. Looks strange to me like last time.
I emailed Gman to ask what the correction factor was the last time.
Phil
jamieheasman said:
You cannot possibly make a claim to a horsepower claim without doing a 'before' test! OK so they tested the engine before it was shipped to G-Man but that was 6,000miles ago!
I doubt very, very much if just replacing the valves with Titanium would account for 48bhp.
Jamie
With due respect you are wrong, the engine was producing the same power more or less when it was sent back for the Ti valves, I had the power checked for the 0-100-0 test, as it was the same for previous power test against a 640bhp dyno sheet. Now the engine might have been up or down a few bhp after 6000 miles and the 0-100-0 tests but not nearly 50bhp or 7%
I am very sceptical of power upgrades in general particually HP claims, well my engine is up 48bhp it did not have, most of this power came from Ti valves.
Finally if I build another engine would I spec Ti valves -Yes
G MAN
andygtt said:
I'd like to see the correction factors on those tests. It's been mysteriously deleted from the TI chart.
Deleted? it's on the dyno chart, 1.143... what is strange though that it varies so much as my engine from AS was only 1.073.
Just checked it out 1.122
G MAN
A correction factor change from 1.122 to 1.143 would give a +14 bhp on its own unless the temp, pressure or humidity markedly changed between sessions.
To look more closely at the factor we need to know the temperature, pressure and humidity for each of the dyno sessions.
I never figured why Stigs dyno showed a varying CF... At least this dyno sheet has a constant cf.
The graph falls off really quickly at the top end when I was expecting it to hold up due to better cam profile following (lighter gear better valve control) Looks like gain due to flow to me.
To look more closely at the factor we need to know the temperature, pressure and humidity for each of the dyno sessions.
I never figured why Stigs dyno showed a varying CF... At least this dyno sheet has a constant cf.
The graph falls off really quickly at the top end when I was expecting it to hold up due to better cam profile following (lighter gear better valve control) Looks like gain due to flow to me.
Boosted LS1 said:
I suggest the power has been gained partly from the lighter weight but I reckon the valve profile has been changed as well. It's about flow in my book. Can you ask what the valve shape is compared to what you had before. Tulip, penny on a stick, waisted stem or whatever.
Boosted.
Ok spoke to American speed for a LONG TIME, the valve shape is exactly the same as the steel ones, they have previously done a back to back test Ti v steel valves and had similar results to me ..
Seems it's a weight issue ... also they said Ti valve trains last long on the oval, less mass ,less wear
G MAN
i can see how the hp could increase because the overall mass is less in the valves so they don't require as much inertia, or momentum so they can open at the optimum timing rather than a slight delay afterwards because of the slightly greater pressure to open the valves, causing very little timing lag so to speak
G Man said:
I suggest the power has been gained partly from the lighter weight but I reckon the valve profile has been changed as well. It's about flow in my book. Can you ask what the valve shape is compared to what you had before. Tulip, penny on a stick, waisted stem or whatever.
Boosted.
Ok spoke to American speed for a LONG TIME, the valve shape is exactly the same as the steel ones, they have previously done a back to back test Ti v steel valves and had similar results to me ..
Seems it's a weight issue ... also they said Ti valve trains last long on the oval, less mass ,less wear
G MAN
Interesting stuff
but I reckon there's probably a bit more to it then that. Keep us posted though. Boosted.
Has anyone found info reporting high hp gains using Ti valves? Even on the Ti valve manufacturer sites I have looked at they dont mention performance gains - just reliability gains.
Seems that if they give this sort of performance increase they would promote it.
Edited to add that I'm with Jeff that the correction factor seems to very large for both these dyno runs. Lets have the full test condition temp, humidity, pressure, altitude etc that give rise to these correction factors.
>> Edited by canam-phil on Tuesday 21st December 08:52
Seems that if they give this sort of performance increase they would promote it.
Edited to add that I'm with Jeff that the correction factor seems to very large for both these dyno runs. Lets have the full test condition temp, humidity, pressure, altitude etc that give rise to these correction factors.
>> Edited by canam-phil on Tuesday 21st December 08:52
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