My cars development
Discussion
Yeah that's the one.
Since replying here I have seen this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=504...
I have to agree, I think AS use the wrong correction figures when they dyno and their 720hp engine actually makes 603hp.
I'm not too phased if the engine "Only" makes 600hp if it does the 1/4 mile in 9.9, just want to make sure it's not massively down on power compared to other GTR720's and from my research in the last hour it seems most of them make 480-490hp at the treads.
Since replying here I have seen this thread http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=504...
I have to agree, I think AS use the wrong correction figures when they dyno and their 720hp engine actually makes 603hp.
I'm not too phased if the engine "Only" makes 600hp if it does the 1/4 mile in 9.9, just want to make sure it's not massively down on power compared to other GTR720's and from my research in the last hour it seems most of them make 480-490hp at the treads.
Edited by CL GTR on Tuesday 8th March 06:31
chuntington101 said:
I think the MSD will be MUCH better in the mid range than the above! There have been loads of tests carried out and unless you are revving over 7k these short runner setups really don't add anything other than weight!
Chris for me is not correct: see at http://www.hotrod.com/features/1507-20-ls1-intake-...
mid range is equal but edelbrock is better cheap
CL GTR said:
Will be good to see what it pulls.
Are you ever going to take it to the strip?
Probably one day, yes. But I am building this car to smash out times are Philip Island.Are you ever going to take it to the strip?
845ste said:
Chris for me is not correct: see at http://www.hotrod.com/features/1507-20-ls1-intake-...
mid range is equal but edelbrock is better cheap
Open these two images in two tabs in your browsermid range is equal but edelbrock is better cheap
1. MSD: http://image.hotrod.com/f/133164278+w660+h495+cr1/...
2. Edelbrock: http://image.hotrod.com/f/133164110+w660+h495+cr1/...
Use your mouse and click between the two tabs to see the difference.
For a street car, the MSD is my choice. Consistently out performs the Edelbrock, and a lot more midrange power and torque over all.
And that's on a 6L, I am sure the difference will be even bigger on a 427ci.
yes i saw, but MSD It has more torque at approximately 5300 rpm (approximately +30 nm), but is not constant from 4100 to 7000, instead Edelbrock has the maximum nm at 4900 , but at the same rpm is more constant, then in the street is more drivable.
MSD comes with the power always about 200rpm before Edel, but 7000 is the same.
then I believe that MSD is least drivable on the street, more scorbutic, because the torque is not constant and indeed has continuous nm peaks from 4100 to 5400.
edel costs less than half ....
de gustibus
MSD comes with the power always about 200rpm before Edel, but 7000 is the same.
then I believe that MSD is least drivable on the street, more scorbutic, because the torque is not constant and indeed has continuous nm peaks from 4100 to 5400.
edel costs less than half ....
de gustibus
Rev limiter set to 7400rpm. Would have gone to 7600rpm, but no point with power dropping off.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8JCyGTTYBA
That's three runs over the top of themselves. Second run has 2 degrees pulled out of it, third run had another degree pulled out of it. Very consistent, I'm happy.
Interesting that my engine is down on "dyno power" like the AS engine in Tasmania. I don't actually care how much power my car makes, if the AS engines rwkw dyno at 366 (as mentioned above) and I'm putting down 357, it's as good as a GTR720 to me as that's the engine they've got in that.
Now to lay down some lap times at Philip Island in two weeks time.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8JCyGTTYBA
That's three runs over the top of themselves. Second run has 2 degrees pulled out of it, third run had another degree pulled out of it. Very consistent, I'm happy.
Interesting that my engine is down on "dyno power" like the AS engine in Tasmania. I don't actually care how much power my car makes, if the AS engines rwkw dyno at 366 (as mentioned above) and I'm putting down 357, it's as good as a GTR720 to me as that's the engine they've got in that.
Now to lay down some lap times at Philip Island in two weeks time.
Edited by AlexCim on Tuesday 22 March 05:56
Yes - that's right.
Engine dyno figures follow an SAE procedure. I think it's hard to compare power figures if all cars are not on the same dyno. Plus, when you consider all different gearboxes, diffs, wheel spin, etc - hard to say anyway.
Really, I need to get on the same dyno as that other car from Tasmania to do a direct comparison.
Engine dyno figures follow an SAE procedure. I think it's hard to compare power figures if all cars are not on the same dyno. Plus, when you consider all different gearboxes, diffs, wheel spin, etc - hard to say anyway.
Really, I need to get on the same dyno as that other car from Tasmania to do a direct comparison.
something strange about that graph
12.8 to 1 air fuel ratio on full throttle? im not used to FI dyno graphs but on carbs WOT is 10.5 to 1
the power curve looks too linear, where is the torque graph please
what exhaust have you got... is it restricting power..cats?? are they blocked?
HP should be alot more than that out of LS7
12.8 to 1 air fuel ratio on full throttle? im not used to FI dyno graphs but on carbs WOT is 10.5 to 1
the power curve looks too linear, where is the torque graph please
what exhaust have you got... is it restricting power..cats?? are they blocked?
HP should be alot more than that out of LS7
Well, power is a calculated value from torque - so I don't think a torque graph would show anything useful really.
I have the Ultima LS7 exhaust - headers, pipes and mufflers. See the first pictures. Car is not FI, it's N/A.
After I left, he flattened out that fuel wave a bit. My research indicates that most LS7's are tuned for around 12.5 A/F. But it's about just giving the engine what it wants. The guy tuning it used to be lead mechanic for a Holden racing team and just tunes LS engines these days. His brief was "I am going to pump out lap after lap on a track" - so he went from there.
I have the Ultima LS7 exhaust - headers, pipes and mufflers. See the first pictures. Car is not FI, it's N/A.
After I left, he flattened out that fuel wave a bit. My research indicates that most LS7's are tuned for around 12.5 A/F. But it's about just giving the engine what it wants. The guy tuning it used to be lead mechanic for a Holden racing team and just tunes LS engines these days. His brief was "I am going to pump out lap after lap on a track" - so he went from there.
It's good to confirm that AS are probably not telling fibs because that would be a major rort. It seems that there is just a large power loss with the way Ultima's are set up.
I used to have a 996 911 Turbo and I was on the track at Sydney motorsport park with a 343awkw R34 GTR and a 355awkw Nissan GTR which had the exact same mods as my 911 Turbo - Changed exhaust and ECU tune except mine made only 286awkw (low dyno power may have something to do with Porsche gearboxes) on Croydon Racing Developments dyno. I caught up to the R34 GTR one session coming onto the main straight then walked past him and in another session I went out leading the GTR and we were within a few car lengths the whole session and down the straight we were line ball all the way to 235km/h. Ever since then I've not really cared too much about what anyone says when it comes to a dyno figure. You have an absolute weapon of a car, enjoy
I used to have a 996 911 Turbo and I was on the track at Sydney motorsport park with a 343awkw R34 GTR and a 355awkw Nissan GTR which had the exact same mods as my 911 Turbo - Changed exhaust and ECU tune except mine made only 286awkw (low dyno power may have something to do with Porsche gearboxes) on Croydon Racing Developments dyno. I caught up to the R34 GTR one session coming onto the main straight then walked past him and in another session I went out leading the GTR and we were within a few car lengths the whole session and down the straight we were line ball all the way to 235km/h. Ever since then I've not really cared too much about what anyone says when it comes to a dyno figure. You have an absolute weapon of a car, enjoy
Edited by CL GTR on Thursday 24th March 05:11
Look, it's almost impossible to tell anything unless things are compared exactly side by side.
To be honest, my car doesn't feel any faster or slower, but it's hard to tell on the road (because it's so fast and this isn't Germany). And last time I went to the track, I had road tyres, and a crappy fuel system. But I am not one to feel "difference" unless it's something big like a turbo change etc.
So I am going to track again in 3 weeks, so we will see what it lays down.
Then I'll go to strip in a few weeks after that and see what it does.
To be honest, my car doesn't feel any faster or slower, but it's hard to tell on the road (because it's so fast and this isn't Germany). And last time I went to the track, I had road tyres, and a crappy fuel system. But I am not one to feel "difference" unless it's something big like a turbo change etc.
So I am going to track again in 3 weeks, so we will see what it lays down.
Then I'll go to strip in a few weeks after that and see what it does.
Alex, you sound exactly like me. When I had the cam done, it sounded different, felt different, but the car didn't feel any faster on the road. It was a bit crazy before, and a bit crazy after, but I wasn't blown away by a performance increase (possibly because the initial mapping was done by a clown) but even after it was sorted, it didn't really feel quicker. Sounded great though 
.
So I bought a vbox to see what the actual performance is - that puts aside any BS a dodgy rolling road operator can give you and show you the raw numbers - useful especially when modding or mapping because you can see exactly where any improvements or losses are made.
I'm not really fussed by 0-60, it's almost irrelevant in quick cars, but 60-100, or 1/4 terminal shows more what it's capable of.
LS7, katech cam, Rev limit safely at 6800, standard intake and good airbox, 2" headers (ooh shock, apparently these are "rubbish" for performance, according to one "specialist"), g50-00 - 1/4 terminal just over 140, 60-100 in 2.7 seconds.
I don't really care how much power it's got, that's quick enough for me.
Interestingly, when mapping, the 60-100 time started off at 3.1 seconds, until it was tweaked and we got down to 2.7. I felt it was quicker at 3.1 than 2.7, go figure.
I think a lot of people get caught up in chasing power figures, when the reality is, even with a simple cam change in an ls7, an Ultima is a crazily quick car.
.So I bought a vbox to see what the actual performance is - that puts aside any BS a dodgy rolling road operator can give you and show you the raw numbers - useful especially when modding or mapping because you can see exactly where any improvements or losses are made.
I'm not really fussed by 0-60, it's almost irrelevant in quick cars, but 60-100, or 1/4 terminal shows more what it's capable of.
LS7, katech cam, Rev limit safely at 6800, standard intake and good airbox, 2" headers (ooh shock, apparently these are "rubbish" for performance, according to one "specialist"), g50-00 - 1/4 terminal just over 140, 60-100 in 2.7 seconds.
I don't really care how much power it's got, that's quick enough for me.
Interestingly, when mapping, the 60-100 time started off at 3.1 seconds, until it was tweaked and we got down to 2.7. I felt it was quicker at 3.1 than 2.7, go figure.
I think a lot of people get caught up in chasing power figures, when the reality is, even with a simple cam change in an ls7, an Ultima is a crazily quick car.
The horsepower drop is about right. The one I put in my E46 M3 was engine dynoed at 750hp and made 518rwhp in the car. Just finishing off a new engine for the Ultima just 440ci instead of 427ci other than that all the same specs and it will probably make the same sort of power with more torque.
And Alex I decided that a dual fuel tank idea was a joke when I first built my car. Welded some -20 fittings on the tank to have a big link pipe between the two tanks for balancing so you can go to the petrol station and fill up from either side and it will balance as quick as you fill it. Also put in a 5 litre surge tank to get the fuel capacity up a bit more and use an external Walbro 255 pulling from both tanks to fill the surge tank and a Peirburg 800 to supply the engine. 044's are just too noisey.
You can see the -20 at the lowest point on the firewall
You can see the -20 at the lowest point on the firewall
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