Ugly GTR Copy.
Discussion
How can you not like the GTR? 
Driving one will surely change your opinion! Get into the throttle and the corners with one and you'll be more concerned with cleaning your shorts! 
Living in the states, I greatly appreciate the lack of a rear window. With all of the SUV's and trucks on the road, I don't have to worry about annoying headlights blinding me from behind at night
Seriously, when I first looked at the Ultima 5 years ago I couldn't help but say, "What the F@(! is that????
" No other car has had this same impact on me since(Saleen, Mosler, Ferrari, Mac, Lambo, Zonda...their all too civilized 
). Not to mention, more importantly, you can't build one! After I slaved hundreds of hours building my car, and got a chance to finally drive it...man...then I knew I would have my grandchildren bury me in it 
You have to build a car with blood, sweat, and tears, to appreciate it to this level! The other half of the battle is convincing your wife that its a worthwhile endeavor 
-Mack
Driving one will surely change your opinion! Get into the throttle and the corners with one and you'll be more concerned with cleaning your shorts! Living in the states, I greatly appreciate the lack of a rear window. With all of the SUV's and trucks on the road, I don't have to worry about annoying headlights blinding me from behind at night
Seriously, when I first looked at the Ultima 5 years ago I couldn't help but say, "What the F@(! is that????
" No other car has had this same impact on me since(Saleen, Mosler, Ferrari, Mac, Lambo, Zonda...their all too civilized ). Not to mention, more importantly, you can't build one! After I slaved hundreds of hours building my car, and got a chance to finally drive it...man...then I knew I would have my grandchildren bury me in it You have to build a car with blood, sweat, and tears, to appreciate it to this level! The other half of the battle is convincing your wife that its a worthwhile endeavor -Mack
cartwright said: Ultimajohn: I'm serious. I tried hard to like the GTR but it's not going to happen.
mkoch1: I prefer the canam as well and I think it's because the roof and deck lid of the GTR makes the car look like it's leaning back. Also, no rear view is not pleasant. I know that the teardrop shape plus the high mirrors compensate for this but I still don't like the way it looks.
Well that's a surprise !! I've done over 2000 miles in the old girl now, and everybody I MEAN EVERYBODY, that coments on the car, weather they be old, young, English, American, Canadian, French, German, owners of Ferrari's, Porsche's, Tvr's they all say what is it at first, then after I tell them it's an Ultima, that looks fantastic, gorgus, lovly etc etc.!!!!. 
The GTR is the perfect car for me. I will never be able to drive it to it's true limit, It has enough luggage space for a Contiental trip, It has the ability to beat 99.9% of all road car's (There's always somebody with more money out there), The CAN-AM is also a lovly shape but I'm a tin top man, and a Induction vent is meant to be Forced feed, not a means of heating your neck when you stop at the Light's.
PS Seems to have struck a Cord this String !!!
The GTR is the perfect car for me. I will never be able to drive it to it's true limit, It has enough luggage space for a Contiental trip, It has the ability to beat 99.9% of all road car's (There's always somebody with more money out there), The CAN-AM is also a lovly shape but I'm a tin top man, and a Induction vent is meant to be Forced feed, not a means of heating your neck when you stop at the Light's.
PS Seems to have struck a Cord this String !!!
I'm not sure where you got that, but that's not what it says at all. 
It said that this time, somebody from outside of Mosler approached him and offered to design the body of the car for him. He accepted because most everybody said that the predecessors of this model, the Consulier, Intruder, and Raptor, were hidiously ugly--yes, even far uglier than that Canadian job. I, too, live in the US and remember those cars and this article when it was originally printed, and they were eyesores. It also says that Mosler doesn't seem to care much about his cars' looks (supposedly to the point of not even recognizing the difference between attractive and ugly designs), only function.
As for which cars are good looking, and which are not, I don't particularly care that much. Frankly, I'm amazed at how much 
ing talk of aesthetics goes on here at PistonHeads. I find it hard to believe that true enthusiasts will spend so much time discussing something that adds nothing to the driving experience and is purely a matter of personal taste. I have to agree with L. J. K. Setright who said that he didn't care about what a car looked like because he couldn't see it from the driver's seat. 
Personally, I think that the Lawrence seems very promising. I read everything in the site, and he seems to be approaching the design of the car from the driver's point of view. He talks of proper suspension design, light weight, etc. If all goes well, it may be a great driver's car, regardless of how ugly it is.
I consider today's mainstream cars too heavy and boring to drive--in many cases, even some fast, good handling, and otherwise capable cars--since they're directed at the mainstream car buyers, i.e. non car people. Isn't that why most of you are building Ultimas? Sure, it looks impressive, but I'd like to think that there's a whole lot more to an Ultima than impressing the Joneses. Actually, I know that there is, as does McLaren.
In the US, practically our only choice away from the mainstream is kit cars, which is why I'd like to build an Ultima some day. And I think that the CanAm is better looking than the GTR, but I'd go with the GTR to keep the Florida sun from hitting me directly.
It said that this time, somebody from outside of Mosler approached him and offered to design the body of the car for him. He accepted because most everybody said that the predecessors of this model, the Consulier, Intruder, and Raptor, were hidiously ugly--yes, even far uglier than that Canadian job. I, too, live in the US and remember those cars and this article when it was originally printed, and they were eyesores. It also says that Mosler doesn't seem to care much about his cars' looks (supposedly to the point of not even recognizing the difference between attractive and ugly designs), only function. As for which cars are good looking, and which are not, I don't particularly care that much. Frankly, I'm amazed at how much ing talk of aesthetics goes on here at PistonHeads. I find it hard to believe that true enthusiasts will spend so much time discussing something that adds nothing to the driving experience and is purely a matter of personal taste. I have to agree with L. J. K. Setright who said that he didn't care about what a car looked like because he couldn't see it from the driver's seat. Personally, I think that the Lawrence seems very promising. I read everything in the site, and he seems to be approaching the design of the car from the driver's point of view. He talks of proper suspension design, light weight, etc. If all goes well, it may be a great driver's car, regardless of how ugly it is.
I consider today's mainstream cars too heavy and boring to drive--in many cases, even some fast, good handling, and otherwise capable cars--since they're directed at the mainstream car buyers, i.e. non car people. Isn't that why most of you are building Ultimas? Sure, it looks impressive, but I'd like to think that there's a whole lot more to an Ultima than impressing the Joneses. Actually, I know that there is, as does McLaren.
In the US, practically our only choice away from the mainstream is kit cars, which is why I'd like to build an Ultima some day. And I think that the CanAm is better looking than the GTR, but I'd go with the GTR to keep the Florida sun from hitting me directly.
PiB said:
I'm reading the a Car and Driver article on the Mosler 900 and apparently the creater knows the car is ugly. Heres the horrendous link.
snip
In reference to how a car looks...
I think most car enthusiasts enjoy all aspects of a car equally; the acceleration, the braking, the high G cornering...it all plays a role in the feeling an enthusiast gets from driving. The appearance of the car with all its aerodynamic curves, air intakes, and downforce producing wings all contribute to the visual cues that give the enthusiast a sense of power that the car possesses, it's all an experience. I wonder what Battista Farina would say about this.
And, form can certainly follow function and still be beautiful, just look at women, or do you not care what they look like either?
Miguel said:I find it hard to believe that true enthusiasts will spend so much time discussing something that adds nothing to the driving experience and is purely a matter of personal taste.
I think most car enthusiasts enjoy all aspects of a car equally; the acceleration, the braking, the high G cornering...it all plays a role in the feeling an enthusiast gets from driving. The appearance of the car with all its aerodynamic curves, air intakes, and downforce producing wings all contribute to the visual cues that give the enthusiast a sense of power that the car possesses, it's all an experience. I wonder what Battista Farina would say about this.
And, form can certainly follow function and still be beautiful, just look at women, or do you not care what they look like either?
I suppose I should rephrase my statement. "I" think the GTR is ugly and many Americans that I have shown it to have the same unprovoked reaction.
usagtrman: The BMW 7 series is what it is but not comparable to the GTR in any way shape or form. You could compare it to the Z series cars I suppose.
PiB: I read the article but believe Mosler is talking about the previous split windshield cars, not that MT900. The author seems to attribute some of the blandness of the body on the software that was used - something about light continuity theory. Anyway, it's clear that the car's designer loves corvettes. I would bet that the next model will depart further from its heritage, especially now that the S7 is out.
GTRCLIVE: I know favorable reactions exist. I still think the GTR is a nice car. Most things low and shiny are nice but I guess I have different taste. Also, few Porsche's and Ferraris look nice to me...
Miquel: I am admittedly an aesthetic design enthusiast and not too much more. That is why I talk about aesthetics. Also, I agree with your assessment of every day cars. They are way too generic and out of touch with the road. That is why I'm interested in the Ultima... but not to impress the Joneses at all. I'd prefer not to garner any attention from what I drive.
usagtrman: The BMW 7 series is what it is but not comparable to the GTR in any way shape or form. You could compare it to the Z series cars I suppose.
PiB: I read the article but believe Mosler is talking about the previous split windshield cars, not that MT900. The author seems to attribute some of the blandness of the body on the software that was used - something about light continuity theory. Anyway, it's clear that the car's designer loves corvettes. I would bet that the next model will depart further from its heritage, especially now that the S7 is out.
GTRCLIVE: I know favorable reactions exist. I still think the GTR is a nice car. Most things low and shiny are nice but I guess I have different taste. Also, few Porsche's and Ferraris look nice to me...
Miquel: I am admittedly an aesthetic design enthusiast and not too much more. That is why I talk about aesthetics. Also, I agree with your assessment of every day cars. They are way too generic and out of touch with the road. That is why I'm interested in the Ultima... but not to impress the Joneses at all. I'd prefer not to garner any attention from what I drive.
BTW the new issue of Grassroots Motorsports (don't know if it's available in the UK) just came in and has an article on the Mosler. I think someone asked what transmission it uses. According to the article as well as the Mosler ad on the back cover, it can have a Porsche 6 speed or a Hewland 6 speed sequential.
What I've figured out is that, to me, what a car does (how quickly it accelerates and brakes, how fast it can go around a curve) is no more important--actually far less--than how it does it (responsiveness, feel and directness of the controls, i.e. subjective stuff). Otherwise, a 3400 lb Viper, a TVR, and a Caterham would all be the same. Clearly there is a world of difference. To me, looks just aren't part of the driving experience, whereas feel is everything.
I think that you're most probably right. I guess I'm an exception. Sure, I appreciate a good looking design--good looking to me, anyway. I just don't consider it a must; more like a bonus.
Oh, come on, now. He designed car bodies for a living. For all we know, he may not even have liked to drive. Yes, and the Pininfarina designed Peugeot 504 sedan was truly a work of art. 
LOL Actually, in cars, looks are nothing to me--far less than to most car guys. With women, OTOH, looks are everything to me.
cartwright: The most apt descrption of the blandness of today's cars came from a quote of an article on the Caterham Seven, which was printed in their brochure, and may be on their website as well. The writer referred to mainstream modern cars as "sanitized plastic cocoons."
paradigm said: I think most car enthusiasts enjoy all aspects of a car equally; the acceleration, the braking, the high G cornering...it all plays a role in the feeling an enthusiast gets from driving.
What I've figured out is that, to me, what a car does (how quickly it accelerates and brakes, how fast it can go around a curve) is no more important--actually far less--than how it does it (responsiveness, feel and directness of the controls, i.e. subjective stuff). Otherwise, a 3400 lb Viper, a TVR, and a Caterham would all be the same. Clearly there is a world of difference. To me, looks just aren't part of the driving experience, whereas feel is everything.
The appearance of the car with all its aerodynamic curves, air intakes, and downforce producing wings all contribute to the visual cues that give the enthusiast a sense of power that the car possesses, it's all an experience.
I think that you're most probably right. I guess I'm an exception. Sure, I appreciate a good looking design--good looking to me, anyway. I just don't consider it a must; more like a bonus.
I wonder what Battista Farina would say about this.
Oh, come on, now. He designed car bodies for a living. For all we know, he may not even have liked to drive.
Yes, and the Pininfarina designed Peugeot 504 sedan was truly a work of art.
And, form can certainly follow function and still be beautiful, just look at women, or do you not care what they look like either?
LOL Actually, in cars, looks are nothing to me--far less than to most car guys. With women, OTOH, looks are everything to me.
cartwright: The most apt descrption of the blandness of today's cars came from a quote of an article on the Caterham Seven, which was printed in their brochure, and may be on their website as well. The writer referred to mainstream modern cars as "sanitized plastic cocoons."
cartwright said: I suppose I should rephrase my statement. "I" think the GTR is ugly and many Americans that I have shown it to have the same unprovoked reaction.
Funny, every American that looks at my car drops dead in their tracks. I have to hit the wipers to knock the drool off my windshield. The U.S. magazines all gave it excellent reviews, and my local Porsche club has been hounding me to get the car to the track every month. They absolutely love the looks...of course they all liken it to a Porsche 956.
I grew up in love with the "Group C" era of cars. This may account for my difference in opinion. Of course I am also biased and love my Ultima Sports most of all (with pylon mounted wing)! Maybe your friends are more into the recent "rice-burner/Jap Racer" trend of todays American youth? Todays sports cars look very "Japanese."
-Mack
bigmac: I guess I should say that I'm also not a racer at all. I'm going to guess that racer types tend to like the GTR more than street only types. Also I'm not in the street racing group either(I hate the term ricer).
Don't get me wrong. The GTR is incredible. Overall, I just don't like the way it looks. Also, the people I've shown it to are average people, not car enthusiasts. I had my doubts about the looks so I asked several people. Actually I don't care what others think but I felt I was tricking myself inot believing it was good looking. But I've since come to my senses and will not get a GTR. I still have issues with the Canam unfortunately...
Don't get me wrong. The GTR is incredible. Overall, I just don't like the way it looks. Also, the people I've shown it to are average people, not car enthusiasts. I had my doubts about the looks so I asked several people. Actually I don't care what others think but I felt I was tricking myself inot believing it was good looking. But I've since come to my senses and will not get a GTR. I still have issues with the Canam unfortunately...
afortier said: I agree, GTR is pretty ugly. Can-am was a big step forward.
>> Edited by afortier on Wednesday 30th October 13:37
Errr.... so let's consider the list of differences between the two designs:
1. The height of the rear deck and no roof.
2. errr....
How can you not like the GTR? It's gorgeous!!!!
On the looks over driving pleasure, I had a GT40 before the GTR. The GT40 looks had the same appeal, as the GTR but It was an early Replica, and didn't have the replica Suspension so was a real dog round bends, and the brakes where not the best.
Even still I loved it, and was a straight line car, that had the looks. The best thing I had owned up to that point.
So Looks are definatly up there in the reasons why I buy a car.
Maybe the only exception to my rule would be the Metro 6R4, not pritty (Wife hates it!) but has the History/Pedigree and in your face presence I love.
Ps I ment no Insult to the MT900, just airing my views over the stiling. Just not my Cup Of Tea.
Even still I loved it, and was a straight line car, that had the looks. The best thing I had owned up to that point.
So Looks are definatly up there in the reasons why I buy a car.
Maybe the only exception to my rule would be the Metro 6R4, not pritty (Wife hates it!) but has the History/Pedigree and in your face presence I love.
Ps I ment no Insult to the MT900, just airing my views over the stiling. Just not my Cup Of Tea.
paradigm said:
Well I love America but they have trouble Designing nice car shapes. Perhaps they should have employed an Italian to Design the body.
Carbon Fibre Body, Moly tubing but still Ugly!!
www.mt900.com
I Wonder what gearbox is on the road going version ?
Cerca $150,000
If you want a truly ugly American exotic...
It's massive intakes are way over done and could seemingly suck small children right off the sidewalk.
As for the MT900 gearbox, it's a Porsche ZF six-speed.
Edited to say the car pictured is a Vector M12 for those wondering.
>> Edited by paradigm on Tuesday 29th October 20:46
Hi Paradigm, If I'm not mistaken this Vector was originaly designed by a German. He was a Ford or GM employe who got told not to turn up to work in his Ferrari all the time. To spit them he Built his own car I think it was Called the Vector V2 ( Maybe W2 ), it had a 32Valve Twin turbo V8 based on a Chevy, and a ridiculous top speed 240 ish, if my memory is right. Then agian I've been proved wrong in the past.
So I think the American's can not be held responsable for that one.
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Thursday 31st October 13:19
>> Edited by GTRCLIVE on Thursday 31st October 13:20
cartwright said:
usagtrman: The BMW 7 series is what it is but not comparable to the GTR in any way shape or form. You could compare it to the Z series cars I suppose.
Cartwright: What I said was that everyone has different taste. The point was that the GTR is ugly to you and the 7 series is ugly to me....I think I realize they're not comparible auto's although apparently they both have controversial looks. I also an am American, an average car guy and think the GTR looks great as has everyone I have shown it to. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.....period!
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff