LS6 engine in an Ultima
Discussion
All this talk about the small and big block just gave me a bit of a heart flutter. I am intalling a twin turbo V6 for many reasons, and I naturally thought that it would fit into the CAN AM. I am yet to place my order (currently moving house, new one has a workshop), and need some dimensions checking.
Does anyone know if the VG30DETT out of a 300ZX, will fit into the CAN AM? If not can anyone give me the dimensions of their donk that fits in the space? I know the mounts match, but hieght is my biggest concern.
Does anyone know if the VG30DETT out of a 300ZX, will fit into the CAN AM? If not can anyone give me the dimensions of their donk that fits in the space? I know the mounts match, but hieght is my biggest concern.
imagine: You're very welcome. I didn't think that finding Ultima owners in California would be easy, but maybe the Ultima factory can hook you up. Another possibility would be to find owners of other kit cars in California. Even though it won't give you any Ultima specific info, at least you'll have some general knowledge of what's involved as far as emissions go, cats, exhaust, engine choice, etc. Good luck.
Sven: Thanks for the info. Using a Porsche starter is an interesting solution.
I also think that if the LS1 engine is that much easier to install in an Ultima than an LS6, there's always the option to use an LS1 and upgrade it later, especially in North America, where there's no shortage of Chevy tuners, such as Lingenfelter, Agostino Racing (Canada), Callaway, Doug Rippie, and many, many others.
DieselDave: I saw your post in another thread where you also mentioned that you wanted to use a 300 ZX Turbo engine in an Ultima and mentioned weight savings compared to an LS1. Any idea how much it weighs? I only ask because, according to what I've read, even the current all aluminum Nissan V6 is no lightweight, and the ZX's has an iron block.
I also wanted to clarify something here. I've seen mention of big blocks and carbureted engines when the LS6 was suggested. Don't confuse the 1970-71 LS6 (454cid, 7.4l big block) with the current 2001-03 LS6, a Gen 3 small block used in the Z06 Corvette. It's a more powerful, current all aluminum, fuel injected engine used exclusively in the Z06 version of the Corvette. 385 hp, 385 ft-lb in 01 and 405 hp, 400 ft-lb in 02-03. It redlines at 6500 rather than 6000 for the LS1. It's a hotter version of the LS1.
Sven: Thanks for the info. Using a Porsche starter is an interesting solution.
I also think that if the LS1 engine is that much easier to install in an Ultima than an LS6, there's always the option to use an LS1 and upgrade it later, especially in North America, where there's no shortage of Chevy tuners, such as Lingenfelter, Agostino Racing (Canada), Callaway, Doug Rippie, and many, many others.
DieselDave: I saw your post in another thread where you also mentioned that you wanted to use a 300 ZX Turbo engine in an Ultima and mentioned weight savings compared to an LS1. Any idea how much it weighs? I only ask because, according to what I've read, even the current all aluminum Nissan V6 is no lightweight, and the ZX's has an iron block.
I also wanted to clarify something here. I've seen mention of big blocks and carbureted engines when the LS6 was suggested. Don't confuse the 1970-71 LS6 (454cid, 7.4l big block) with the current 2001-03 LS6, a Gen 3 small block used in the Z06 Corvette. It's a more powerful, current all aluminum, fuel injected engine used exclusively in the Z06 version of the Corvette. 385 hp, 385 ft-lb in 01 and 405 hp, 400 ft-lb in 02-03. It redlines at 6500 rather than 6000 for the LS1. It's a hotter version of the LS1.
www.ultimacars.com/home_page_fra.htm
This is a company in California that builds Ultima's with Corvette engines, contact them, they should be able to answer all your questions
This is a company in California that builds Ultima's with Corvette engines, contact them, they should be able to answer all your questions
I think that operation is no longer in existance being taken over by the factory. Two different people have tried to make a go of the US side of things and failed for one reason or another.
imagine said: RSchley - thanks, I've tried this route - the contact us page seems to just send mail to the UK folks. Anyone have a phone number or additional info on the US operation?
At the present time there is no one building Ultima's in the US except us private builders. Read my previous posts for LS1/LS6 info. The car will pass California emissions if you install all emission related stuff with the engine. They guys in Australia also install this combination.
Forgive my ignorance to the subject, but I believe I once saw someone suggest using a Porsche flat 6 in an Ultima. I don't remember what the responses were (if any) but have also wondered why this option isn't tried more often.
Why use a Nissan V6 if the Porsche gear box is the box of choice, wouldn't using a Porsche engine make things easier?
Couldn't you save weight if you chose an air cooled version by eliminating the radiator?
With a flat configuration as opposed to a V6 or inline 6 wouldn't it fit easier into a CanAm where engine height is a concern, not to mention lowering the CG?
I'm a huge Porsche (and turbocharged engines in general) fan and would love to see a way to make this work.
Why use a Nissan V6 if the Porsche gear box is the box of choice, wouldn't using a Porsche engine make things easier?
Couldn't you save weight if you chose an air cooled version by eliminating the radiator?
With a flat configuration as opposed to a V6 or inline 6 wouldn't it fit easier into a CanAm where engine height is a concern, not to mention lowering the CG?
I'm a huge Porsche (and turbocharged engines in general) fan and would love to see a way to make this work.
paradigm said: Forgive my ignorance to the subject, but I believe I once saw someone suggest using a Porsche flat 6 in an Ultima. I don't remember what the responses were (if any) but have also wondered why this option isn't tried more often.
Why use a Nissan V6 if the Porsche gear box is the box of choice, wouldn't using a Porsche engine make things easier?
Couldn't you save weight if you chose an air cooled version by eliminating the radiator?
With a flat configuration as opposed to a V6 or inline 6 wouldn't it fit easier into a CanAm where engine height is a concern, not to mention lowering the CG?
I'm a huge Porsche (and turbocharged engines in general) fan and would love to see a way to make this work.
I suspect the gearbox would be the wrong way around as we turn the box upside down to get it to go the right way, probably not possible with the porsche engine.
Back in about 1996 on a visit to the factory, I saw a couple of the Ultima mechanics installing a flat 6 Porsche engine into (I think) a Sports. It was destined for an overseas customer but that's all I can recall. I am fairly certain that it was a second hand turbo engine and a rather scruffy one at that. How successful the implant was, I don't know but the factory should know.
In my last email to the factory I asked them
"Do you guys make header for the LS1 or LS6 engine? If not do you know anyone that does?"
Their response
"We only recommend and fit the engines from American Speed and therefore only sell the parts associated to this engine."
It looks like a private company will have to step up and start making them.
"Do you guys make header for the LS1 or LS6 engine? If not do you know anyone that does?"
Their response
"We only recommend and fit the engines from American Speed and therefore only sell the parts associated to this engine."
It looks like a private company will have to step up and start making them.
ultimaandy said: I suspect the gearbox would be the wrong way around as we turn the box upside down to get it to go the right way, probably not possible with the porsche engine.
Sure it's possible. It's been done many times in 914 conversions. I don't know the specifics of the shifter mechanism, but the correct direction is maintained by reversing the position of the ring and pinion.
A few years ago I actually spoke to Mike Mullen (previous owner of www.ultimacars.com/) and he indeed had an LS1 powered GTR that was road legal in CA (he was telling me about how he drives the ultima down the San Diego and turns a lot of heads). I recall him saying that he had to make adjustments to his gas tank (I assume make them pressurised). I regret not keeping his contact number, but this was over 2 years ago that I spoke to him. If I come up with any new info, I will certainly keep the forum informed. Good Luck!
I suspect the gearbox would be the wrong way around as we turn the box upside down to get it to go the right way, probably not possible with the porsche engine.
Hi Andy
The gearbox can be mounted corectly just by reversing the diff this mod is done on the G50/52 box
i also sugested this to the factory to change that for the Ultima but i recieved no reply on that
alfasteve said: Hi Andy. The gearbox can be mounted corectly just by reversing the diff this mod is done on the G50/52 box i also sugested this to the factory to change that for the Ultima but i recieved no reply on that
Wait a minute. So, you're saying that the diff is not reversed in the Ultima? I thought that it had to be in any mid-engined application of a Porsche 911 transaxle. So how did Ultima do it and maintain proper direction of the car? By positioning the tranny upside down?
Hi Miquel
The factory is doing by mounting the box upside down
but it can also be done by reversing the diff
you have to open the dif and turn it that means the crown wheel will be driven to the opposite dirextion
the company Rennauto does these mods
i sugested this to ted from the factory but he did not reply
Miguel said:
alfasteve said: Hi Andy. The gearbox can be mounted corectly just by reversing the diff this mod is done on the G50/52 box i also sugested this to the factory to change that for the Ultima but i recieved no reply on that
Wait a minute. So, you're saying that the diff is not reversed in the Ultima? I thought that it had to be in any mid-engined application of a Porsche 911 transaxle. So how did Ultima do it and maintain proper direction of the car? By positioning the tranny upside down?
Hi Miquel
That is what i find weird too because the box is decined to be used in a certain position to get good
Lubrication
and now you just turn that upside down
please find the story from the guys at rennsportsystems
www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/
brgds
steve
Miguel said: Thanks for the info, Steve. So the box is mounted upside down. Weird. If, instead, you reverse the diff and mount the box right side up, can you get a better shifter linkage?
Busa said: My understanding is that on the standard Porsche box the input shaft comes in above the driveshaft output flanges.
Mounting the box upside down (input- below output-) allows you to lower the engine by 4 inches (roughly?).
That's a significant benefit to the CoG.
Not entirely true, the tranny could go the other way around without grounding on my car, it would also reduce the angle of the drive shafts to horizontal and lower the whole gearbox by over 6inches ........except the chasis is in the way and thus it must go upside down to fit at all.
Hi Andy
Do you think it will be technicaly possible to modify the Chassis in order to be able to run the Box the way it was descined
how much inches should the chassis move to accomodate the box
Not entirely true, the tranny could go the other way around without grounding on my car, it would also reduce the angle of the drive shafts to horizontal and lower the whole gearbox by over 6inches ........except the chasis is in the way and thus it must go upside down to fit at all.
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