How Many More Must Die?
Discussion
Ultimas that is.
For those who can afford an Ultima, you must possess a certain level of intelligence in order to attain the necessary funds, but upon reading a lot of posts here about how much power I have, or how much power I need, I have to surmize that in a lot of cases, the writer is lacking in some form of manhood size, and is attempting to make up for it with horsepower.
Before I have both my feet firmly planted on the soap box let me inject two points.
First, I probably have more track time than the average driver. My wife has advised me that any more trophies are going to the shop as the trophy area is full at home.
And I'm sure you've heard the story about a famous pro sports car driver who was allowed to take a modern DE-TUNED Formula One car on the track, and he couldn't keep the car on the track. What does this tell you?
I'm writing this in response to Tuckshops tragic experience.
When a car with the potential of the Ultima breaks loose, it is so quick, and at usually a high speed. Only the most experienced of drivers has any chance of making a recovery, and not usually in the confines of a busy street.
In the flying world here in North America, the highest rate of fatal crashes happens to doctors, who with their higher intelligence feel that being current in flying hours does not apply to them despite the fact that they don't have much time to fly because of their busy schedules. A lot of these doctors are dead wrong.
It's not only high power that gets away from you that causes accidents, but sloppy, or missed shifts will throw you off the road just as quickly.
We also have a situation here where it's becoming more difficult to get a Cobra insured because of the high percentage of accidents with these cars. I'm not expecting any problem with my CanAM in a few months because of the rarity of the marque in this county, but I can see where it will be, or already is a problem in the U.K.
I'm proud of Big Mack for his comments where he stated that basically, his "lower" powered car has more than he needs, or can use.
As for those owners who say that they need the power for the track, I say bull. You're only going out there driving, not racing, and 1 or 2 seconds slower means nothing at all, and is not going to lower the value of your car. If you're out there in "trading paint" racing, that's a different story, and your car will probably never be on the street.
To you Walter Mittys out there. A lower powered Ultima still has more potential than 99.9% of the other cars on the road, and will still give the owner the respect the car attains. His engine will be more dependable, the gearbox will last longer, fuel costs will be lower, and he'll be able to enjoy the car more because something will not always be breaking.
I won my class championship in 2001 with the Cobra. This comprised of 8 events at 5 different tracks. I was not always the fastest, or the highest powered, but I was the most consistent finisher by concentrating more on light weight and handling and reliability.
To sum up, I'm sure more Ultimas have been damaged or destroyed than what has been mentioned on this site.
The car will be just as big a phallic symbol with a few hundred horsepower less, but will have less chance to bite you. You drivers who have track time know how fast a car can get away from you. Make sure you pass this on to the novice. You have to relay how helpless you feel when the car is tailfirst on it's merry own way and you're just a passenger with both feet in.
Having said all this, my original engine that I was building was going to be 425 hp, but with all the goodies we added, the computer figures 600 plus. But we will drive it detuned at first,... at least the first few hundred miles.
Happy Holidays
Jack
RosenRacing
For those who can afford an Ultima, you must possess a certain level of intelligence in order to attain the necessary funds, but upon reading a lot of posts here about how much power I have, or how much power I need, I have to surmize that in a lot of cases, the writer is lacking in some form of manhood size, and is attempting to make up for it with horsepower.
Before I have both my feet firmly planted on the soap box let me inject two points.
First, I probably have more track time than the average driver. My wife has advised me that any more trophies are going to the shop as the trophy area is full at home.
And I'm sure you've heard the story about a famous pro sports car driver who was allowed to take a modern DE-TUNED Formula One car on the track, and he couldn't keep the car on the track. What does this tell you?
I'm writing this in response to Tuckshops tragic experience.
When a car with the potential of the Ultima breaks loose, it is so quick, and at usually a high speed. Only the most experienced of drivers has any chance of making a recovery, and not usually in the confines of a busy street.
In the flying world here in North America, the highest rate of fatal crashes happens to doctors, who with their higher intelligence feel that being current in flying hours does not apply to them despite the fact that they don't have much time to fly because of their busy schedules. A lot of these doctors are dead wrong.
It's not only high power that gets away from you that causes accidents, but sloppy, or missed shifts will throw you off the road just as quickly.
We also have a situation here where it's becoming more difficult to get a Cobra insured because of the high percentage of accidents with these cars. I'm not expecting any problem with my CanAM in a few months because of the rarity of the marque in this county, but I can see where it will be, or already is a problem in the U.K.
I'm proud of Big Mack for his comments where he stated that basically, his "lower" powered car has more than he needs, or can use.
As for those owners who say that they need the power for the track, I say bull. You're only going out there driving, not racing, and 1 or 2 seconds slower means nothing at all, and is not going to lower the value of your car. If you're out there in "trading paint" racing, that's a different story, and your car will probably never be on the street.
To you Walter Mittys out there. A lower powered Ultima still has more potential than 99.9% of the other cars on the road, and will still give the owner the respect the car attains. His engine will be more dependable, the gearbox will last longer, fuel costs will be lower, and he'll be able to enjoy the car more because something will not always be breaking.
I won my class championship in 2001 with the Cobra. This comprised of 8 events at 5 different tracks. I was not always the fastest, or the highest powered, but I was the most consistent finisher by concentrating more on light weight and handling and reliability.
To sum up, I'm sure more Ultimas have been damaged or destroyed than what has been mentioned on this site.
The car will be just as big a phallic symbol with a few hundred horsepower less, but will have less chance to bite you. You drivers who have track time know how fast a car can get away from you. Make sure you pass this on to the novice. You have to relay how helpless you feel when the car is tailfirst on it's merry own way and you're just a passenger with both feet in.
Having said all this, my original engine that I was building was going to be 425 hp, but with all the goodies we added, the computer figures 600 plus. But we will drive it detuned at first,... at least the first few hundred miles.
Happy Holidays
Jack
RosenRacing
Blimey, I'll chopped up your post in order to reply. I was going to delete it as it's pretty inflammatory, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.
First the title - I didn't realise any had?
Ultimas that is.
For those who can afford an Ultima, you must possess a certain level of intelligence in order to attain the necessary funds, but upon reading a lot of posts here about how much power I have, or how much power I need, I have to surmize that in a lot of cases, the writer is lacking in some form of manhood size, and is attempting to make up for it with horsepower.
Well, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion seeing as (I'm guessing) you know none of the contributors personally.
Before I have both my feet firmly planted on the soap box let me inject two points.
Too late
First, I probably have more track time than the average driver. My wife has advised me that any more trophies are going to the shop as the trophy area is full at home.
My, you're a modest chap aren't you - who's the one beating his chest now? Are you lacking in the manhood department or something I wonder?
And I'm sure you've heard the story about a famous pro sports car driver who was allowed to take a modern DE-TUNED Formula One car on the track, and he couldn't keep the car on the track. What does this tell you?
Not a lot. Using Alan McNish as another example, he made the transition from 'Sports' to Formula 1 and did pretty well I thought. Certainly well enough to keep pace (and beat) his teammate who had plenty of F1 experience.
I'm writing this in response to Tuckshops tragic experience.
When a car with the potential of the Ultima breaks loose, it is so quick, and at usually a high speed. Only the most experienced of drivers has any chance of making a recovery, and not usually in the confines of a busy street.
Sure. However, as I'm sure Tuckshop will agree, he wasn't what you'd call an 'experienced' driver. You're right that these cars take a fair degree of skill to control at speed, but just because your Ultima 'can' do 200mph doesn't mean that you'll drive it that way. The same is also true of any reasonably powered rear wheel drive car (in the case of Tuckshops unfortunate accident). A 320i BMW in the wrong hands on a greasy road could have ended up exactly the same way.
In the flying world here in North America, the highest rate of fatal crashes happens to doctors, who with their higher intelligence feel that being current in flying hours does not apply to them despite the fact that they don't have much time to fly because of their busy schedules. A lot of these doctors are dead wrong.
I see... I thought we were talking about driving high performance cars?
It's not only high power that gets away from you that causes accidents, but sloppy, or missed shifts will throw you off the road just as quickly.
Of course, or lift-off oversteer, being distracted by some fit blonde walking down the street or a million other reasons none related to how much power you've got.
We also have a situation here where it's becoming more difficult to get a Cobra insured because of the high percentage of accidents with these cars.
Same goes for TVR and many other marques here in the UK. So what of it? We have a bigger problem with 17 year olds continously writing off their 1.0 litre Nova's - is it power that gets them into trouble?
I'm not expecting any problem with my CanAM in a few months because of the rarity of the marque in this county, but I can see where it will be, or already is a problem in the U.K.
Of course, they'll probably take your vast trophy collection into account when quoting your premium too.
I'm proud of Big Mack for his comments where he stated that basically, his "lower" powered car has more than he needs, or can use.
Which is fine. Did any of us decry him for saying so, or for that matter anyone who has an engine in a lower state of tune? No. So why post here saying that those of us who have chosen higher output units are in some way lacking in manhood? That's just insulting.
As for those owners who say that they need the power for the track, I say bull. You're only going out there driving, not racing, and 1 or 2 seconds slower means nothing at all, and is not going to lower the value of your car.
You obviously don't know much about selling cars then. If you think a stock 350 engined Ultima will command the same price as a 500+ bhp motor then you're living in la-la land. Any of the reviews that a prospective buyer in the UK reads quotes power outputs in excess of 500bhp so that's what they expect. There's nothing wrong with having a stock 350 in an Ultima and it will indeed outpace most things on the road. But if you want, and can put in something else - then why not?
If you're out there in "trading paint" racing, that's a different story, and your car will probably never be on the street.
Right - your point being?
To you Walter Mittys out there. A lower powered Ultima still has more potential than 99.9% of the other cars on the road, and will still give the owner the respect the car attains. His engine will be more dependable, the gearbox will last longer, fuel costs will be lower, and he'll be able to enjoy the car more because something will not always be breaking.
Which is fine, no problem. But for those who want to put in something else - what of it? It's their choice and it's not your place to say that it's wrong or to insult them publicly.
I won my class championship in 2001 with the Cobra. This comprised of 8 events at 5 different tracks. I was not always the fastest, or the highest powered, but I was the most consistent finisher by concentrating more on light weight and handling and reliability.
Well done. But I bet you still had a half decent engine in it. If you hadn't noticed, in the main, we're building road cars for occasional track use - not race cars. I've built 2 of these from scratch too so don't start preaching about what makes a championship winner. We already know.
To sum up, I'm sure more Ultimas have been damaged or destroyed than what has been mentioned on this site.
And that represents a fraction of the number of Volkswagens/BMW's/Vauxhalls/Toyotas/Porsches/Ferraris that also get destroyed.
The car will be just as big a phallic symbol with a few hundred horsepower less, but will have less chance to bite you. You drivers who have track time know how fast a car can get away from you. Make sure you pass this on to the novice. You have to relay how helpless you feel when the car is tailfirst on it's merry own way and you're just a passenger with both feet in.
Indeed. But it's up to the individual to decide how much power they are comfortable with and not to dictate to others what they should have. I guess with all this logical debate, you've gone for something around 200bhp?
Having said all this, my original engine that I was building was going to be 425 hp, but with all the goodies we added, the computer figures 600 plus. But we will drive it detuned at first,... at least the first few hundred miles.
Ah - maybe not then.
What a great conclusion. So according to your logic (para 1) you're hung like a sparrow
Happy Holidays
Jack
RosenRacing
We call it Christmas
Stig
Bitza Racing
First the title - I didn't realise any had?
Ultimas that is.
For those who can afford an Ultima, you must possess a certain level of intelligence in order to attain the necessary funds, but upon reading a lot of posts here about how much power I have, or how much power I need, I have to surmize that in a lot of cases, the writer is lacking in some form of manhood size, and is attempting to make up for it with horsepower.
Well, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion seeing as (I'm guessing) you know none of the contributors personally.
Before I have both my feet firmly planted on the soap box let me inject two points.
Too late
First, I probably have more track time than the average driver. My wife has advised me that any more trophies are going to the shop as the trophy area is full at home.
My, you're a modest chap aren't you - who's the one beating his chest now? Are you lacking in the manhood department or something I wonder?
And I'm sure you've heard the story about a famous pro sports car driver who was allowed to take a modern DE-TUNED Formula One car on the track, and he couldn't keep the car on the track. What does this tell you?
Not a lot. Using Alan McNish as another example, he made the transition from 'Sports' to Formula 1 and did pretty well I thought. Certainly well enough to keep pace (and beat) his teammate who had plenty of F1 experience.
I'm writing this in response to Tuckshops tragic experience.
When a car with the potential of the Ultima breaks loose, it is so quick, and at usually a high speed. Only the most experienced of drivers has any chance of making a recovery, and not usually in the confines of a busy street.
Sure. However, as I'm sure Tuckshop will agree, he wasn't what you'd call an 'experienced' driver. You're right that these cars take a fair degree of skill to control at speed, but just because your Ultima 'can' do 200mph doesn't mean that you'll drive it that way. The same is also true of any reasonably powered rear wheel drive car (in the case of Tuckshops unfortunate accident). A 320i BMW in the wrong hands on a greasy road could have ended up exactly the same way.
In the flying world here in North America, the highest rate of fatal crashes happens to doctors, who with their higher intelligence feel that being current in flying hours does not apply to them despite the fact that they don't have much time to fly because of their busy schedules. A lot of these doctors are dead wrong.
I see... I thought we were talking about driving high performance cars?
It's not only high power that gets away from you that causes accidents, but sloppy, or missed shifts will throw you off the road just as quickly.
Of course, or lift-off oversteer, being distracted by some fit blonde walking down the street or a million other reasons none related to how much power you've got.
We also have a situation here where it's becoming more difficult to get a Cobra insured because of the high percentage of accidents with these cars.
Same goes for TVR and many other marques here in the UK. So what of it? We have a bigger problem with 17 year olds continously writing off their 1.0 litre Nova's - is it power that gets them into trouble?
I'm not expecting any problem with my CanAM in a few months because of the rarity of the marque in this county, but I can see where it will be, or already is a problem in the U.K.
Of course, they'll probably take your vast trophy collection into account when quoting your premium too.
I'm proud of Big Mack for his comments where he stated that basically, his "lower" powered car has more than he needs, or can use.
Which is fine. Did any of us decry him for saying so, or for that matter anyone who has an engine in a lower state of tune? No. So why post here saying that those of us who have chosen higher output units are in some way lacking in manhood? That's just insulting.
As for those owners who say that they need the power for the track, I say bull. You're only going out there driving, not racing, and 1 or 2 seconds slower means nothing at all, and is not going to lower the value of your car.
You obviously don't know much about selling cars then. If you think a stock 350 engined Ultima will command the same price as a 500+ bhp motor then you're living in la-la land. Any of the reviews that a prospective buyer in the UK reads quotes power outputs in excess of 500bhp so that's what they expect. There's nothing wrong with having a stock 350 in an Ultima and it will indeed outpace most things on the road. But if you want, and can put in something else - then why not?
If you're out there in "trading paint" racing, that's a different story, and your car will probably never be on the street.
Right - your point being?
To you Walter Mittys out there. A lower powered Ultima still has more potential than 99.9% of the other cars on the road, and will still give the owner the respect the car attains. His engine will be more dependable, the gearbox will last longer, fuel costs will be lower, and he'll be able to enjoy the car more because something will not always be breaking.
Which is fine, no problem. But for those who want to put in something else - what of it? It's their choice and it's not your place to say that it's wrong or to insult them publicly.
I won my class championship in 2001 with the Cobra. This comprised of 8 events at 5 different tracks. I was not always the fastest, or the highest powered, but I was the most consistent finisher by concentrating more on light weight and handling and reliability.
Well done. But I bet you still had a half decent engine in it. If you hadn't noticed, in the main, we're building road cars for occasional track use - not race cars. I've built 2 of these from scratch too so don't start preaching about what makes a championship winner. We already know.
To sum up, I'm sure more Ultimas have been damaged or destroyed than what has been mentioned on this site.
And that represents a fraction of the number of Volkswagens/BMW's/Vauxhalls/Toyotas/Porsches/Ferraris that also get destroyed.
The car will be just as big a phallic symbol with a few hundred horsepower less, but will have less chance to bite you. You drivers who have track time know how fast a car can get away from you. Make sure you pass this on to the novice. You have to relay how helpless you feel when the car is tailfirst on it's merry own way and you're just a passenger with both feet in.
Indeed. But it's up to the individual to decide how much power they are comfortable with and not to dictate to others what they should have. I guess with all this logical debate, you've gone for something around 200bhp?
Having said all this, my original engine that I was building was going to be 425 hp, but with all the goodies we added, the computer figures 600 plus. But we will drive it detuned at first,... at least the first few hundred miles.
Ah - maybe not then.
What a great conclusion. So according to your logic (para 1) you're hung like a sparrow
Happy Holidays
Jack
RosenRacing
We call it Christmas
Stig
Bitza Racing
OooooKaaayyy
Some of us here have plenty of track experience thankyou, mine was 8 years in 250 Kart National gearboxed, four years in Slick 50 Touring cars and a few more formulas like Historic F2000. So i think i can vouch for some others here who I KNOW still and do regularly race these little treasures of AFFORDABLE GTR's, i for one cannot afford a Merc CLK GTR.
My own oppinion is that, yes less HP = a somewhat more sedate ride, but even with a *cough* measely 300HP and a shit load of grunty torque you will soon get out of shape....so your point being ??
Most of us who have embarked on this Ultima trip of self discovery are doing this for fun, i intend to race mine in formulas like the old slick 50, where the rules state it has to be driven to and from the track, if not then i will be hill climbing (against old F1 and Indy cars sometimes) and track days. The point of my engine is to get 500+ BHP for your every day jolly around the countryside and to and from track, add a little more boost and we are in *race trim*. If i was to be an arse (which i usually am not) we could sit here all day and trade "my dicks bigger than yours" shit.
To sum it up, I for one want a car that can and will take on a F1 Mclaren, i want a reliable car, but most of all i want some fun in the next year in which it will take to complete my baby and i dont want to part with a cool 1/2 a million to do it.
Tuckshops incedent was a sad occasion and i feel for him, those of us fortunate enough to have been in powerfull RWD cars know the dangers, it is a shame that he learnt the hard way (as i did in the early 80's)
It is very presumputous to assume the quality of others driving skills, Above all, it is the attitude of *it cant happen to me cause i know it all* that catches the most drivers, i for one do not consider myself to be the best driver of exotic machinery and i hope that will be my saving grace. *To learn* is why we are here on this planet any one who thinks they know it all WILL DIE...haha
Some of us here have plenty of track experience thankyou, mine was 8 years in 250 Kart National gearboxed, four years in Slick 50 Touring cars and a few more formulas like Historic F2000. So i think i can vouch for some others here who I KNOW still and do regularly race these little treasures of AFFORDABLE GTR's, i for one cannot afford a Merc CLK GTR.
My own oppinion is that, yes less HP = a somewhat more sedate ride, but even with a *cough* measely 300HP and a shit load of grunty torque you will soon get out of shape....so your point being ??
Most of us who have embarked on this Ultima trip of self discovery are doing this for fun, i intend to race mine in formulas like the old slick 50, where the rules state it has to be driven to and from the track, if not then i will be hill climbing (against old F1 and Indy cars sometimes) and track days. The point of my engine is to get 500+ BHP for your every day jolly around the countryside and to and from track, add a little more boost and we are in *race trim*. If i was to be an arse (which i usually am not) we could sit here all day and trade "my dicks bigger than yours" shit.
To sum it up, I for one want a car that can and will take on a F1 Mclaren, i want a reliable car, but most of all i want some fun in the next year in which it will take to complete my baby and i dont want to part with a cool 1/2 a million to do it.
Tuckshops incedent was a sad occasion and i feel for him, those of us fortunate enough to have been in powerfull RWD cars know the dangers, it is a shame that he learnt the hard way (as i did in the early 80's)
It is very presumputous to assume the quality of others driving skills, Above all, it is the attitude of *it cant happen to me cause i know it all* that catches the most drivers, i for one do not consider myself to be the best driver of exotic machinery and i hope that will be my saving grace. *To learn* is why we are here on this planet any one who thinks they know it all WILL DIE...haha
Lets not get out of context here.
I have an Ultima because my other car had reached the end of its natural progression i.e. as fast as I could make it.
The car in question has over 350bhp through the rear wheels on 215 tyres and even though it handles well, being front engined its inclined to be tail happy especially in the wet.
I've had this car with this power for 8 years (my wife was 21 and I was 23 when I got it) and both myself and my wife have used it every day for our only means of transport all year round, I also have 4 kids who all go in this car. I have used this car hard but have never had an accident on the road in it.
However I suffer extremelly stupid insurance premiums for this car because other people can't even handle the 205bhp that the car is endowed with in standard form.
I'm not a die hard racing driver and am not as good a driver as others clearly think they are, but I am relativelly safe as is my wife (who definatelly can't drive fast safely!), we may have an accident and it will be just that an ACCIDENT.
I wanted more...in fact I wanted the Ultimate, which is why I went for a 500+Bhp engine in my Ultima.
These are supposed to be fun cars, no-one has died, in fact some people may be a bit wiser, lets end on that positive note!
I have an Ultima because my other car had reached the end of its natural progression i.e. as fast as I could make it.
The car in question has over 350bhp through the rear wheels on 215 tyres and even though it handles well, being front engined its inclined to be tail happy especially in the wet.
I've had this car with this power for 8 years (my wife was 21 and I was 23 when I got it) and both myself and my wife have used it every day for our only means of transport all year round, I also have 4 kids who all go in this car. I have used this car hard but have never had an accident on the road in it.
However I suffer extremelly stupid insurance premiums for this car because other people can't even handle the 205bhp that the car is endowed with in standard form.
I'm not a die hard racing driver and am not as good a driver as others clearly think they are, but I am relativelly safe as is my wife (who definatelly can't drive fast safely!), we may have an accident and it will be just that an ACCIDENT.
I wanted more...in fact I wanted the Ultimate, which is why I went for a 500+Bhp engine in my Ultima.
These are supposed to be fun cars, no-one has died, in fact some people may be a bit wiser, lets end on that positive note!
Blimey - some serious essays here.
An other point to note (and there can't be many left) is that people buy these cars to build and keep. I am relatively young - well, under 30 anyway - and intend to start along the path next year. If I follow the advice and go 350bhp (which incidently, Ted Marlow still sees as 'adequate'), then it would be great for a few years. Then however, I am stuck with a car that was built as a dream and at great expense, which is not all that it can be.
As Stig said, 500bhp+ is now the norm and while everybody is free to make their own choices, I'm afraid that I'd feel that I was missing something if I had paid full price and only got half the power.
May consider traction control though :hidesundercoat: as a way of limiting the power output on the road / in the wet etc.
An other point to note (and there can't be many left) is that people buy these cars to build and keep. I am relatively young - well, under 30 anyway - and intend to start along the path next year. If I follow the advice and go 350bhp (which incidently, Ted Marlow still sees as 'adequate'), then it would be great for a few years. Then however, I am stuck with a car that was built as a dream and at great expense, which is not all that it can be.
As Stig said, 500bhp+ is now the norm and while everybody is free to make their own choices, I'm afraid that I'd feel that I was missing something if I had paid full price and only got half the power.
May consider traction control though :hidesundercoat: as a way of limiting the power output on the road / in the wet etc.
Wow, real fireworks. For the record I don't have a house full of shiny things to remind me of how big a driver I am. I have only been driving for twenty years and will be using the two core skills which I have to stop me from "doing a teflon". These are: twenty years of driving experience and common sense. What happened to tuckshop was very unfortunate, but I think it is wrong to use his accident as a warning to others, because his case was quite unique. As I recall another thread he informed us that he doesn't drive, so therefore he is not comparable to any of us. As Stig correctly points out the statistics for Ultima accidents are extremely low as the vehicle production numbers are minimal.
This is exactly the sort of bad posting that could potentially damage the Ultima reputation. The old saying engage brain before opening mouth springs to mind.
tuckshop said: James,
For someone who does't drive (and didn't know anything about cars for that matter), putting an Ultima together seems like a fantastic, if not impossible adventure.
All I need to get now is a large green 'L' plate.
This is exactly the sort of bad posting that could potentially damage the Ultima reputation. The old saying engage brain before opening mouth springs to mind.
Hillarious!
He claims Ultima's kill people after a spin where no one is hurt. Says ultima owners have weeny weeners. Claims Ultima's don't need high power engines.
But it turns out he is building an ultima and ...wait for it.... with a 600bhp engine.
HaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaaaa
Excellent!
He claims Ultima's kill people after a spin where no one is hurt. Says ultima owners have weeny weeners. Claims Ultima's don't need high power engines.
But it turns out he is building an ultima and ...wait for it.... with a 600bhp engine.
HaaaaaHaaaaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaaaHaaaaaaa
Excellent!
Well, to insert my two cents, as far as I know, there have been only two accidents in Ultima's... One being truckshops, and the other being a racing Ultima that went off a hill, and the driver walked away from a *Destroyed* Car. Now, I for one am not even to stage 1 in my build, you might say I am on stage 0... saving my penny's (In the USA); more to the point, I don't think it is right of you (USCANAM) to basically go around and say that anyone short of a racecar driver shouldn't have an Ultima. During my build (hopefully I get to build it) I plan on taking a few driving classes seeing that my experience with very powerfull rear wheel drive vehicles is practically non-existing.
Honestly, until you know everyones plans for their Ultima's and how everyone built/bought theirs and what they will use it for and with how much power they will have, You have NO right going around and accusing others of trying to compensate their manlyhood with horsepower. I agree with stig, you are the one that sounds like they have the lack of manlyhood.
Honestly, until you know everyones plans for their Ultima's and how everyone built/bought theirs and what they will use it for and with how much power they will have, You have NO right going around and accusing others of trying to compensate their manlyhood with horsepower. I agree with stig, you are the one that sounds like they have the lack of manlyhood.
I am simply dumbfounded by the initial post here... not quite sure what the point of the essay was. In comparison, congratulations Stig on providing me with a stitch from all that laughing...
... I will now take my manhood (and the rest of my body) for a spin (hopefully not literally) in my S... or should I take the Escort? hmm... that might be safer... (apparently)
>> Edited by Podie on Wednesday 4th December 10:31
... I will now take my manhood (and the rest of my body) for a spin (hopefully not literally) in my S... or should I take the Escort? hmm... that might be safer... (apparently)
>> Edited by Podie on Wednesday 4th December 10:31
I know of 4 front ends being badly damaged, and 5 cars being destroyed.
One car caught fire, one was written off by a potential buyer, one was the racer mentioned earlier, the fourth hit a tree and the last one was Tuckshop.
No lives were lost, and these are only the ones I have heard of in the last year and half that I have been intereted in Ultima's. I expect the factory know the real scoreline.
Imagine what it would be like if we were building a Bike with the kind of additional performance we enjoy over the average car.
Oh and do you really think that being a race driver makes you a safe driver, I bet you couldn't afford Micheal Schumaker's insurance premiums.
I can see it now
Insurance Co:- "what profession are you in"
Micheal :- "I'm a racing driver"
Insurance Co:- "That's an extra 200% please!"
Like I've said before I don't claim to be any kind of expert driver but I happen to think my Ultima (and I have driven others) is extremelly controlable and in fact I think it's flattering.
One car caught fire, one was written off by a potential buyer, one was the racer mentioned earlier, the fourth hit a tree and the last one was Tuckshop.
No lives were lost, and these are only the ones I have heard of in the last year and half that I have been intereted in Ultima's. I expect the factory know the real scoreline.
Imagine what it would be like if we were building a Bike with the kind of additional performance we enjoy over the average car.
Oh and do you really think that being a race driver makes you a safe driver, I bet you couldn't afford Micheal Schumaker's insurance premiums.
I can see it now
Insurance Co:- "what profession are you in"
Micheal :- "I'm a racing driver"
Insurance Co:- "That's an extra 200% please!"
Like I've said before I don't claim to be any kind of expert driver but I happen to think my Ultima (and I have driven others) is extremelly controlable and in fact I think it's flattering.
At the end of the day, I quite agree that an Ultima is an awesome car and 350bhp is enough. In fact, it may be a sweeter, more easily driveable and expolitable car on the road.
But if someone wants to put 500bhp or 1700bhp in it, then let them. Yes, it will be tricky to drive and it may be dangerous in the hands of less experienced drivers, but accidents can happen to any driver at any time, so there is no room for any kind of compacency. In any kind of car, from any kind of driver. The number of polacs (polic accidents not polish people) show that even the best drivers have events conspire against them... spilt diesel... drunk drivers doing silly things etc.
I have driven fast cars fast, and occasionally overstepped the mark. I am not proud of this, but I will still buy powerful cars and drive them to their limits and beyond... just out of harms way, on test tracks, from now on. Important lesson learnt.
When I was younger I used to think I could catch a slide anytime, anywhere. And I could 8 times out of 10, but then 9 was a fishtailer and 10 was into a ditch. So what I have learnt is that no matter how good a driver (or not) I am, the time to put things to the test is in controlled, safe(r) conditions. 8 out of 10, or 99 out of 100 simply isn't good enough with other cars around.
Now power output doesn't have to be some kind of ego trip, it can make a car trickier to drive, but then maybe that's the challenge. If I want an easy-to-drive rear wheel car I'd get an E46 BMW 3 series with ASC and the like. Very tricky to spin in the wet, with electronic nannying going on.
Powerful cars present a greater challenge, and human beings crave challenge and excitement. An inexperienced driver may crave these as much as a racing driver, so let them. Many will realise that the time and place to do so is on a test track, and that 8/10ths in the dry is enough on a public street. But when or if they do get it wrong, they may just be unlucky.
I think Tuckshop could be an extremely fine driver one day, and should get an Ultima again if he wishes. He has learnt a lesson, as we all do through life, and will probably find that 2k worth of driver training will get him from A-B faster than 4k of engine mods. But we all learn at a different pace, so don't have a go at him - and this orginal post was a little inflammatory and castigating even if it had good intentions at heart.
Rgds
Domster
But if someone wants to put 500bhp or 1700bhp in it, then let them. Yes, it will be tricky to drive and it may be dangerous in the hands of less experienced drivers, but accidents can happen to any driver at any time, so there is no room for any kind of compacency. In any kind of car, from any kind of driver. The number of polacs (polic accidents not polish people
) show that even the best drivers have events conspire against them... spilt diesel... drunk drivers doing silly things etc. I have driven fast cars fast, and occasionally overstepped the mark. I am not proud of this, but I will still buy powerful cars and drive them to their limits and beyond... just out of harms way, on test tracks, from now on. Important lesson learnt.
When I was younger I used to think I could catch a slide anytime, anywhere. And I could 8 times out of 10, but then 9 was a fishtailer and 10 was into a ditch. So what I have learnt is that no matter how good a driver (or not) I am, the time to put things to the test is in controlled, safe(r) conditions. 8 out of 10, or 99 out of 100 simply isn't good enough with other cars around.
Now power output doesn't have to be some kind of ego trip, it can make a car trickier to drive, but then maybe that's the challenge. If I want an easy-to-drive rear wheel car I'd get an E46 BMW 3 series with ASC and the like. Very tricky to spin in the wet, with electronic nannying going on.
Powerful cars present a greater challenge, and human beings crave challenge and excitement. An inexperienced driver may crave these as much as a racing driver, so let them. Many will realise that the time and place to do so is on a test track, and that 8/10ths in the dry is enough on a public street. But when or if they do get it wrong, they may just be unlucky.
I think Tuckshop could be an extremely fine driver one day, and should get an Ultima again if he wishes. He has learnt a lesson, as we all do through life, and will probably find that 2k worth of driver training will get him from A-B faster than 4k of engine mods. But we all learn at a different pace, so don't have a go at him - and this orginal post was a little inflammatory and castigating even if it had good intentions at heart.
Rgds
Domster
Oh dear, poor old USCANAM, he took a bit of a battering up the page there but I have to say that he did have some points to make. Whilst I don’t subscribe to the manhood bit, a too powerful engine and an inexperienced or over bold driver is not a good combination. Whilst I enjoy watching successive Ultima builders going for ever increasing power (and that includes Stigs supercharged automotive porn) I think I will stick with the modest power in the mid 400s. Quite frankly I don’t trust myself with much more than this unless it is in a straight line on a track or wide empty road. Having moved to an Ultima from an MGB, a sensitive right foot is a must.
Oh and I would join in wishing the unfortunate Tuckshop a speedy recovery which is how all this started.
>> Edited by ultiman on Wednesday 4th December 17:38
Oh and I would join in wishing the unfortunate Tuckshop a speedy recovery which is how all this started.
>> Edited by ultiman on Wednesday 4th December 17:38
Well, according to USCANAM, I must be hung like a donkey, as I only have 330BHP in my little Mk4 Sport
I think that Stig has summed up the secret in a previous posting "Power is nothing without control". This could also be applied to the power of speech
James
Ultima-Racing.com
(PS. I have a nice row of shiny things that I won on the track too, both in my Ultima, and Rovers)
I think that Stig has summed up the secret in a previous posting "Power is nothing without control". This could also be applied to the power of speech
James
Ultima-Racing.com
(PS. I have a nice row of shiny things that I won on the track too, both in my Ultima, and Rovers)
Having read USCANAM's post, I gathered the impression that he was mainly speaking to those who have little or no experience or knowledge of driving cars with high output motors. People like tuckshop. I'm a little shocked to see the malicious response from people who took the male genital thing so personal. Is it just a British thing? Was USCANAM's post that offensive? It didn't bother me one bit...my wife's opinion is really all I care about. Since there are so few Ultima owners who actually participate in this forum, don't we want to encourage anyone who's visited or participated to stay? Don't we also want to encourage all the other Ultima owners out there to participate? USCANAM's contributed some good stuff to this forum in the past. Why would you gang up on someone who has the entire day to play, tinker, and build his Ultima. He has much more time than most of us to contribute and participate in this forum. He brings a lot of knowledge and experience to the table. One good friend of mine has already quit this forum b/c of crap like this...and he's one of the faster guys at the circuit. Maybe this topic should be changed to "How Many More Will Leave?" Who would want to be a part of a group where 12 people dog pile one guy. I really don't mind being ganged up on, and pretty much have come to expect it every time I post here. I bench press and squat over 350lbs, and figure some day I'll be fortunate enough to make it over to the UK to meet all you lovely chaps. I just like to hang around in case there's anything I can do to help another builder or owner. As a relatively novice driver, who selected an engine with 500hp and 430ft.lbs of torque, I'd hoped that sharing my perspective with this much power in an Ultima would open the eyes of a few other novice drivers who were encouraged to do the same. Tuckshops incident was a wake up call for me. I'm sure Ted&Co. have given second thoughts to letting just anyone actually drive a 550hp demonstrator. The ultima is a quick responding car, and I've had the A$$ out several times. Never at 90mph, but at 40mph and 50mph. It takes very little steering wheel movement to correct a slide in this car. We're talking about 2.5 turns lock to lock here. Having stepped up from a little BMW M3, I am amazed at how much more responsive and capable my Ultima is. The BMW was never able to run through the corners like my Ultima. When I first built my car, my best friend drove the car around the neighborhood. He's a pretty experienced driver, and is pretty comfortable in non-traction situations (in other words...he's scared the $hit out of me a few times in the past). My 1st and 2nd gear would not engage at the time, and so he was driving around the neighborhood in 3rd at low speed but having to rev the motor up to keep us moving. Yes, you can start an ultima moving in 3rd gear from a dead stop. We came around a turn at about 35mph, he gave it a little too much throttle, and we got very close to being completely sideways. Two quick steering movements is all it took to get out. It all happened very fast... He looked over at me and said, "Holy...$hit, did you see that?" He couldn't believe how fast he was able to correct out of the slide. Having purposefully been in the same situation a few times since then, I can see where a novice might not react quickly enough...if he even knows how to properly steer into it. Throw a big torquey motor into the picture that encourages wheelspin and the probability of loosing traction only increases. The proper way to correct a spin or slide can be learned, but loss of traction is still not something you have 100% control over. My fear is that many novices will discount the importance of driver education. Not too long ago, I'd heard that a large percent of the people who purchased Ultimas seldom took them to track days and driving instruction courses.
Here in the states, only one(possibly two) companies will even insure an Ultima. The kitcar/hotrod/collector car specialist underwriters don't want to insure them. When they hear Chevy V8, kit car, and fiberglass body...they run in droves. Forget trying to explain the benefits of a sound tubular space frame chassis to them... They'll be more concerned with the risk exposure of you assembling your own car.
USCANAM is correct in that there have been a statistically high number of deaths in conjunction with fiberglass bodied Cobra replicas here in the states...and its screwing up my chances of getting insurance on my ultima! Now it seems, instead of buying cobra kits, we Americans are beginning to discover the Ultima. I don't want to see inexperienced drivers, with 485ft.lb of torque motors, getting hurt. Having read Tuckshops thread, I only have one thing to say to him, "Get up off your A$$ and get back up on that horse!" Tuckshop, your missing out on the very best part of owning an ultima. Building one is only half the fun of driving one! You won't realize this, until you've had it out to a circuit or tarmac where you can discover the car's true capabilities. You have to loose control, in order to learn to regain it. Tuckshop, if you don't want to waste another year building your Ultima, then why not ask the Ultima Owner's Club to help with the build? Isn't that what friends are for? Any volunteers?
Cheers!
-Mack
Here in the states, only one(possibly two) companies will even insure an Ultima. The kitcar/hotrod/collector car specialist underwriters don't want to insure them. When they hear Chevy V8, kit car, and fiberglass body...they run in droves. Forget trying to explain the benefits of a sound tubular space frame chassis to them... They'll be more concerned with the risk exposure of you assembling your own car.
USCANAM is correct in that there have been a statistically high number of deaths in conjunction with fiberglass bodied Cobra replicas here in the states...and its screwing up my chances of getting insurance on my ultima! Now it seems, instead of buying cobra kits, we Americans are beginning to discover the Ultima. I don't want to see inexperienced drivers, with 485ft.lb of torque motors, getting hurt. Having read Tuckshops thread, I only have one thing to say to him, "Get up off your A$$ and get back up on that horse!" Tuckshop, your missing out on the very best part of owning an ultima. Building one is only half the fun of driving one! You won't realize this, until you've had it out to a circuit or tarmac where you can discover the car's true capabilities. You have to loose control, in order to learn to regain it. Tuckshop, if you don't want to waste another year building your Ultima, then why not ask the Ultima Owner's Club to help with the build? Isn't that what friends are for? Any volunteers?
Cheers!
-Mack
Quite so Bigmack. 
(Phew l hope l avoid getting duffed up)
Bench pressing 350lbs eh? by my calculation that should be enough to hold the torque of an Ultima with a 2 ft bar.
Lets hope we now see lots of informed comment and less sh*t at the gassing station.
The point of this though was to understand the comment about Poor Old Tuckshop (as he shall hereafter be known) who says he doesn't drive. Surely not! Tuckshop, I think we should be told.
(Phew l hope l avoid getting duffed up)
Bench pressing 350lbs eh? by my calculation that should be enough to hold the torque of an Ultima with a 2 ft bar.
Lets hope we now see lots of informed comment and less sh*t at the gassing station.
The point of this though was to understand the comment about Poor Old Tuckshop (as he shall hereafter be known) who says he doesn't drive. Surely not! Tuckshop, I think we should be told.
BIGMACK
A few quotes you need to re-read, who (if not people who already post on this site) is this aimed at.
"I have to surmize that in a lot of cases, the writer is lacking in some form of manhood size, and is attempting to make up for it with horsepower."
However you are correct this thread is going no-where, lets get back to the fun part of owning and building these cars.
A few quotes you need to re-read, who (if not people who already post on this site) is this aimed at.
"I have to surmize that in a lot of cases, the writer is lacking in some form of manhood size, and is attempting to make up for it with horsepower."
However you are correct this thread is going no-where, lets get back to the fun part of owning and building these cars.
Geez you guys are touchy. I thought there were some sensible observations made. You might read it as "I'm a big racing hero" or if you read it dispassionately then he's just saying that he's not some naieve numpty preaching, he's a man of experience.
The references to dick size are merely trying to point out the whole horsepower can appear to some observers as a grown ups' top trumps game with extreme power the key rather than a usable car...?
I'll get me nomex coat...
The references to dick size are merely trying to point out the whole horsepower can appear to some observers as a grown ups' top trumps game with extreme power the key rather than a usable car...?
I'll get me nomex coat...
Hear, hear.
As you'll see if you re-read my initial response, it was pretty light hearted and tongue in cheek (that's what smilies are for you know?).
As a final point before I close this thread, I stand by what I said. USACANAM kicked off in a fairly insulting way - both to me and other contributors - if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
End of story, can we all put our handbags down now?
As you'll see if you re-read my initial response, it was pretty light hearted and tongue in cheek (that's what smilies are for you know?).
As a final point before I close this thread, I stand by what I said. USACANAM kicked off in a fairly insulting way - both to me and other contributors - if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
End of story, can we all put our handbags down now?
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