Ultima GTR vs. FFR GTM?
Discussion
VanVondenburgh said:
Another company that I came across while researching Ultima and it's potential in the States is Born AutoWorks.
www.bornautoworks.com.
I corresponded with them and rcvd some pictures under an agreement of confidentiality and just let me say....."WOW"! Very impressive design...just gorgeous.
Expect more info soon.
Interesting. I found the guy that did the concept drawings www.bornautoworks.com.
I corresponded with them and rcvd some pictures under an agreement of confidentiality and just let me say....."WOW"! Very impressive design...just gorgeous.
Expect more info soon.
Edited by VanVondenburgh on Wednesday 1st August 17:34
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/47144245/
Fran Hall said:
There is an alternative..... http://superlitecars.com/
...2250lbs with a twin turbo 1UZFE Toyota/Lexus powerplant....
The engine bay is large enough to accept many sized engine and transaxle packages so the hard core one off builders can do something creative.....no donor parts needed, and shipped rolling with the body prefitted for approx. 22k quid...
Fran,...2250lbs with a twin turbo 1UZFE Toyota/Lexus powerplant....
The engine bay is large enough to accept many sized engine and transaxle packages so the hard core one off builders can do something creative.....no donor parts needed, and shipped rolling with the body prefitted for approx. 22k quid...
Edited by Fran Hall on Wednesday 18th July 00:22
Edited by Fran Hall on Wednesday 18th July 00:23
I have visited your Superlite webpage recently and am impressed. Do you have any information with regards to handling characteristics etc etc. as well as its dimensions? I know that RCR has developed a good reputation for building great chassis packages and was wondering how this chassis performs in comparison to some of your other designs.
Regards
Edited by VanVondenburgh on Wednesday 1st August 19:16
I can see where the RCR group is going, and there success can only be a good thing, but the RCRP I'm just not swung on it, compared to a GTR it looks kind of Square and not realy flowing features etc....to Kit Car not enough production looking if you know what I mean...
And that suspension systems look great but very Heavy and clumbersom, with not enough lenght in the wishbones to give a good amount of travel without to much movment in the rollcentres etc.
So nice but not me....
And that suspension systems look great but very Heavy and clumbersom, with not enough lenght in the wishbones to give a good amount of travel without to much movment in the rollcentres etc.
So nice but not me....
Clive ,
thanks for your intuative observations but let the car speak for itself when driven , which customers will be doing very soon.
I guarantee the weight of any chassis components will surprise you with their strength and reliabilty.... along with many other aspects of the car.....such as the chassis.
The control arms are also longer than they may appear in photographs...rest assured many high end cars from Corvett C5 and C6 , Ferrari 360 to Ford GT were CMM measured and analysed while the car was being developed...you may well be making sweeping generalisations that are unsupported with facts...unless of course you have been to my shop and measured the Superlite Coupe....
The body package was determined with CFD data and scale wind tunnel testing..so it may not "look" flowing but again looks are deceiving...
If you recall GTP and LeMans cars of yesteryear...non rounded shapes but bloody fast and very aerodynamically stable......actually the current crop of Le Mans car are very angular with great laminar flow characteristics.
This is not a "Fred in the Shed" project ...being based in Detroit and having worked for GM racing does have its benefits...especially as I am a Brit as well....and we all know thats the Brits know how to build race cars...right!!
Hows your top secret project coming along???..and when will you show it to the whole world so we can all appreciate the amount of work you have done??
thanks for your intuative observations but let the car speak for itself when driven , which customers will be doing very soon.
I guarantee the weight of any chassis components will surprise you with their strength and reliabilty.... along with many other aspects of the car.....such as the chassis.
The control arms are also longer than they may appear in photographs...rest assured many high end cars from Corvett C5 and C6 , Ferrari 360 to Ford GT were CMM measured and analysed while the car was being developed...you may well be making sweeping generalisations that are unsupported with facts...unless of course you have been to my shop and measured the Superlite Coupe....
The body package was determined with CFD data and scale wind tunnel testing..so it may not "look" flowing but again looks are deceiving...
If you recall GTP and LeMans cars of yesteryear...non rounded shapes but bloody fast and very aerodynamically stable......actually the current crop of Le Mans car are very angular with great laminar flow characteristics.
This is not a "Fred in the Shed" project ...being based in Detroit and having worked for GM racing does have its benefits...especially as I am a Brit as well....and we all know thats the Brits know how to build race cars...right!!
Hows your top secret project coming along???..and when will you show it to the whole world so we can all appreciate the amount of work you have done??
Edited by Fran Hall on Thursday 2nd August 05:55
GTWayne said:
jmf003 said:
Couldn't one avoid a Q plate by assembling the kit with all new parts rather than using a donor car?
Technically yes but being a US designed car it is unlikely that it will be SVA compliant and therefor can not be registered as a new car. Come to think of it, it will need to be SVA'd regardless of the age of the parts used so this matter will need to be addressed anyhow.Oops did we get out of bed the wrong side this morning....
This is a discussion forum. Where you view what you think, I'm no in anyway saying don't buy a RCRP, It looks to be a nice product, but all I'm saying is that it's not me, and part of that is it's appearance and thats always a personal thing....
I've done the GT40 thing and the then GTR, but I felt both where not what I was looking for long term, that doesn't mean there bad just not what I want right now.... So please let's stay friendly here ah...
Give my kind regards to Chris M...
PS and thanks lot for asking I'm at the mould making stages...
This is a discussion forum. Where you view what you think, I'm no in anyway saying don't buy a RCRP, It looks to be a nice product, but all I'm saying is that it's not me, and part of that is it's appearance and thats always a personal thing....
I've done the GT40 thing and the then GTR, but I felt both where not what I was looking for long term, that doesn't mean there bad just not what I want right now.... So please let's stay friendly here ah...
Give my kind regards to Chris M...
PS and thanks lot for asking I'm at the mould making stages...
Fran Hall said:
Clive ,
thanks for your intuative observations but let the car speak for itself when driven , which customers will be doing very soon.
I guarantee the weight of any chassis components will surprise you with their strength and reliabilty.... along with many other aspects of the car.....such as the chassis.
The control arms are also longer than they may appear in photographs...rest assured many high end cars from Corvett C5 and C6 , Ferrari 360 to Ford GT were CMM measured and analysed while the car was being developed...you may well be making sweeping generalisations that are unsupported with facts...unless of course you have been to my shop and measured the Superlite Coupe....
The body package was determined with CFD data and scale wind tunnel testing..so it may not "look" flowing but again looks are deceiving...
If you recall GTP and LeMans cars of yesteryear...non rounded shapes but bloody fast and very aerodynamically stable......actually the current crop of Le Mans car are very angular with great laminar flow characteristics.
This is not a "Fred in the Shed" project ...being based in Detroit and having worked for GM racing does have its benefits...especially as I am a Brit as well....and we all know thats the Brits know how to build race cars...right!!
Hows your top secret project coming along???..and when will you show it to the whole world so we can all appreciate the amount of work you have done??
thanks for your intuative observations but let the car speak for itself when driven , which customers will be doing very soon.
I guarantee the weight of any chassis components will surprise you with their strength and reliabilty.... along with many other aspects of the car.....such as the chassis.
The control arms are also longer than they may appear in photographs...rest assured many high end cars from Corvett C5 and C6 , Ferrari 360 to Ford GT were CMM measured and analysed while the car was being developed...you may well be making sweeping generalisations that are unsupported with facts...unless of course you have been to my shop and measured the Superlite Coupe....
The body package was determined with CFD data and scale wind tunnel testing..so it may not "look" flowing but again looks are deceiving...
If you recall GTP and LeMans cars of yesteryear...non rounded shapes but bloody fast and very aerodynamically stable......actually the current crop of Le Mans car are very angular with great laminar flow characteristics.
This is not a "Fred in the Shed" project ...being based in Detroit and having worked for GM racing does have its benefits...especially as I am a Brit as well....and we all know thats the Brits know how to build race cars...right!!
Hows your top secret project coming along???..and when will you show it to the whole world so we can all appreciate the amount of work you have done??
Edited by Fran Hall on Thursday 2nd August 05:55
Clive...
I understand this is a forum for expressing ones views...isn't that what I was doing too??
Get out of bed???....dont I actually have to get into bed first...I can sleep when I am dead...too many cars to build and fun to have now...sleep can wait.
You did make some sweeping statements about the components and their design and I was just enlightening anyone that may have been interested in hearing from the guy that actually manufactuers them ...thats all..no drama.
The car shares nothing with the previous RCR-P ...it is the Superlite Coupe.....new body ,new chassis and new suspension
I understand this is a forum for expressing ones views...isn't that what I was doing too??
Get out of bed???....dont I actually have to get into bed first...I can sleep when I am dead...too many cars to build and fun to have now...sleep can wait.
You did make some sweeping statements about the components and their design and I was just enlightening anyone that may have been interested in hearing from the guy that actually manufactuers them ...thats all..no drama.
The car shares nothing with the previous RCR-P ...it is the Superlite Coupe.....new body ,new chassis and new suspension
Edited by Fran Hall on Thursday 2nd August 12:34
Bitzleftover said:
San Diego GTR said:
mohrt, If saving a few bucks is more important to you then go with a GTM. The GTM will be a very nice car, but I would compare it to the Noble rather than a GTR.
Jeez just wait till the Noble guys read that!
Looks like the GTM got an article in Car and Driver, Here are some performance results:
Engine: Z06 LS7 (505 hp)
0-60: 3.0s
0-100: 6.6s
0-150: 15.2s
1/4 mile: 11.0s @132mph
70-0: 166ft
200ft skid pad: 1.05g
You can read the article here:
http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_...
Engine: Z06 LS7 (505 hp)
0-60: 3.0s
0-100: 6.6s
0-150: 15.2s
1/4 mile: 11.0s @132mph
70-0: 166ft
200ft skid pad: 1.05g
You can read the article here:
http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_...
Pinnacle-I'm sorry if I offended you. What I meant (and it is only my opinion) is that the GTM and Noble share features that offer more creature comforts (like roll up windows), whereas the Ultima is more of a track car with fewer comforts and a minimalist interior. IMHO, the designers started each with different goals. I have seen a few Noble's in Southern California and, you're right, they are very well finished and, I'm sure, quite fast. I wouldn't want to race a Noble or GTM in my M3.
On another note, can you tell us what is going on with the Rossion Q1. Seems Noble has sold out to Rossion for all but UK production. But even this latest offering with a 450hp/400T v6 doesn't appear to be up to Ultima performance standards. Its hard to say, it is so new they have very few pictures up on the website (www.rossioncars.com) and limited reviews. It looks like it has promise.
On another note, can you tell us what is going on with the Rossion Q1. Seems Noble has sold out to Rossion for all but UK production. But even this latest offering with a 450hp/400T v6 doesn't appear to be up to Ultima performance standards. Its hard to say, it is so new they have very few pictures up on the website (www.rossioncars.com) and limited reviews. It looks like it has promise.
VanVondenburgh said:
The images I saw really didn't have much in common with the picture on that link. That is a nice rendering however.
That website hasn't changed for ages now. If they're developing something, they're taking their time about it Edited by VanVondenburgh on Wednesday 1st August 18:35
Karlo said:
New pictures in the GTM Gallery
yummie
personally I like the black color though the yellow car is a looker.
Are you guy insane?
Are you mentaly unhinged?
The Noble costs TWICE as much to build as the GTM.
(Ok maybe only 20k-30K more)
And the ULTIMA costs two to THREE TIMES AS MUCH!
You wanna complain about fit and finish?
Well you could dunk the car IN GOLD for that price difference.
Take the extra 20k difference between the GTM
(that costs 50K BECAUSE they put a $16,000 dollar NEW LS7 engine in it)
and the Noble.
And add a supercharger and bigger brakes for ten thousand. Then Cover whatever you want in carbonfiber, suede, pop out screens etc etc.
Or take the 80k difference JUST IN THE STARTER KIT of the Ultima?
Price as quoted from Specialty File...
"Have we got a deal for you: Write out a nice check for $100,300 and send it to the British manufacturer of this beauty, and he'll send you the car all wrapped in a big shipping box -- only there's no engine."
http://www.caranddriver.com/specialtyfiles/3430/sp...
Funny....it costs half that to FINISH the GTM.
With that extra $80.000....YES EIGHTY THOUSAND WITHOUT MOTOR!!!!
you could buy the base kit FOUR ADDITIONAL TIMES!!!!!
And all you'll get is 100 pounds of weight savings and an ugly car that forces you to get a raw shoulder from bieng slammed into your passenger.
FACE THE FACTS
FULL KIT PRICE GTM 20,000 Full Kit price GTR (shipped) $100,300
Weight about 2350 Weight about 2250
engine tranny: Vette/Porche engine tranny Vette/Porsche
Comfort:huge cabin, nice interior Comfort: shoulder rubbing seats TOUCHING
Looks: Ferrari/GT 40 bastard Looks: Bubble cockpit fugly test mule
background: pourpose built racer Background: test mule sold l8r as a kit
beautifull at 1/3 the price Ugly at 3 times the price.
I KNOW Im bieng unfair but I could put supercharged brand new 15,000 Dollar LS7 engines in THREE of these cars and have them dripping with luxury for the cost one building ONE GTR to the same specs.
And I wont have to smack my helmet off my copilot or try to explain why its ok its ugly because its to centralise weight.
The GTM is a Ferrari like beauty with grace and passion a sensual italianesque muscle car bastard.
The GTR is decidedly not though its beuty IS there.
The GTM is comfortable and quiet The interior is well made and spacious.
The GTR is a shoulder rubber tight hell with a cheap straight dash.
The GTM and GTR have the same stats BASICLY. Same engine and Trany choices. Same layout. Comperable weight distribution. Comperable performance.
But the GTM was built to do everything the Ultima does and do it with more comfort, better looks, less noise and ONE FIFTH the base price.
I just cant see paying 5 times as much for a car that looks like a bubble on wheels and has such a noisy AMAZINGLY CRAMPED cabin interior.
GTR FACTS
FACT= Five times as much to get the full kit
FACT=TINY, CRAMPED cabin where the seats are so close together you rub agaisnt the person all the time and smack off them on turns. Interior also sux.
FACT=The Ultima is so cramped and unattractive because it was NEVER meant to be sold. It was a F1 parts test mule.
GTM FACTS
Fact= COST ONE FIFTH!
Fact= Full size cabin. A foot between passenger and driver. Nice interior.
Fact= GTM was built tested and redesigned,rebuilt and retested years before it was sold to the public. Its far more aestheticly pleasing. And with the EIGHTY THOUSAND you save you could easily buy ANOTHER for your wife. and max them both out with the finest parts money can buy.
Are you mentaly unhinged?
The Noble costs TWICE as much to build as the GTM.
(Ok maybe only 20k-30K more)
And the ULTIMA costs two to THREE TIMES AS MUCH!
You wanna complain about fit and finish?
Well you could dunk the car IN GOLD for that price difference.
Take the extra 20k difference between the GTM
(that costs 50K BECAUSE they put a $16,000 dollar NEW LS7 engine in it)
and the Noble.
And add a supercharger and bigger brakes for ten thousand. Then Cover whatever you want in carbonfiber, suede, pop out screens etc etc.
Or take the 80k difference JUST IN THE STARTER KIT of the Ultima?
Price as quoted from Specialty File...
"Have we got a deal for you: Write out a nice check for $100,300 and send it to the British manufacturer of this beauty, and he'll send you the car all wrapped in a big shipping box -- only there's no engine."
http://www.caranddriver.com/specialtyfiles/3430/sp...
Funny....it costs half that to FINISH the GTM.
With that extra $80.000....YES EIGHTY THOUSAND WITHOUT MOTOR!!!!
you could buy the base kit FOUR ADDITIONAL TIMES!!!!!
And all you'll get is 100 pounds of weight savings and an ugly car that forces you to get a raw shoulder from bieng slammed into your passenger.
FACE THE FACTS
FULL KIT PRICE GTM 20,000 Full Kit price GTR (shipped) $100,300
Weight about 2350 Weight about 2250
engine tranny: Vette/Porche engine tranny Vette/Porsche
Comfort:huge cabin, nice interior Comfort: shoulder rubbing seats TOUCHING
Looks: Ferrari/GT 40 bastard Looks: Bubble cockpit fugly test mule
background: pourpose built racer Background: test mule sold l8r as a kit
beautifull at 1/3 the price Ugly at 3 times the price.
I KNOW Im bieng unfair but I could put supercharged brand new 15,000 Dollar LS7 engines in THREE of these cars and have them dripping with luxury for the cost one building ONE GTR to the same specs.
And I wont have to smack my helmet off my copilot or try to explain why its ok its ugly because its to centralise weight.
The GTM is a Ferrari like beauty with grace and passion a sensual italianesque muscle car bastard.
The GTR is decidedly not though its beuty IS there.
The GTM is comfortable and quiet The interior is well made and spacious.
The GTR is a shoulder rubber tight hell with a cheap straight dash.
The GTM and GTR have the same stats BASICLY. Same engine and Trany choices. Same layout. Comperable weight distribution. Comperable performance.
But the GTM was built to do everything the Ultima does and do it with more comfort, better looks, less noise and ONE FIFTH the base price.
I just cant see paying 5 times as much for a car that looks like a bubble on wheels and has such a noisy AMAZINGLY CRAMPED cabin interior.
GTR FACTS
FACT= Five times as much to get the full kit
FACT=TINY, CRAMPED cabin where the seats are so close together you rub agaisnt the person all the time and smack off them on turns. Interior also sux.
FACT=The Ultima is so cramped and unattractive because it was NEVER meant to be sold. It was a F1 parts test mule.
GTM FACTS
Fact= COST ONE FIFTH!
Fact= Full size cabin. A foot between passenger and driver. Nice interior.
Fact= GTM was built tested and redesigned,rebuilt and retested years before it was sold to the public. Its far more aestheticly pleasing. And with the EIGHTY THOUSAND you save you could easily buy ANOTHER for your wife. and max them both out with the finest parts money can buy.
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