Ultima GTR vs. FFR GTM?
Discussion
andygtt said:
Go ahead and put your order in for the GTM without doing proper research,
.... Im betting that old Tiger is one of those guys that never gets past the "research phase".... and I am tipping all of his research is done on the net.Prove me wrong Tiger - show me some photos of the supercars you've built, helped build, driven or even ridden in. (apart from your 01 Camaro)
Edited by crafty on Saturday 10th November 01:28
crafty said:
andygtt said:
Go ahead and put your order in for the GTM without doing proper research,
.... Im betting that old Tiger is one of those guys that never gets past the "research phase".... and I am tipping all of his research is done on the net.Prove me wrong Tiger - show me some photos of the supercars you've built, helped build, driven or even ridden in. (apart from your 01 Camaro)
Edited by crafty on Saturday 10th November 01:28
A couple 55 dodges. And my first foray into kit building was a Sterling kitcar that I bought a twin turbo Subaru engine for and was in mid build of when I saw two years ago that the GTM was made.
I then sold one of my sterlings and its engine, and am about to sell the other sterling and my prelude to help pay for my GTM.
As for research phase. Yeah Ive researched them both exstensivly.
When I was a kid I wanted a Sterling.(I bought two) Then I found that even with 450 HP it would never get any respect bieng a VW bug chassis derivitive or handle properly with its horrid suspension.
Then when I was 18 I learned about the GTR.
My friend Brian and I obsessed about its stats. WE WERE GIDDY when it got into Sport Compact Cars "Ultimate Street Car Challenge" and crushed when it didnt win.
We yearned to see it in Gran Turismo,
I contemplated the GTR and just couldnt get over the looks, the cockpit or the price.
Then Factory Five Came out with the GTM an lo it was good.
For it had the styling I desired.
The drive train layout of the Ultima.
A beautifull cockpit.
and I wouldnt have to straddle the fuel tanks to get in.
It was everything I wanted and I sold my old project cars to afford it.
It will still be another year before I can buy the kit but My dad a retired mechanic, will be purchasing the Cobra Roadster at the same time.
Ive many half finished projects where I had five cars going at once...NONE getting close as they vied for my time.
Ive now sold most and am selling the rest to help bankroll My GTM dream.
Yeah Ive researched.
Stats are stats. I dont need to ride in a GTR to realise that its cramped and sparse.
As for riding in fast cars.
Jaguar XK120
Corvette Z06
Hemi Charger (cant remember the size)
SS Camaro's
Superbikes
etc.
Do I really need to sit in your GTR to see it has no roll down windows and no interior?
Do I need to ride in it to know its massivly more expensive?
Come on guys your best arguments have been the weight and thats because the GTM had Power accesories and AC, more sound deadening etc etc.
The GTR is a striking car....not a pretty car
(except in black...then its sex on wheels....and blue), its to cramped and way overpriced.
The GTM IS a beautifull purpouse built race car that would have the same stats if not for windows that actuall go down etc.
I've bought kitcars, worked on restoring a classic XK120 and have the cash (in a year or so) To build the GTM.
Ive done my research.
The stats are there.
Its the SAME DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT
SAME weight distribution.
Better styling
More amenities and comfort
They're statisticly practicly the same with the exception of price and acoutraments.
Edited by Hurricane Tiger on Saturday 10th November 04:07
Edited by Hurricane Tiger on Saturday 10th November 04:31
Edited by Hurricane Tiger on Saturday 10th November 04:31
andygtt said:
Tiger. Look, do your homework before you post... especially if you are going to use the word 'FACT' in caplitals. Fact is in the UK most Ultimas are built for under £50k, thats $100k with the current rubbish $.
It's fairly clear that you have never seen an Ultima in the flesh let along sat or driven in one. You may well think the GTM is great and better than an Ultima and in some areas for some people you may be right...
Go ahead and put your order in for the GTM without doing proper research, it sounds like you will be over the moon with it and I wish you luck.
Thanks for not TOTOLY trashing me.It's fairly clear that you have never seen an Ultima in the flesh let along sat or driven in one. You may well think the GTM is great and better than an Ultima and in some areas for some people you may be right...
Go ahead and put your order in for the GTM without doing proper research, it sounds like you will be over the moon with it and I wish you luck.
Look I LOVE them both. Im just OUTRAGED at ultima for charging SO much for the car and not even giving it an interior. MY SEVENTIES STERLING has a better interior! And I TOTOLY agree the Ultima is a VERRY pure race car. AND I HATE ...HATE to admit it but if I HAD to win a race the vastly more centralised mass and less violent pollar moment of inertia change, perfect stable weight transfer.....
The ultima is the Ultimate supercar kit ...for racing... 100% I ADMIT THAT!
And DO NOT mention the Atom. It will never stack up next to the Ultima.
I saw the GTM get attacked and was quick to defend violently. Sorry.
But Im an intelligent young man. And I know mechanincs and physics as well if not better than the next guy and everything Ive seen has pointed to the GTM bieng a real contender(if slightly plusher) to the GTR.
The GTM will probably always live in the background of the GTR's shadow but when you tell me the GTM is rough and then everyone who says THAT mentions they were looking at the three year old prototype....No. The GTM MAY not be as thouroughly and purpously built as the GTR but Its interrior and ammenities, its shape that has great aerodynamics and downforce not to mention beauty. They all add up to a great car that while maybe only bieng 90% of the GTR. costs half as much to build and in some ways DOES outshaine. Look at the cockpit, the body.
I'll say this.
THE GTR IS THEE TOP of the race kit world. Speed , prestige and razor sharp performance.
BUT the GTR is I feel more fleshed out, beautifull, for what I save in it I truely I believe if I were so inclined I could surpass a GTR of the same investment.
As far as showing you mine...
In time.
Im going to take my time on it. Make sure everything is optimised. A focus on reliable clean power.
Powdercoating the frame and panels. Cryoing the drivetrain and suspension.
And for the power I'm going to go with a supercharged built ls2. And aim for a RELIABLE 600.
I figure it will be ready TWO years from now and Im going to do my best, to build the best car I can for 60k or hopefully less depending.
Maybe. JUST MAYBE I can build a car of beauty up to your standars if I take my time. Make the informed choices. And dont get to greedy for horsepower.
HAve a great one guys and give the GTM a chance. I really think she deserves it.
Edited by Hurricane Tiger on Saturday 10th November 04:27
Edited by Hurricane Tiger on Saturday 10th November 04:31
^^ as expected - doesnt seem you've been in a GTR or a GTM.
You should go for a ride in both before you start saying one is better than the other.
I hope you do build the car of your dreams, and do wish you all the very best....... but until then dont expect to come onto a GTR forum and trash it without getting flamed.
You should go for a ride in both before you start saying one is better than the other.
I hope you do build the car of your dreams, and do wish you all the very best....... but until then dont expect to come onto a GTR forum and trash it without getting flamed.
Edited by crafty on Saturday 10th November 05:20
FACT: You are not posting the facts. When you finish your research, and it appears you've just started, perhaps you will come to the same conclusions. Or, perhaps you will decide on a GTR. I hope you won't choose your dream car just on looks, or just it's roots, or just because you can stick your elbow out the window. Besides, the only thing an Ultima driver will see is a small reflection in the side-view mirrors. Your elbow won't be visible.
As far as looks go, you know the saying; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the FFF style of asthetics. Therefore, which one of these looks more like a real race car?
It looks that way because...it's the most efficient (or more efficient) than a street car. In my opinion, the GTM looks like an attempt to graft half a Viper onto half a Corvette. But, there's no accounting for tast, is there. And, opinions vary. Per your request, I have looked at the GTM website. I think I've gathered enough information about pricing, performance, and sex-appeal to make my decission. The GTR is still king in my book. Good luck with whatever you choose. Put up a website so folks can see your progress.
As far as looks go, you know the saying; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the FFF style of asthetics. Therefore, which one of these looks more like a real race car?
It looks that way because...it's the most efficient (or more efficient) than a street car. In my opinion, the GTM looks like an attempt to graft half a Viper onto half a Corvette. But, there's no accounting for tast, is there. And, opinions vary. Per your request, I have looked at the GTM website. I think I've gathered enough information about pricing, performance, and sex-appeal to make my decission. The GTR is still king in my book. Good luck with whatever you choose. Put up a website so folks can see your progress.
Tiger had me confused for a minute there saying you have to climb in over the fuel tanks then I remembered he knows F all about the GTR and what it is about.
Note to Tiger.
The fuel tanks are further back. Alongside driver and passenger are spacious storage compartments that double as crumple zones.
Steve
Note to Tiger.
The fuel tanks are further back. Alongside driver and passenger are spacious storage compartments that double as crumple zones.
Steve
Have to say the GTM is a tempting prospect, but looks wise, the more I look at it, the less appeal it has compared to the Ultima.
Now this "Born Autoworks" that was alluded to on Page 2... THAT really looks the business from the couple of pics I've seen. Be interesting to hear if it's any more than skin deep.
Now this "Born Autoworks" that was alluded to on Page 2... THAT really looks the business from the couple of pics I've seen. Be interesting to hear if it's any more than skin deep.
GTWayne said:
^ Why Steven, really, you ALMOST sound cross 
Well I am a little.Why can't the guy just say 'Nice car but not for me' four or five Ultima owners/enthusiasts have already said that of the GTM.
His profile shows that he seems to have joined PistonHeads for no other purpose than to slag off the Ultima. I accept this is probably immaturity and hope that before long he will realise that this is not the way to treat others and apologise.
I live in hope.
Steve
Steve_D said:
Tiger had me confused for a minute there saying you have to climb in over the fuel tanks then I remembered he knows F all about the GTR and what it is about.
Note to Tiger.
The fuel tanks are further back. Alongside driver and passenger are spacious storage compartments that double as crumple zones.
Steve
this is the problem I have with his posts as they state Facts that are absolute and totally wrong so clearly NO reseach could have gone into his thoughts......Note to Tiger.
The fuel tanks are further back. Alongside driver and passenger are spacious storage compartments that double as crumple zones.
Steve
The cost is the best example, I only spent about £20k with the factory (about $40k) and a GTM would need every other component I bought that I didn't source from Ultima (engine, box, wheels ect) so the most the saving could be would be £10k max and correct me if I am wrong but unlike the Ultima you have to paint the GTM and that will be £4k.... so clearly no research has been done here at all in the MOST important part of a build.
As Many know, having actually owned an ultima there are things I now want that an Ultima can't offer (electric windows and a stowable hard top for a start)..... but mine is an informed choice and I have done masses of research before I embarked on my new build.
I'm not dissing the GTM or their owners I happen to like the concept probably as much as I like the Ultima concept, I wouldn't have one though as it's still missing some major requirements that I want from my mid engine supercar.
FACT: Hurricane - can you refrain from posting in this forum unless you've got something useful to say, rather than supposition about whether a GTM is better than an Ultima, which only serves to rile the regular contributors.
I'm pleased the GTM toasts your buns (as it were), but this is an Ultima forum and you can't expect to come here (especially as a newbie) and post negative/provocative comments about a car that most of the forum contributors support, without coming in for a veritable 24-pack of whoop-ass (as you might put it).
For the record, please post GTM 'opinion' in the Kit Car forum - that's what it's there for, as the GTM is unequivocably a kit car, not a component built supercar.
I'm pleased the GTM toasts your buns (as it were), but this is an Ultima forum and you can't expect to come here (especially as a newbie) and post negative/provocative comments about a car that most of the forum contributors support, without coming in for a veritable 24-pack of whoop-ass (as you might put it).
For the record, please post GTM 'opinion' in the Kit Car forum - that's what it's there for, as the GTM is unequivocably a kit car, not a component built supercar.
Steve_D said:
Tiger had me confused for a minute there saying you have to climb in over the fuel tanks then I remembered he knows F all about the GTR and what it is about.
Note to Tiger.
The fuel tanks are further back. Alongside driver and passenger are spacious storage compartments that double as crumple zones.
Steve
Yes I do realise that and Do think its extremely neat seeing as how the GTM doesnt have neat cubbies and would be a bitch shopping. That bieng said. Realising theres actualy a useable place for your stuff....Has elevated the usefullness of the GTR a ton in my eyes.Note to Tiger.
The fuel tanks are further back. Alongside driver and passenger are spacious storage compartments that double as crumple zones.
Steve
My issue with the compartments was the first time I saw them on a GTR there were ancilery tanks there. I guess it had been a custom mod. But It still goes to my major gripe. Cost aside. because many say it will come out to the same to build equelly sorted out cars I will not complain too much on price.
I still dont appreciate seats that close together or the obvious difficulty of entering and exiting the cockpit. ALSO In the years I read about the ULTIMA....not specifically the GTR but the Can Am I was IN LOVE with the car.
I will state this. AGAIN!
The Ultima GTR is the best all around race kit on the market PERIOD.
my only compliants were the much higher price, interior, comfort,and styling.
BUT IVE STATED that the car is the way it it because its a pure sports car. stop cherry picking my comments like I havent sang its praises.
I LOVE THEM BOTH. The thread is about wich is better and in my oppinion the GTM is a better deal, everybit as well made, more spacious and much better looking.....mind you I have already stated in an out and out race I would take the GTR!
Builder said:
FACT: You are not posting the facts. When you finish your research, and it appears you've just started, perhaps you will come to the same conclusions. Or, perhaps you will decide on a GTR. I hope you won't choose your dream car just on looks, or just it's roots, or just because you can stick your elbow out the window. Besides, the only thing an Ultima driver will see is a small reflection in the side-view mirrors. Your elbow won't be visible.
As far as looks go, you know the saying; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the FFF style of asthetics. Therefore, which one of these looks more like a real race car?
It looks that way because...it's the most efficient (or more efficient) than a street car. In my opinion, the GTM looks like an attempt to graft half a Viper onto half a Corvette. But, there's no accounting for tast, is there. And, opinions vary. Per your request, I have looked at the GTM website. I think I've gathered enough information about pricing, performance, and sex-appeal to make my decission. The GTR is still king in my book. Good luck with whatever you choose. Put up a website so folks can see your progress.
Ok I'm not even gonna do a Ferrari and GT40 collage war back as a statement that a racecar can have sleeker line......nope.....(cause it would be way to hard) that...and I acknowledge how right you are.As far as looks go, you know the saying; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I prefer the FFF style of asthetics. Therefore, which one of these looks more like a real race car?
It looks that way because...it's the most efficient (or more efficient) than a street car. In my opinion, the GTM looks like an attempt to graft half a Viper onto half a Corvette. But, there's no accounting for tast, is there. And, opinions vary. Per your request, I have looked at the GTM website. I think I've gathered enough information about pricing, performance, and sex-appeal to make my decission. The GTR is still king in my book. Good luck with whatever you choose. Put up a website so folks can see your progress.
You see I think both ars are about neck and neck where the ultima gives ten percent more in looks and comfort the GTR is ten percent more PURE in the form follows function racer way.
The GTM is a gorgeous 80% race car built to look fabulouse and be livable.
The GTR is a striking 90% race car based on precision and function.
Ive stated many times that I LOVE BOTH. and that I just feel Ultima could give thier clients who pay so much more a real interior instead of the spartan layout it has wich seems a lil cheap BUT THEN after hearing you guys recite form follows function a hundred times I realised YES a fuller interior and roll up windows would have kept the GTR from bieng the perfect no hold barred racer it is.
I LOVE THEM BOTH. And I believe they are both an amazing value.
I just HAVE ALAYS WISHED for a GTR that was more GT40/ferrari esque and more comfortable. The GTM appears to be that car....to me.
Also while looking at your collage thingie....the Ultima GTR is VASTLY sexier than those race cars....I admit its a sexy car. IT IS! I just think the GTM is much sexier....BUT I ALSO realise the GTR's form and body are MUCH more functional and keep downforce high and weight centralised.
Edited by Hurricane Tiger on Sunday 11th November 23:58
Steve_D said:
GTWayne said:
^ Why Steven, really, you ALMOST sound cross
Well I am a little.Why can't the guy just say 'Nice car but not for me' four or five Ultima owners/enthusiasts have already said that of the GTM.
His profile shows that he seems to have joined PistonHeads for no other purpose than to slag off the Ultima. I accept this is probably immaturity and hope that before long he will realise that this is not the way to treat others and apologise.
I live in hope.
Steve
I just saw the car I prefer bieng trashed on with comments of bad build quality when anyone who's been to a Sema show or a run and gun KNOW Factory Five builds QUALITY. They spent 5 years developing this car.
Its well built. Perfectly welded. 5 Years Thought out. And beautifull. Only the looks were ever focus grouped and that was for the tail alone. The price is only as low as it is because factory five runs on almost NO profit margin. They build cars FOR THE LOVE of it and when they built the GTM it was to fullfill a DREAM of building a super high quality world beater that YOU could afford. The GTM is what I think the result of a GTR and a Ferrai crossbreeding would be.
Ive stated MANY times that if I were in a race. Ide take the GTR.
Does anyone wanna appologise for saying the GTM was bieng shodily built?
Because its not. Factory Five IS one of the best companies in the Kit Car world.
My dad has a Jaguar XK120 m. HE LOVES IT. And his mint condition 1926 dodge.
And his various 55+/- dodge cars and truck. I myself love my lil TINY Honda N600 mini cars and CR-xs.
Dad loves old school perfection. I love light and easy to maintain fun.
I admit I had forgotten that only a few race built Ultima's chose to install fuel safes in the sides for distance racing. I LIKE that there are compartments there.....just not that you have to climb over them. I USED to know everything about Ultima's 3 years ago when I was huge on kit cars of all sorts and the ULTIMA was my dream car. Then I started seeing things I didnt like about it and wished for the same car, but with the Ferrari styling and a nicer interior.
When I read about the Factory Five GTR 200 (its old prototype name) I just became obsessed and forgot about the car I had idealised since highscool.
Im' 27 now. I STILL love The Ultima and have watched every youtube video on it and bought every magazine Ive seen that had it. (IT SHOULD have won the USCC a few years back.)
Im sorry I was course.
I was infuriated about the elitest trash talk of the car Im buying in a little over a year that I just sold half my cars to buy.
The GTM isnt as pure as the ultima I ADMIT. But Its EXTREMELY well built.
Love em both and JUST SO you know. when I'm around EITHER you can be sure I'll be bouncing and dancing around in joy and praising thier owners on awesome cars and good taste.
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