Ultima GTR LMP "The re-build"

[Graham-P]

Just to throw an idea in, how about swapping the radiator and fuel tanks over? Have a fuel cell in the 'square' where the radiator is and twin radiators where the fuel tanks were. I guess you would need to make the front section more suitable for holding a fuel tank, you would have the problem of a front end going lighter as the fuel load goes down but I'm sure some clever areo could be worked out, also you would need to work out the best way to exit the heat from the radiators out of the rear clip, plus all the heat would be behind you.
Just a thought.
Graham

[petrol head ash]

olsson99 said:

Thought it was time for a little update...

Pics are a few days old so pretty soon I should be getting pics that will be very close to what it will look like... ;-) I think the new lights look great, anyone who can identify them? ;-)



Hope you like!

/JON

Are the lights ferrari california?

Looking good, how much wider than the standard Ultima will it be?

[Pb3]

Graham-P said:

Just to throw an idea in, how about swapping the radiator and fuel tanks over? Have a fuel cell in the 'square' where the radiator is and twin radiators where the fuel tanks were. I guess you would need to make the front section more suitable for holding a fuel tank, you would have the problem of a front end going lighter as the fuel load goes down but I'm sure some clever areo could be worked out, also you would need to work out the best way to exit the heat from the radiators out of the rear clip, plus all the heat would be behind you.
Just a thought.
Graham

The thing is that front section housing the rad is all front crash protection, I would be a little worried about a nasty accident with a tank full of fuel being washed over the car(?)

[GTRCLIVE]

Mjpmark said:

I did aload of investigatig into that bodywork (in fact that exact bodywork), with a certain SSS.

However depending on which fuel system and engine application you are running, those side pods are not possible. However if you are running the Audi engine, then the sky is the limit.

Thats because the fuel tanks are in the wrong place..... First thing I moved.
Also better protection from side impact if it's in the middle of the car.

[Mjpmark]

Morning Clive, Hows your build progressing?

[Strike1]

Check this link out ......

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Content/News/General_New...

And this....

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=4849

What this Ultima GTR looked like after it rolled , apparently this car did have impact on one of the standard fuel tanks. Tragic loss of life.

[Steve_D]

Strike1 said:

Check this link out ......

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Content/News/General_New...

And this....

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=4849

What this Ultima GTR looked like after it rolled , apparently this car did have impact on one of the standard fuel tanks. Tragic loss of life.

What is the relevance of this post?

It has nothing to do with the subject of the thread and the accident was 2 years ago.

Steve

[GTRCLIVE]

Someone mentioned crash protection....side impact to fuel tanks is also worth protecting...

[GTRCLIVE]

Oops Sorry Steve your right wrong thread....

[donkeasy]

chuntington101 said:

I think, and someone please correct me if im wrong here, is the fuelk tank location. With the SBC/LS engines you have to have the fuel ceels mounted in the standard location. With the audi V8s and i think V10s you can mount the fuel sell in fornt of the engine and therefoore free up the side pod area. Is that right everyone?.......

Chris.

Yes you can put a tank there, with a V10 like mine it can be
14 cm deep, 40 cm high and 80 cm sideways: 45 liter that is.

At the moment I am working on it. for me it is a catchtank 14x35x60= 25 liter

I will make pictures, in the process.

Edited by donkeasy on Sunday 27th February 21:46

[Argentus]

thanks donkeasy that would be helpful.

[harry b]

I never understood why you ever would want to have Aluminium fueltanks anywhere in the car apart from the fact that they are cheap. Even filled with foam, they will rip open anywhere in the car. The amount of G forces applied to the tank will shear the aluminium sheeting or pickup points.
Over time Aluminium will automatically harden get prone to cracks and less and less deformable, a process which is accelerated with temperatures above 150degrees celcius. So an enginebay is a good atmosphere to harden soft aluminium.

Take your design to ATL or whatever fuelcell producer and get some explosion or crashsafe versions like I have them custom made for the sidepods or which point you prefer. Budget around GBP3500. My life is worth a bit more for me. Any shape is possible with fuel cells.

[chuntington101]

harry b said:

I never understood why you ever would want to have Aluminium fueltanks anywhere in the car apart from the fact that they are cheap. Even filled with foam, they will rip open anywhere in the car. The amount of G forces applied to the tank will shear the aluminium sheeting or pickup points.
Over time Aluminium will automatically harden get prone to cracks and less and less deformable, a process which is accelerated with temperatures above 150degrees celcius. So an enginebay is a good atmosphere to harden soft aluminium.

Take your design to ATL or whatever fuelcell producer and get some explosion or crashsafe versions like I have them custom made for the sidepods or which point you prefer. Budget around GBP3500. My life is worth a bit more for me. Any shape is possible with fuel cells.

Thats a good point Harry! what material do people like ATL use for their fuel cells? Also have you got any pics of your?

THanks,

Chris.

[Pb3]

Chris, this taken from Harry's thread a few pages back:

[teamHOLDENracing]

chuntington101 said:

Thats a good point Harry! what material do people like ATL use for their fuel cells? Also have you got any pics of your?

THanks,

Chris.

They make them out of ballistic nylon - they deform but don't rip or split. They will need a rigid container to sit in. The other point to note is they are lifed and don't last indefinitely

[GTRCLIVE]

ATL fuel tank will be lighter as well. But how many kit cars use this sort of tank ? None... How many road cars use this tank ?? Not very many I guess, maybe a few supercars companies with 6 figure car prices... XJ220 I know has them. If some one wants to use them then that's fine, but most people just don't want to pay that much for a Fuel Tank. So putting the ally tanks in the best position you can is a good start.
Give a racing engineer a clean sheet of paper then I bet he'd put the fuel tank closest to the middle of the car every time. But when building a car there is always a compromise you have to make at some point, its the solution's to those compromises that make the best cars.

[GTRCLIVE]

Pb3 said:

Chris, this taken from Harry's thread a few pages back:

Lovely tank and yes it might not split or tare, but imagine you have just filled up that tank, and pulling out of the fuel station some one hits you in the side at 15mph. Only having a piece of 1" box and F/G between it and the other car I'm guessing that fuel will still have to go somewhere ? is there a big over flow vent to stop it coming out of the cap ??

[harry b]

Didn't have the experience, but the fuelcell will go somewhere without exploding like a waterballoon or rip, and actually they have a rollover valve.
To be 100% safe you could also use drycut connectors in the fuellines to make sure they disconnect just there.
The cells are FIA approved and are very impact resistant.
I'm no salesperson from ATL, but just take a look at the photos and video on the link:
http://www.atlinc.com/racing.html

[harry b]

GTRCLIVE said:

ATL fuel tank will be lighter as well. But how many kit cars use this sort of tank ? None... How many road cars use this tank ?? Not very many I guess, maybe a few supercars companies with 6 figure car prices... XJ220 I know has them. If some one wants to use them then that's fine, but most people just don't want to pay that much for a Fuel Tank. So putting the ally tanks in the best position you can is a good start.
Give a racing engineer a clean sheet of paper then I bet he'd put the fuel tank closest to the middle of the car every time. But when building a car there is always a compromise you have to make at some point, its the solution's to those compromises that make the best cars.

Under the seat is the best position for a racecar engineer. For me, outside the cage, where it will spin away from the car in an heavy accident.
I wouldn't want to be near a fueltank in an accident, specially behind my seat.
In case of the small 15mph accident as you mention, most cars are way to high to hit the fuelcell at all. Do what you want, I'd rather have the ATL option in stead of some fancy gimmicks.
I know what I'm talking about in that perspective. I'm crippled for life but still living due to the items mentioned surviving a 100mph+ accident.

If we are talking what if cases, imagine the fueltank behind the seat or in front of the engine. If you hit something headon, the engine will push forward, the mandrell will pierce the alloy tank, the heat will ignite the fuelspray in a forward motion, towards, the cockpit. Think about that one.

[donkeasy]

You are right Harry
These are the pair everybody shoot have.
Bit expensive but the real thing.
The only reason why I did not buy these:
because I did not know where to get them.
I bought 2 ATL soft sells for 35 liter.