Retiring in Asia ( pros / cons , options )

[wisbech]

A con for Indonesia is that they will tax you on world wide income - no special tax status for retirees. Of course, many forget to declare, but the risk is there.

Most retirees go to Bali. But some friends of ours just moved from Jogja to Menado (they are a gay foreign/ local couple, and the local’s gay activism was causing issues) and love it. More tolerant, diving is great. Sulawesi has good scenery for hiking as well. But without Bahasa Indonesia you will struggle - it isn’t exactly cosmopolitan

Medical care in Indonesia is poor to terrible - there is a reason most Indonesians go to Singapore or Penang for treatment...

Yes, East Malaysia has its own immigration control for MM2H

[XJSJohn]

wisbech said:

XJSJohn said:

thats even more bandit country than my place in Jawa Timor ...

Di mana mas?

BWI,

Mrs from Surabaya, but she knows Malang, went to Uni there.

[XJSJohn]

wisbech said:

Most retirees go to Bali. But some friends of ours just moved from Jogja to Menado (they are a gay foreign/ local couple, and the local’s gay activism was causing issues) and love it. More tolerant, diving is great. Sulawesi has good scenery for hiking as well. But without Bahasa Indonesia you will struggle - it isn’t exactly cosmopolitan

Menado is getting off teh grid!!! i can imagine that if you are of that persuasion, Java and Sumatra are not going to be very open minded to you!

Gulf of Tomini is on my list of places to go exploring, amazing place to see by boat.

Been looking at Sumba as a long term speculative punt also ..... just early poking about at the moment though

[anonymous-user]

I wouldn't buy off plan in Malaysia, far too many failed developments, I know Malaysians who have lost out where they paid for things not built, as a forigner you don't have to he local knowledge.
My wife is into property in Indonesia, she knows the market and does ok, no way is she prepared to look in Malaysia at doing the same thing as she recognizes she doesn't have the local knowledge.

[alfaman]

Berw said:

Malaysia has a number of states and they each set a minimum value on what forigners can buy, so it's different in each state, KL 1 million, Penang is 2m, by statute. Some states also take a long time to approve a purchase. Selengor has been known to refuse. Kl took one year to approve my purchase.
I agreed to rent my place while I was seeking approval, as several sellers would not sell to a forigner due to the time delay.
You can pm me if you want advice, I've lived in Kl, Borneo and most of peninsular Malaysia with work.

Thanks for that ... 2m is a reasonably high hurdle ... but quick look at mm2h suggests renting is OK ( though I’d rather own long term).

[alfaman]

Berw said:

. The election last week of Pas on the east coast means it is lickly that alcohol sales will be banned there as they where last time pas run the state.

Oof! If alcohol sales are banned down near Semporna ... that will hit the tourism / diving business (Sipadan is an amazing dive area )

... keep selling alcohol and use the tax the clean and tidy the rotting fish smell from the port

[XJSJohn]

Berw said:

I wouldn't buy off plan in Malaysia, far too many failed developments, I know Malaysians who have lost out where they paid for things not built, as a forigner you don't have to he local knowledge.
My wife is into property in Indonesia, she knows the market and does ok, no way is she prepared to look in Malaysia at doing the same thing as she recognizes she doesn't have the local knowledge.

fair comment .... there are some reasonably safe ones in Iskander, which is a combination of Singapore and Abu Dhabi money but then again, do you want to live in Johor? Its basically a sunny Croydon to Singapore ....

[anonymous-user]

Problem with Iskander is it is not sustainable, looking at Chinese customers and the Chinese banks aren't to interested to loan, and Johor, Im there as i write this its a dump, weekend is full of drunken Singaporeans.

The place I have in KL was a stalled development, we bought of the guy who bought of plan he made no money. But when I bought he never meet me dealt with the wife, my lawyer said I paid 10k less than any other European in the development.

I'd rent to start with, you can rent a decent Condo in KL for 500 pound a month at the moment, and top class duplex for 1,000. I know some one who just rented in 3 Kia Peng, very high end.

I rented in the same condo as Xks owned in at one time, great place, city center nice two bed, I only moved out because the pool wasn't child friendly when the kids came in the summer.

One issue all the retirement visas insist on a medical insurance, which can be difficult to get at 65+ unless you are an existing customer.

[XJSJohn]

Berw said:

Problem with Iskander is it is not sustainable, looking at Chinese customers and the Chinese banks aren't to interested to loan, and Johor, Im there as i write this its a dump, weekend is full of drunken Singaporeans.

Oi, we resemble that comment - but yes, it is basically the new Chinese suburbs of Singapore, but the more SG and MY play silly buggers with borders etc the less viable it becomes.

Berw said:

I rented in the same condo as Xks owned in at one time, great place, city center nice two bed, I only moved out because the pool wasn't child friendly when the kids came in the summer.

And we got it at a good price but the ex never did manage to rent it out. Best one was actually the house i got in Horizon Hills, doubled my money, but it as a case of perfect timing.

Berw said:

One issue all the retirement visas insist on a medical insurance, which can be difficult to get at 65+ unless you are an existing customer.

- 100% - this catches out so many people, especially those in Perm employment with company policies and suddenly end up on their uppers when they retire. David, if you want can recommend a good broker here in Singapore than can make sure you have a useful insurance policy that also meets the requirements of these visa's. I believe even Thailand is planning on implementing this.

[alfaman]

XJSJohn said:

Berw said:

Problem with Iskander is it is not sustainable, looking at Chinese customers and the Chinese banks aren't to interested to loan, and Johor, Im there as i write this its a dump, weekend is full of drunken Singaporeans.

Oi, we resemble that comment - but yes, it is basically the new Chinese suburbs of Singapore, but the more SG and MY play silly buggers with borders etc the less viable it becomes.

Berw said:

I rented in the same condo as Xks owned in at one time, great place, city center nice two bed, I only moved out because the pool wasn't child friendly when the kids came in the summer.

And we got it at a good price but the ex never did manage to rent it out. Best one was actually the house i got in Horizon Hills, doubled my money, but it as a case of perfect timing.

Berw said:

One issue all the retirement visas insist on a medical insurance, which can be difficult to get at 65+ unless you are an existing customer.

- 100% - this catches out so many people, especially those in Perm employment with company policies and suddenly end up on their uppers when they retire. David, if you want can recommend a good broker here in Singapore than can make sure you have a useful insurance policy that also meets the requirements of these visa's. I believe even Thailand is planning on implementing this.

Very useful to know about the health insurance requirement - had not realized that.

Funny - I went to a sales pitch for buying large plots at Leisure Farm (next to JB) about 5 years ago ... how you could get a Hollywood size mansion built for about $1.5m -2m ... price of condo in SG. I wasn’t hooked - couldn’t see there was much of a liquid market for 8,000 SG foot ‘southfork’ In JB.

I reckon the plots have been flipped around for 15 years with very little actually getting built (at LF). JB has little appeal for me to be honest... like a crappy suburb of Singapore with no SG residency.

... have applied for a role in KL ... so will see how that goes ...

[XJSJohn]

alfaman said:

Funny - I went to a sales pitch for buying large plots at Leisure Farm (next to JB) about 5 years ago ... how you could get a Hollywood size mansion built for about $1.5m -2m ... price of condo in SG. I wasn’t hooked - couldn’t see there was much of a liquid market for 8,000 SG foot ‘southfork’ In JB.

I reckon the plots have been flipped around for 15 years with very little actually getting built (at LF). JB has little appeal for me to be honest... like a crappy suburb of Singapore with no SG residency.

... have applied for a role in KL ... so will see how that goes ...

Leisure Farm was always going to be a big strech, those that have money to buy that in JB can probably already afford something nice in SG.

Horizon Hills was nice to start with until the place got taken over by the Singaporean's ... horrific thought to stay, great opportunity to sell.

[alfaman]

Agree with the comments on leisure farm- I think a lot of people would rather live in a nice prime location condo in central singapore - or converted shophouse in Joo Chiat area ..

Than mansion in JB area.

( and I’d prefer a decent flat in London to a massive house in Hartlepool ...)

[anonymous-user]

Yesterday the press announced that Malaysia would be opening the Mmh2 retirment visa for new applicants sone, only awaiting cabinet approval of the new terms.
Looks like the only condition if your over 50 is to deposit 150,000 RM around 30k pounds into an interest earning deposit account.
I'm told that there is no longer the right to import a car duty free, and the insistance on expensive medical cover had been dropped.
It's a good deal because as a resident you only pay tax on money make in Malaysia, you will be able to work 20 hours a week.

[ggdrew]

some great information on this little thread... Thanks

Our home is on the Downs in Sussex and we arrived in KL for a 3yr freelance contract in April '21 as I'm managing a new power station project near Port Klang West Port. We have worked in MY & SG previously and are looking at our options as we are mid-late 50's.

The HSBC manager in Mont Kiara tried to get a good nose around our options with our retirement funds when we opened an a/c so we did start to give some thought about possibilities here.

I first came here in the mid-90's with YTL doing a power plant at Paka on the East coast in Tengganu state. The country was buzzing those Mahatir days and rise of Petronas, new Proton cars, Vision2020, Sepang airport & F1 etc. Shah Alam race track was buzzing with car and bike track sessions for peanuts - it got me thinking I could dismantle the Caterham and get it in under the companies 1/2-ton personal shipping allowance...

Things are a bit flat now in comparison - the buzz has gone as has Shah Alam circuit, but its still a liveable place, esp. around nice parts of KL. A lot more Bumi-sation and more Islamisation for sure.

Anyhow, I'm rambling-out-loud. Good food-for-thought you guys have given - thanks again

Edited by ggdrew on Monday 9th August 17:43

[anonymous-user]

Hi, Retiring is not so good after last Thursday, you need a 1/4 Million US$ in a local bank, looked up for 5 years and a pension of 120K US4 per annum. But there is aback lash against that so we'll see if it will change this week, or even today when the PM changes.

Shah Alam and Johor, are well gone but lots going on at Sepang, actually more now F1 is gone. MSF is the local series, 60 car grids, its a bit of a shambles but good fun, Malaysian Super Bike is a good weekend, you can get paddock passes for these on the day.

KL is a great place for classic cars, as maintenance is so cheap, there are some great deals around if you look, and take you time, a decent classic mechanic will be about 7 pound an hour. I'm in to classic racing at Sepang, and if I race next year your welcome to come along a few people on here have been.

I live in BB area of KL so I'm up for a pint when we can.

[quigonjay]

So just day dreaming of retiring to somewhere warm (as you do), ended up looking at property in Thailand, seems quite reasonable, at least away from the big cities, but the car prices - what the actual fk? Prices at the lower end of the market do not seem so bad but it seems the higher up you go the gap widens between our prices and their prices - cheapest 911 (996) about £100k, cheapest McLaren (570/650) about £300k, cheapest Ferrari 488 about £500k, no wonder scooters/mopeds are so popular

[XJSJohn]

quigonjay said:

So just day dreaming of retiring to somewhere warm (as you do), ended up looking at property in Thailand, seems quite reasonable, at least away from the big cities, but the car prices - what the actual fk? Prices at the lower end of the market do not seem so bad but it seems the higher up you go the gap widens between our prices and their prices - cheapest 911 (996) about £100k, cheapest McLaren (570/650) about £300k, cheapest Ferrari 488 about £500k, no wonder scooters/mopeds are so popular

Thailand (and malaysia, indonesia etc) have large car manufacturing industries, in order to "protect" those industries, anything imported from outside ASEAN has a high import duty.

Have a look at Singapore if you really want a shock.

RE property - "owning" property in Thailand, again much like the rest of SE Asia is not so simple for non-citizens.

As an aside, amusing that Alfaman who started the thread is still working on his retirement plan

[rodericb]

The import duties on new (and old) cars in Thailand and Indonesia is significant - like ~100% type of significant. A Toyota GR Yaris in $AUD60k in Australia and that car in TH is $AUD160k. But even the locally built cars are expensive. The Corolla Cross in TH, which is locally built, costs more in TH than the same in Australia and the AUDM models are built in Japan. But second hand locally built cars (or those subject to low duty) are pretty cheap as cars do depreciate in TH like they do everywhere else in the world.

Singapore prices are eye watering due to the need to have a Certificate of Entitlement (CoE) which is a permit to own that vehicle for ten years and there's also a thing called the Additional Registration Fee which doubles the price of a car at minimum but you do get rebated some of it when you deregister the car within ten years. This is in addition to whatever duties you pay (20%) and ;some chunky annual charges.

[XJSJohn]

rodericb said:

The import duties on new (and old) cars in Thailand and Indonesia is significant - like ~100% type of significant. A Toyota GR Yaris in $AUD60k in Australia and that car in TH is $AUD160k. But even the locally built cars are expensive. The Corolla Cross in TH, which is locally built, costs more in TH than the same in Australia and the AUDM models are built in Japan. But second hand locally built cars (or those subject to low duty) are pretty cheap as cars do depreciate in TH like they do everywhere else in the world.

Singapore prices are eye watering due to the need to have a Certificate of Entitlement (CoE) which is a permit to own that vehicle for ten years and there's also a thing called the Additional Registration Fee which doubles the price of a car at minimum but you do get rebated some of it when you deregister the car within ten years. This is in addition to whatever duties you pay (20%) and ;some chunky annual charges.

yup, singapore is 130% + 20% port handling fees, plus 10% GST, then you have to bid on a COE for 10 years, then you have to pay annual road tax too .......

In both Indonesia and Thailand, private import is all about how big a brown envelope you are willing to hand over (and even then, you may not get the car properly imported and still run the risk of it being impounded.)

Indonesia, road tax is based on the original value of the vehicle but they do give some discounts for age, my X5 there is down to around £500 / year now, was £900 / year when i first got it 6 years ago.

I never actually bothered paying road tax on my Thai cars, just paid the police some coffee money each time i was stopped.

Thailand, there are tax breaks for various types of cars, like the King Cab pick ups