More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t
Discussion
TonyRPH said:
I would wager that your MF A3.2 (even before recapping) likely sounds better or equal to the NAD.
Also - £600 seems a lot for a recap, as it's unlikely that the entire amp will need recapping.
My advice would be to see if there are any recommended capacitors, and then find a competent electrician/electronics tech to do the service. There’s no magic involved at all. A really good guy would test everything and only replace what needs replacing. Also - £600 seems a lot for a recap, as it's unlikely that the entire amp will need recapping.
The Naim factory charge a fortune too now, but there’s one recommended service centre in the U.K. and a few aftermarket businesses that charge way less. Maybe MF have something similar, ask on a brand specific forum?
A mate did my power amp for a couple of bottles of wine.
TonyRPH said:
Harry Flashman said:
On the amp thing, I was looking at going Class D (NAD C298 to match my streamer), but I do like my old Musical Fidelity A3.2, that can be recapped and comprehensively upgraded for £600.
Literally no idea if the latter is worth doing?
I would wager that your MF A3.2 (even before recapping) likely sounds better or equal to the NAD.Literally no idea if the latter is worth doing?
Also - £600 seems a lot for a recap, as it's unlikely that the entire amp will need recapping.
It is a power amp though so is not directly comparable. Would be better getting an integrated amp, with the same amo technology.
£600 to change a few electrolytic capacitors is a silly cost.
SteveKTMer said:
This. It didn't extract all the data and what is did extract was often mixed with random digital noise. The early DACs did try to deal with this but most of them weren't very successful, hence the usual tinny, zingy sibilance that people often objected to with early CD systems. It did get better quite quickly.
4x better was salesman nonsense.
Eh ?4x better was salesman nonsense.
'Random digital noise' ?
there was a problem with the DAC clock being recovered from the data stream and as such affected by variations in the disk speed, is that what your meaning ?
They did extract all the data, though the early Phillips DAC was only 14 bits for a 16 bit steam (though with cleverness, that was worked around), so the change to a PLL & inclusion of a 16 DAC would have made things more than 4x better
Of course, they then went 1 bit.
Edited by Gary C on Saturday 25th February 09:53
LOTS of misunderstanding growing, following someone's statement about mixing with random digital noise, in a DAC.
What is actually happening as called adding dither.
If you want to understand, the following description is acceptable.
https://www.soundguys.com/what-is-dither-23700/
It can be summarised by a statement from the same link.
Dither is the introduction of random noise (to the LSB) to reduce harmonic quantization distortion.
....... Part in brackets added by me to make it correct.
I hope this helps.
What is actually happening as called adding dither.
If you want to understand, the following description is acceptable.
https://www.soundguys.com/what-is-dither-23700/
It can be summarised by a statement from the same link.
Dither is the introduction of random noise (to the LSB) to reduce harmonic quantization distortion.
....... Part in brackets added by me to make it correct.
I hope this helps.
Harry Flashman said:
The MF is warm. A bit too warm, actually, with my Sonus Faber speakers. It's especially noticeable on electronic music, which I listen to quite a bit.
Was also thinking about just getting the integrated NAD M33, and selling the C658 streamer.
The NAD M33 looks excellent. Here is a detailed review. I have just checked the measurements section for performance and there are no flaws.Was also thinking about just getting the integrated NAD M33, and selling the C658 streamer.
Stereophile is probably the best publication for technical reviews.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-se...
911hope said:
The NAD M33 looks excellent. Here is a detailed review. I have just checked the measurements section for performance and there are no flaws.
Stereophile is probably the best publication for technical reviews.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-se...
Amir@ audio science review seemed to like it.Stereophile is probably the best publication for technical reviews.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-masters-se...
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php...
Harry Flashman said:
The MF is warm. A bit too warm, actually, with my Sonus Faber speakers. It's especially noticeable on electronic music, which I listen to quite a bit.
Was also thinking about just getting the integrated NAD M33, and selling the C658 streamer.
Without getting into amp topology, dither, distortion and measurement down to 0.00000001% I’ll simply state that one of the best sounding systems I’ve heard for ‘electronic’ music (in all its guises) was a Krell CD player, Krell integrated amp driving Kef 3.2 floorstanders.Was also thinking about just getting the integrated NAD M33, and selling the C658 streamer.
Adding a little to the cost of a ‘service’ the MF should get you a KAV 300i integrated - they pop up on eBay from time to time.
I’m not sure which SF speakers you have but lots of owners of their earlier designs reported excellent results with (granted, a bit further up the food chain) Krell pre/powers. The 300i shares a lot of the sound of the big Krell stuff without costing £tens of thousands.
legzr1 said:
Without getting into amp topology, dither, distortion and measurement down to 0.00000001% I’ll simply state that one of the best sounding systems I’ve heard for ‘electronic’ music (in all its guises) was a Krell CD player, Krell integrated amp driving Kef 3.2 floorstanders.
Adding a little to the cost of a ‘service’ the MF should get you a KAV 300i integrated - they pop up on eBay from time to time.
I’m not sure which SF speakers you have but lots of owners of their earlier designs reported excellent results with (granted, a bit further up the food chain) Krell pre/powers. The 300i shares a lot of the sound of the big Krell stuff without costing £tens of thousands.
It just goes to show subjective Hifi is as I have never heard any Krell amp I like!!!Adding a little to the cost of a ‘service’ the MF should get you a KAV 300i integrated - they pop up on eBay from time to time.
I’m not sure which SF speakers you have but lots of owners of their earlier designs reported excellent results with (granted, a bit further up the food chain) Krell pre/powers. The 300i shares a lot of the sound of the big Krell stuff without costing £tens of thousands.
kayc said:
It just goes to show subjective Hifi is as I have never heard any Krell amp I like!!!
Absolutely.I believe there is no absolute right or wrong but there is definitely a ‘oh, wow, loving this…’. I think I mentioned this on this forum but, many years ago, I walked into a dealers to be greeted to the sounds of a Krell KRc-3 pre, FPB 600 and B&W 800Ns - way beyond my means but got close with a 300CD, 300i and Kef 3.2 at a fraction of the cost.
Tastes in music change, ears get older and my Krell gear is long gone (ironically I’m back to MF but finally managed to get the B&W 800s too) but I have fond memories of the Krell duo hammering out Infected Mushroom…impact, depth,slam and clarity.
The beauty of buying used at reasonable cost is the ability to listen in your system, in your home with your music - if it doesn’t suit simply move on a little or no cost.
Reviews, graphs and measurements have their place but nothing really replaces hands on listening in the room where it has to live and work.
legzr1 said:
The beauty of buying used at reasonable cost is the ability to listen in your system, in your home with your music - if it doesn’t suit simply move on a little or no cost.
Reviews, graphs and measurements have their place but nothing really replaces hands on listening in the room where it has to live and work.
And you can take lots of time over it, listen in a relaxed way, and try to be honest about it. Reviews, graphs and measurements have their place but nothing really replaces hands on listening in the room where it has to live and work.
legzr1 said:
....
The beauty of buying used at reasonable cost is the ability to listen in your system, in your home with your music - if it doesn’t suit simply move on a little or no cost.
Reviews, graphs and measurements have their place but nothing really replaces hands on listening in the room where it has to live and work.
The downside is you never know if used sounds as good as new.The beauty of buying used at reasonable cost is the ability to listen in your system, in your home with your music - if it doesn’t suit simply move on a little or no cost.
Reviews, graphs and measurements have their place but nothing really replaces hands on listening in the room where it has to live and work.
911hope said:
Tony1963 said:
When people start to prefer a sub-£10k integrated to £100k+ of pre amp, power amps and power supplies, there’s something wrong. (Or right!?)
Interesting question posed here.Starting with The proposition of a £10k integrated amp. What you are really buying for this is something that has a bill of materials of less than $1k, with the most expensive item being the cabinet.
It can still have the best of everything inside and that bit is more expensive because of the small volumes the brand (or their Manufacturer) buys in.
Having the pre and power amps close together in the same box on the same power system is the correct thing to do, since a major Must is the have a good ground plane, which cannot be achieved is 2 separate boxes, with separate power supplies and separated by 2m of power cables.
The reason brands make separates systems is to sell people who don't understand more boxes and make money.
Unfortunately people believe what they see and get fooled by bigger is better.
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