Do you still believe in good hi-fi?
Discussion
10% is only a guideline in hi-fi, not for cables but for "accessories" - so this includes cables, speaker stands, racks (and some even consider headphones an "accessory" as well). Try spending £1000 on a hifi and getting decent speaker stands, rack, cables and headphones for only £100. We all have contesting opinions on this but its only a guideline. You'd be shocked but some customers value cables more than others and spend a lot more than 10% (ever heard of Nordost?) As the Hi-Fi Manifesto says though, make up your own mind!
Back on topic, we'd love to heard from others on here who still have a passion for hi-fi on what they think of our manifesto? (feel free to post a pic of your system)
Back on topic, we'd love to heard from others on here who still have a passion for hi-fi on what they think of our manifesto? (feel free to post a pic of your system)
passionforsound said:
10% is only a guideline in hi-fi, not for cables but for "accessories" - so this includes cables, speaker stands, racks (and some even consider headphones an "accessory" as well). Try spending £1000 on a hifi and getting decent speaker stands, rack, cables and headphones for only £100. We all have contesting opinions on this but its only a guideline. You'd be shocked but some customers value cables more than others and spend a lot more than 10% (ever heard of Nordost?) As the Hi-Fi Manifesto says though, make up your own mind!
Back on topic, we'd love to heard from others on here who still have a passion for hi-fi on what they think of our manifesto? (feel free to post a pic of your system)
The manifesto is interesting and I agree with much of it; particularly with the speaker being the most important component in the system. I would add that the room and location of the speaker / listener in the room, relative to nodes, anti-nodes, early reflections etc etc all have a bigger influence on final sound than source components, amps, and 'accessories'. Back on topic, we'd love to heard from others on here who still have a passion for hi-fi on what they think of our manifesto? (feel free to post a pic of your system)
Crackie said:
The manifesto is interesting and I agree with much of it; particularly with the speaker being the most important component in the system. I would add that the room and location of the speaker / listener in the room, relative to nodes, anti-nodes, early reflections etc etc all have a bigger influence on final sound than source components, amps, and 'accessories'.
Agreed - however that doesn't mean we can just forget about the chain upstream from the speakers, even when you're not living in a sound studio it's quite easy to pick out differences between all of those...900T-R said:
Crackie said:
The manifesto is interesting and I agree with much of it; particularly with the speaker being the most important component in the system. I would add that the room and location of the speaker / listener in the room, relative to nodes, anti-nodes, early reflections etc etc all have a bigger influence on final sound than source components, amps, and 'accessories'.
Agreed - however that doesn't mean we can just forget about the chain upstream from the speakers, even when you're not living in a sound studio it's quite easy to pick out differences between all of those...I applaud Passionforsound's manifesto; it might help some people enjoy music more but I think the manifesto should also make it clear that many listeners are likely to achieve the biggest improvements in their systems perceived sound quality if they also understood more about the benefits of nearfield listening, reducing early reflections, optimising speaker placement etc. The difference between doing these things well and badly can be 30 or more decibels, and that's why I think these factors should come near the top of the hierarchy.
Edited by Crackie on Tuesday 29th July 23:32
Crackie said:
I agree we shouldn't neglect any of the upstream components but most would agree there is a system hierarchy. Clearly different people will have different views upon what that hierarchy is; things have certainly changed a bit as digital has evolved. Source was always king when I was younger; it was easy to understand why well engineered products like LP12s sounded superior to less sophisticated alternatives. Extremely good digital sources and amps are now available for very little money; the speaker is now the most influential component in the system.
I applaud Passionforsound's manifesto; it might help some people enjoy music more but I think the manifesto should also make it clear that many listeners are likely to achieve the biggest improvements in their systems perceived sound quality if they also understood more about the benefits of nearfield listening, reducing early reflections, optimising speaker placement etc. The difference between doing these things well and badly can be 30 or more decibels, and that's why I think these factors should come near the top of the hierarchy.
Thanks for your contribution, agreed on the aspects of room correction you've suggested. Unfortunately in most cases when we recommend taking these steps to anyone who isn't already an audiophile, it often falls on flat ears and customers think room correction is hocus pocus - until we show them some before and after examples. I think hesitation comes down to not wanting massive bass traps and ugly panels on the wall etc, but in most cases (and some installs we've done), you can get them covered with artwork and they just end up looking like canvasses.I applaud Passionforsound's manifesto; it might help some people enjoy music more but I think the manifesto should also make it clear that many listeners are likely to achieve the biggest improvements in their systems perceived sound quality if they also understood more about the benefits of nearfield listening, reducing early reflections, optimising speaker placement etc. The difference between doing these things well and badly can be 30 or more decibels, and that's why I think these factors should come near the top of the hierarchy.
Edited by Crackie on Tuesday 29th July 23:32
The easiest thing everyone can do with minimal effort though is:
1) Check speaker positioning as you've suggested - distance from wall/side surfaces, angle and make sure spikes/stands are level
2) Make sure carpet is under/in front of the speakers (a rug will do if you have wooden floors!)
3) Have as many soft furnishings and books in the room as possible, ideally with thick curtains rather than blinds
passionforsound said:
Thanks for your contribution, agreed on the aspects of room correction you've suggested. Unfortunately in most cases when we recommend taking these steps to anyone who isn't already an audiophile, it often falls on flat ears and customers think room correction is hocus pocus - until we show them some before and after examples. I think hesitation comes down to not wanting massive bass traps and ugly panels on the wall etc, but in most cases (and some installs we've done), you can get them covered with artwork and they just end up looking like canvasses.
The easiest thing everyone can do with minimal effort though is:
1) Check speaker positioning as you've suggested - distance from wall/side surfaces, angle and make sure spikes/stands are level
2) Make sure carpet is under/in front of the speakers (a rug will do if you have wooden floors!)
3) Have as many soft furnishings and books in the room as possible, ideally with thick curtains rather than blinds
Agreed that most are not interested in bass traps, absorbers, diffusers and the like. I wasn't advocating the purchase of bass traps etc, but trying instead to reduce the impact of early reflections from side walls. The benefits can easily be tried out at zero cost. The easiest thing everyone can do with minimal effort though is:
1) Check speaker positioning as you've suggested - distance from wall/side surfaces, angle and make sure spikes/stands are level
2) Make sure carpet is under/in front of the speakers (a rug will do if you have wooden floors!)
3) Have as many soft furnishings and books in the room as possible, ideally with thick curtains rather than blinds
1. Increasing toe in so that the speaker axis crosses in front of the listener.
2. Reducing the distance between the speakers.
3. Listening as close to the speakers as is practical.
Some people will have done the above already and understand the benefits but in my experience the majority of people either don't know about them, can't be bother to try them, aren't allowed to try due to WAF and consequently haven't tried them out. A quick look at the images in the various Hi-Fi threads shows that the sound of many PHers' systems is likely to improve if their speakers' position was changed slightly.
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 31st July 11:05
Emeye said:
Interesting - I had never heard of Qobuz. Hopefully they offer a trial as their catalogue may be limited. Also, I need to find out if they do an offline mode for when I am in the car.
They do do a month free trial. There's a noticeable improvement from the Spotify 320kbps Ogg Vorbis so worth trying out on the free trial to see if you like the difference and feel it worth it (I do personally!). I've kept the Spotify for the same reason of using it in the car although not sure if Qobuz has an offline version now. Catalogue for Qobuz is pretty good, nr Spotify standards generally.Alucidnation said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Yes I could have wasted their time and then gone and bought the stuff online etc. etc.
In 1997?I remember buying stuff online in 1997 - especially, at the time, music CD's from the States which weren't available in the UK at the time.
But then again - I have always been a bit of an early adopter of new technology...
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