Speaker system a little pricey?

[legzr1]

You post an image of Harbeths then ask if you're getting old?

It's interesting that their (rather vocal) designer has gone against the grain and ignored massive inert cabinets with massive bracing in favour of thin sidewalls damped with bitumen that almost sing along with the tune.

Never heard a pair as most owners don't seem to listen to the same genres of music as I do but there's plenty of room on this planet for different ideas.

[BIRMA]

I have friends who spend outrageous sums of money on speakers, one has a set of Ear speakers (that's the manufacturer not their position) but they are real hifi fanatics who go to the lengths of having a separate electrical spur put in so as not to have any noise in the supply.
You do get to a point where I find it very difficult to hear any great difference between a system costing £20K and one costing £50K perhaps I spent too long being too close to rock bands speaker cabinets in my youth.
I've had these speakers for many years now and being a rock/blues fan find them as good as anything I've ever heard although a pair of Focal Utopias did impress me a while back but at £20K+ a pair I can't see me changing my current ones.
Here's a photo of them they are 5 feet high and the cabinet is shaped like a boat hull.

[legzr1]

That mid driver reminds of the ones fitted to Revel Salon and Studios - very classy.
What are they?

A separate spur from the mains sounds extreme but if you're using anything with a wallwart SMPS transformer they can be terrible for adding noise to the mains - when you pay a lot of money for those silent noise floors it can ruin your system.

In my old place I was plagued with thermostats in the freezer and central heating causing all sorts of issues - rather than fitting a spur I sold up and bought elsewhere (gaining a bigger garage into the bargain!)

[BIRMA]

They are a special order JBL they replaced my JBL 100’s or Century’s as they were known. Now powered by Bow Technology’s ZZ1 and ZZ8 amp and cd which replaced my faithful Krell amp and cd. The speakers are biased toward rock music for sure.

[Crackie]

gizlaroc said:

Crackie said:

Agreed.

After years and years involved working in the Hi-Fi industry, and with speaker cabinets in particular, I like the influence of cabinets themselves less and less as time passes. Big cabinets cause big problems. Its interesting that the 2 speakers you're enjoying are small, well engineered bookshelf speakers and you've let the big Meridians go.

Most of the really special speakers I've heard have used small cabinets. The big speakers that work have very well engineered cabinets ( B&W matrix, Magico, Dunlavy, Gryphon Audio, Marten, Avalon, Evolution, Wilson ) or better still they have no conventional cabinets at all. ( Horns, electrostatics, ribbons & open baffles )

On the subject of expensive speakers http://www.milliondollarstereos.com/speakerlist.ph...

To be fair I love the Meridian sound, their speakers have always impressed me. the main/only reason I moved them on was they were in the TV room and never got used properly, mostly Sky News.
We redid our sitting room and that has gone back to where I listen to music.

Mind you, the Harbeths are thin walled, based on the classic BBC LS3/5A monitors, but the cabinet gives things like piano and guitars an uncanny 'lifelike/in the room' sound. So hearing cabinets is not always a bad thing.

They remind me very much of my old Dunlavys, but they have a bit more warnth then the Dunnies, which considering how open and detailed they sound, I find amazing.

The advantage of thin walled damped cabinets is they don't store energy the way big heavy cabinets do. Thin walls are noisy but release their energy quickly and can have a euphonic colouration that's appealing. Storing and then releasing the energy later is not a good thing.

Some designers deliberately use the output from the cabinet wall as part of the overall sound output. ( http://www.bosendorfer-audio.co.uk/ & possibly Harbeth )

Do you remember Podium Sound ? Superb with guitar and piano. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipme...

Edited by Crackie on Saturday 16th December 10:41

[legzr1]

BIRMA said:

They are a special order JBL they replaced my JBL 100’s or Century’s as they were known. Now powered by Bow Technology’s ZZ1 and ZZ8 amp and cd which replaced my faithful Krell amp and cd. The speakers are biased toward rock music for sure.

Call b/S if you like but JBL was going to be my guess based on the cabinet shape!

Funky looking front end too - are those the kit with the weird looking 'wand' remote that cost as much as a medium spec Technics CD player?

Was it the 300i and 300 CD you had from Krell?

Edited by legzr1 on Friday 15th December 11:40

[Biker 1]

I had a look at these mega-expensive mains cables, like the Nordost £25 k jobby. Assuming the quality will be only as good as the weakest link, why not just replace the mains socket with a junction box, then wire a piece of 2.5mm T & E from this, directly into your amplifier/stereo power supply? Honestly, I just can't believe someone would fall for this snake-oil st!

You could do quite a few stereos with this: https://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-6242y-twin-ear...

[Halmyre]

B17NNS said:

It's hi-fi. It's an industry riddled with snake oil and What-Hifi is built around it (they still insist they can hear differences in HDMI cables).

How about a £975 USB cable

https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/vertere-acoustics...

Oh, and don't forget your £25 13a fuse...

http://www.russandrews.com/13a-superfuse-mains-plu...

Should all go nicely with those £700k speakers.

Thing is, if it's important for digital accuracy to have cables made of unobtainium, how come financial institutions that move gigatrillions of money around can cope perfectly well with interconnects made from bog standard Cat-5 cable at 30 pence per meter?

[hyphen]

legzr1 said:

BIRMA said:

They are a special order JBL they replaced my JBL 100’s or Century’s as they were known. Now powered by Bow Technology’s ZZ1 and ZZ8 amp and cd which replaced my faithful Krell amp and cd. The speakers are biased toward rock music for sure.

Call b/S if you like but JBL was going to be my guess based on the cabinet shape!

Funky looking front end too - are those the kit with the weird looking 'wand' remote that cost as much as a medium spec Technics CD player?

Was it the 300i and 300 CD you had from Krell?

Edited by legzr1 on Friday 15th December 11:40

JBL seem very underrated for some reason in domestic circles.

I gather their home cinema professional lines are rather good, and their sub's also seem to be gaining some traction (The UK M&K distributor recently tried to stop one installer/dealer selling JBL subs alongside M&K subs, he refused and chose to drop M&K)

[gizlaroc]

legzr1 said:

You post an image of Harbeths then ask if you're getting old?

Haha, very true.

legzr1 said:

It's interesting that their (rather vocal) designer has gone against the grain and ignored massive inert cabinets with massive bracing in favour of thin sidewalls damped with bitumen that almost sing along with the tune.

But we are starting to see a revival of thin walled, BBC style designs, Spendor are doing incredibly well with their Classic series, Harbeth are doing the best they have for years.
I think one of the main problems is, the to do them right is expensive, the entry point means most simply won't experience them.

Same with going back to single binding posts, only the really high end stuff where active crossovers and multiple amps might be used are really seeing dual or triple posts, or strangely on the cheaper end.

legzr1 said:

Never heard a pair as most owners don't seem to listen to the same genres of music as I do but there's plenty of room on this planet for different ideas.

Well they are based on studio monitors, that's sort of the point of them, they do every genre of music well.

I'm mainly electronic, with a bit of classical and jazz thrown in...

This shows page 1 of my most played in Roon...



The only style of music I don't really like is rock, but the guys who do listen reckon the Harbeths are superb as the seperation of instruments when a lot is going on is unparalleled.

I know of couple of guys who work in studios and they use nothing but PMC, Geithain and Harbeth, never heard the Geithain speakers, but the guy I bought the Harbeths from said he was doing so to try and pair of Geithain RL906's? I think it was he said.

They are worth having a listen to if you get the chance.

Problem with them is, they won't grab you in a demo like many are designed to do.

[Crackie]

hyphen said:

Question for both of you in light of the cabinet mentions above, what are you opinions on the Q Acoustics Concept 500?

AVForums are banging on about them having 'a unique cabinet' and being a genuine technical breakthrough, and handed it awards for product of the year. So what do you think of these new design principles being touted, is it impressive?

I've not heard the Concept 500 but have just read the 'Choice' review; its a lot of speaker for the money. If Karl-Heinz Fink has been involved in its design / development I'm sure it will be good.

The Concept 500 uses constrained layer damping in its cabinet; this is nothing new and has been around for 20+ years; Q acoustics have trademarked their version and called it Gelcore. Their 3 layer version might be unique, not sure tbh. CLD makes a huge audible difference when done well. The Q Acoustics design team appear to have brought together several well established ideas into one package at a decent price. KEF, B&W, PMC, ATC all do this too though.

For £4000 a pair these would be on my shortlist
or these https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-https://w...

And these
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/kh-o-300d-pro... Klein and Hummel pioneered active speakers back in the late 60s. Still a benchmark today but not too well known in the UK.

Edited by Crackie on Saturday 16th December 10:47

[BIRMA]

legzr1 said:

Call b/S if you like but JBL was going to be my guess based on the cabinet shape!

Funky looking front end too - are those the kit with the weird looking 'wand' remote that cost as much as a medium spec Technics CD player?

Was it the 300i and 300 CD you had from Krell?

Edited by legzr1 on Friday 15th December 11:40

Yes there was the wand and I didn’t bother buying one and spent the money on interconnects and speaker cable. Yes the Krell was the 300 series fantastic sound but the Bow gear is noticeably a step up

[BIRMA]

hyphen said:

JBL seem very underrated for some reason in domestic circles.

I gather their home cinema professional lines are rather good, and their sub's also seem to be gaining some traction (The UK M&K distributor recently tried to stop one installer/dealer selling JBL subs alongside M&K subs, he refused and chose to drop M&K)

The other thing to remember is that nearly every studio used the commercial version of the JBL Century as monitors for the final mix on nearly every bit of pop in the 60’s 70’s and 80’s so they must have been doing something right not so sure what happened recently although they do still make some very exotic expensive special order speakers these days

[B17NNS]

Biker 1 said:

I had a look at these mega-expensive mains cables, like the Nordost £25 k jobby. Assuming the quality will be only as good as the weakest link

You're quite right. A good quality plug and socket is just fine. A worthwhile upgrade for not a vast amount of cost (in the audiophile world at least) is as mentioned above. Have a sparky run a dedicated circuit for your kit from the board. Clean power isolated from all the other appliances in your house doesn't need 'conditioning'.

Halmyre said:

Thing is, if it's important for digital accuracy to have cables made of unobtainium, how come financial institutions that move gigatrillions of money around can cope perfectly well with interconnects made from bog standard Cat-5 cable at 30 pence per meter?

Precisely. Until it hit's the DAC it's ones and zeros. It's right or wrong. Any USB cable that meets the spec will work just fine.

[Biker 1]

B17NNS said:

Biker 1 said:

I had a look at these mega-expensive mains cables, like the Nordost £25 k jobby. Assuming the quality will be only as good as the weakest link

You're quite right. A good quality plug and socket is just fine. A worthwhile upgrade for not a vast amount of cost (in the audiophile world at least) is as mentioned above. Have a sparky run a dedicated circuit for your kit from the board. Clean power isolated from all the other appliances in your house doesn't need 'conditioning'.

I even wonder whether that's going a little far. I am happy to be corrected, but the first part of the power supply in most kit is the transformer, which effectively isolates the mains from the internal gubbins anyway....
As for digital interconnects, such as HDMI, CAT5/6, optical etc: its all 1 or 0 until the DAC as you say. Never noticed any difference in cables.

[anonymous-user]

There will always be people with money so there will be marketing departments making up all sorts of promises to bolster the bottom line.

Difficult bit is working the sweet spot of price v performance.

I recenttly upgraded to some Focal 936 speakers, big improvement over the existing ones and at a price I was happy with i.e. ex-demo.

[NorthDave]

I was listening to a system (admittedly surround sound) on Tuesday evening - £350,000. It was amazing and definitely wasn't snake oil.

If you are a billionaire (which a decent portion of our clients are) then dropping this much just isn't an issue so why not?

We have also done systems with £5k USB leads - the system itself was a super expensive headphone system - you just arent going to connect that up with a maplin £5 cable. Does it make a difference? Probably not but the leads should be of a certain quality and at that level you hear every little detail.

[bristolracer]

Love threads like this.....
Written on a forum where people would completely defend somebody dropping £2 million on an old Ferrari when a new £30k golf would completely outclass it in every respect.

There are a lot of very very wealthy people out there who will buy these speakers without a second thought.
They wouldn’t be manufactured if there was no market.

[B17NNS]

NorthDave said:

We have also done systems with £5k USB leads

I'm sorry, but you just about lost all credibility there

If you sold it, recommended it or didn't politely advise your client against the perceived benefit then sadly you're part of the problem.

By all means buy an attractive looking USB cable if it's on show. But the £5 Maplin cable will do EXACTLY the same job.

[Crackie]

Biker 1 said:

I even wonder whether that's going a little far. I am happy to be corrected, but the first part of the power supply in most kit is the transformer, which effectively isolates the mains from the internal gubbins anyway....

The voltage waveform induced into the transformers secondary winding is a mirror of what is seen in the primary. The voltage will be lower in the secondary depending on the turns ratio but any noise on the primary mains side is induced into the secondary coil too.