Speaker recommendtion £1500 max
Discussion
Haven't got much to add, but unless you have a very highly resolving system, you'll get more back for you buck from better speakers than better cable. There are some great afordable cables such as the Van Damme. If you want to try out more exotic cables, take a look at used cables as they generally offer big saving and can be moved on if you don't see the benefit.
Mr_Yogi said:
Haven't got much to add, but unless you have a very highly resolving system, you'll get more back for you buck from better speakers than better cable.
Interesting...............what kind of very highly resolving system to you have in mind? i.e an example of when you get more back from your buck from better cable than better speakers.
maybe I worded that wrong. What I meant was that unless you have a high end system, IMHO you'll not see worthwhile benefits of posh cables. Better spend the money on better speakers. Good budget cables with better speakers will sound better than cheaper speakers with hundreds on £s worth of cables.Crackie said:
Confirmation bias and post purchase rationalisation are very hard at work with you aren't they? If you think that cables make a subjective difference and are worthwhile additions to your system, that is fine, you crack on. You're a happy punter and the shop that sold the cable to you is very happy indeed.
Actually quite the opposite, I was very happy that the speaker cable I owned and used was perfectly adequate. Then I listened to some alternatives (before I spent any money) and had my mind changed beyond any doubt. I then hunted around and luckily found some of my second choice cable “ex demo” online. If I could afford to go to Chord Sarum T I would, but that’s way out f my reach.
Regarding the statement in bold........If speaker cable is such a vital link in the chain then ask yourself this question; why do design & manufacturing teams at B&W, KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Meridian, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy care relatively little about which cable is used to connect their products to the driving amp; this is because they know that speaker cables' contribution to sound quality is negligible.
I’m guessing of course, but I would imagine that it has something to do with the fact that system balance as a whole is very important and speaker manufacturers don’t tend to make CD players, tuners, record decks, amps etc either - does this mean that these are of little importance either ?
why do the speaker ( and amp ) makers, invariably, not make/distribute cables?
See above.
I’m very happy to demonstrate the difference good cables make. I live right on one end of the Evo triangle and make decent coffee. If anyone wants to bring their budget cable over email me and I’m happy to oblige.Actually quite the opposite, I was very happy that the speaker cable I owned and used was perfectly adequate. Then I listened to some alternatives (before I spent any money) and had my mind changed beyond any doubt. I then hunted around and luckily found some of my second choice cable “ex demo” online. If I could afford to go to Chord Sarum T I would, but that’s way out f my reach.
Regarding the statement in bold........If speaker cable is such a vital link in the chain then ask yourself this question; why do design & manufacturing teams at B&W, KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Meridian, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy care relatively little about which cable is used to connect their products to the driving amp; this is because they know that speaker cables' contribution to sound quality is negligible.
I’m guessing of course, but I would imagine that it has something to do with the fact that system balance as a whole is very important and speaker manufacturers don’t tend to make CD players, tuners, record decks, amps etc either - does this mean that these are of little importance either ?
why do the speaker ( and amp ) makers, invariably, not make/distribute cables?
See above.
Oh, and the 10% “rule” for cable cost covers the entire system, not just the cost of the speakers.
Patrick1964 said:
Crackie said:
Confirmation bias and post purchase rationalisation are very hard at work with you aren't they? If you think that cables make a subjective difference and are worthwhile additions to your system, that is fine, you crack on. You're a happy punter and the shop that sold the cable to you is very happy indeed.
Actually quite the opposite, I was very happy that the speaker cable I owned and used was perfectly adequate. Then I listened to some alternatives (before I spent any money) and had my mind changed beyond any doubt. I then hunted around and luckily found some of my second choice cable “ex demo” online. If I could afford to go to Chord Sarum T I would, but that’s way out f my reach.
Regarding the statement in bold........If speaker cable is such a vital link in the chain then ask yourself this question; why do design & manufacturing teams at B&W, KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Meridian, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy care relatively little about which cable is used to connect their products to the driving amp; this is because they know that speaker cables' contribution to sound quality is negligible.
I’m guessing of course, but I would imagine that it has something to do with the fact that system balance as a whole is very important and speaker manufacturers don’t tend to make CD players, tuners, record decks, amps etc either - does this mean that these are of little importance either ?
why do the speaker ( and amp ) makers, invariably, not make/distribute cables?
See above.
I’m very happy to demonstrate the difference good cables make. I live right on one end of the Evo triangle and make decent coffee. If anyone wants to bring their budget cable over email me and I’m happy to oblige.Actually quite the opposite, I was very happy that the speaker cable I owned and used was perfectly adequate. Then I listened to some alternatives (before I spent any money) and had my mind changed beyond any doubt. I then hunted around and luckily found some of my second choice cable “ex demo” online. If I could afford to go to Chord Sarum T I would, but that’s way out f my reach.
Regarding the statement in bold........If speaker cable is such a vital link in the chain then ask yourself this question; why do design & manufacturing teams at B&W, KEF, Celestion, Mission, TDL, Meridian, Wharfedale, Acoustic Energy care relatively little about which cable is used to connect their products to the driving amp; this is because they know that speaker cables' contribution to sound quality is negligible.
I’m guessing of course, but I would imagine that it has something to do with the fact that system balance as a whole is very important and speaker manufacturers don’t tend to make CD players, tuners, record decks, amps etc either - does this mean that these are of little importance either ?
why do the speaker ( and amp ) makers, invariably, not make/distribute cables?
See above.
Oh, and the 10% “rule” for cable cost covers the entire system, not just the cost of the speakers.
legzr1 said:
‘Impact’ and ‘difference’ means a change in character does it not?
If not, could you describe what ‘differences’ your cables are able to demonstrate?
I know I’m wasting my internet breath here, as you’ve clearly already decided that I’m wrong. If not, could you describe what ‘differences’ your cables are able to demonstrate?
I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
Patrick1964 said:
I know I’m wasting my internet breath here, as you’ve clearly already decided that I’m wrong.
I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
Poor cables, as I understand them, subtract something from the signal by use of resistance and capacitance. The shameful thing is that the cables that do this are the ‘exotic’ stuff made of hybrids of carbon and copper.I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
No cable can add anything.
A competently designed cable can pass a signal perfectly adequately and are available from 50p/metre. No need to spend much more unless you want to spend money that could be better used on source/amp/speakers or, God forbid, more music.
Have you tried picking out the ‘better’ cable unsighted and without bias and trying to justify the outlay to yourself?
As for speaker recommendations, I thought it was a given that they’d at least be listened to before buying - as such, the vague suggestions I gave where just that; suggestions of good speakers that work with a wide variety of music and rooms.
At least there’s a real difference in the sound of speakers...
I note you didn’t answer my original question btw.
For the record, I’ve tried, bought and owned various cables over the years including VdH hybrids, Chinese gold foil, all manner of silver plated copper from Nordost to Chord and all sizes from bell wire to elephant trunks and I’ve slowly realised what I was to.d years ago is true - all competently designed cables that measure the same will sound the same.
YMMV.
Which cables are you using and why did you choose them?
Mr_Yogi said:
maybe I worded that wrong. What I meant was that unless you have a high end system, IMHO you'll not see worthwhile benefits of posh cables. Better spend the money on better speakers. Good budget cables with better speakers will sound better than cheaper speakers with hundreds on £s worth of cables.Nordost Red Dawn, Chord Solid, VdH 1st ultimate and The Wind -vs- full Van Damme loom of 5M lengths quad core 8mm speaker cable and balanced interconnects (all for less than the price of one VdH rca interconnect) and no difference in sound quality.
Yeah, the Nordost looks cool in a silver ribbon type way and the polished gold on the VdH looks nice but that’s as far as it goes.
Still, I’m probably deaf
Patrick1964 said:
I know I’m wasting my internet breath here, as you’ve clearly already decided that I’m wrong.
I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
I've been there with crap cables and it is worth investing in well shielded cables, especially around the amp area where invariably you'll have lots of power cables driving your various devices. When I built my house, I had a lot of cabling routed through walls, HDMI, cat 6, twin and earth, speaker cable etc etc. I made sure to keep the speaker cable separate from the power cables where possible.I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
I've got Linn K400 at the front where all my gear is as it's super thick (weighs a ton) but that's more for piece of mind, rather than a requirement. Everywhere else is 2.5mm van damme cable, as mentioned by a previous poster. Well shielded and great value for money.
Having experimented with lots of cables, some at £100 a meter, you definely can tell the difference between poor cables and good cables. I would classify the van damme as good cables and at around a couple of pounds per meter, it hits the sweet spot. I struggle to find any improvement after spending more, and believe me, I have tried. Maybe I don't have good enough hearing. Well shielded 2.5mm is a good target to aim for IMO. A few pounds per meter is all I would spend for a £1500 set of speakers.
legzr1 said:
No cable can add anything.
I Never said it could
I note you didn’t answer my original question btw.
I’m not very good at describing sound - part of the reason I’ve offered to demonstrate.
YMMV.
I don’t know what this means
Which cables are you using and why did you choose them?
I’ve already answered this one 😉I Never said it could
I note you didn’t answer my original question btw.
I’m not very good at describing sound - part of the reason I’ve offered to demonstrate.
YMMV.
I don’t know what this means
Which cables are you using and why did you choose them?
soupdragon1 said:
I would classify the van damme as good cables and at around a couple of pounds per meter, it hits the sweet spot. I struggle to find any improvement after spending more, and believe me, I have tried. Maybe I don't have good enough hearing. Well shielded 2.5mm is a good target to aim for IMO.
Yup, that's the stuff the guy who mixed and mastered it will have used too.
Patrick1964 said:
legzr1 said:
No cable can add anything.
I Never said it could
I note you didn’t answer my original question btw.
I’m not very good at describing sound - part of the reason I’ve offered to demonstrate.
YMMV.
I don’t know what this means
Which cables are you using and why did you choose them?
I’ve already answered this one ??I Never said it could
I note you didn’t answer my original question btw.
I’m not very good at describing sound - part of the reason I’ve offered to demonstrate.
YMMV.
I don’t know what this means
Which cables are you using and why did you choose them?
So, you agree no cable can add anything therefore any differences have to be because of something being taken away. To actually pay quite a bit of money for a cable that misses part of the frequency range seems a little silly.
YMMV - your mileage may vary - your opinion may differ etc.
I can’t see where you’ve mentioned which cables you use. Perhaps my eyes are as bad as my ears...
Patrick1964 said:
I know I’m wasting my internet breath here, as you’ve clearly already decided that I’m wrong.
I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
You have a pretty decent system. If you believe your cables make a difference then they do, for you...........they are your ears and its your brain; how you interpret the information is entirely up to you. I’m not sure why it’s so difficult to understand that poor cables can hamper even the best system. I’ve offered to demonstrate the difference between crap cables and decent ones. I can’t add anything more and frankly it doesn’t really matter. I’m a bit surprised though that so many people on this thread are happy to recommend speakers which may or may not suit the system / room / op but immediately slam down someone who says “don’t forget the cables”.
However..............
You didn't just say “don’t forget the cables”; you suggested spending up to 1/3 on speaker cables. The vast majority of people working in the industry ( Recording engineers, speaker designers, amplifier designers ) who do actually understand how little they contribute to a systems overall sound, think that 33% figure is ludicrous. I recall that when asked about the subject one of the reviewers for Home Theater Magazine said " in more than 20 years of speaker reviewing, and testing speakers from under US$50 to over $20,000 per pair, we've only ever had one manufacturer express concern about which cables were being used in the partnering system."
You also posted "Anyone who doubts the ability of good cable to lift a system dramatically is either deaf or just hasn’t had the opportunity to make a comparison.". The overwhelming evidence resulting from competently conducted tests has concluded that listeners cannot identify differences between 'competently engineered' cables.
Some of the links here might be helpful. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/testing-audiophile...
Edited by Crackie on Sunday 25th March 10:58
I've bowed out from all the bulls
t, Hi-Fi, foo nonsense. But the one thing i have held on to are my Neat speakers. £2500 quid new for compact floorstanders like Neat Motive 1, you can pick them up used for a lot less than that these days. you may even bag some of the later model ex demo somewhere for less than your budget if you look.
I've realised the hard way that amplification and media players are much of a same, transducers are where it's at and Neat make really good ones in my opinion.
t, Hi-Fi, foo nonsense. But the one thing i have held on to are my Neat speakers. £2500 quid new for compact floorstanders like Neat Motive 1, you can pick them up used for a lot less than that these days. you may even bag some of the later model ex demo somewhere for less than your budget if you look. I've realised the hard way that amplification and media players are much of a same, transducers are where it's at and Neat make really good ones in my opinion.
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