Worth putting slabs under speaker stands?
Discussion
In my man cave I have a computer desk and have a hifi system connected. The speakers are currently on floor standing speaker stands to raise them to the correct height, and keep them off the desk.
I still sometimes feel as though I'm getting resonance off the desk even though the speaker stands are not touch the desk (nor are the speakers). It's a first floor room so it must be travelling through the floor.
Is it worth getting some slabs (i.e. marble or similar) to put underneath, would this help reduce this effect?
I still sometimes feel as though I'm getting resonance off the desk even though the speaker stands are not touch the desk (nor are the speakers). It's a first floor room so it must be travelling through the floor.
Is it worth getting some slabs (i.e. marble or similar) to put underneath, would this help reduce this effect?
Interesting to read! I have two sets of floor standers both on spikes and I was going to put something down to avoid damaging to the floor....speaker spikes are really very pointy, but wondered if it would improve the sound quality at all.
The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
Autopilot said:
Interesting to read! I have two sets of floor standers both on spikes and I was going to put something down to avoid damaging to the floor....speaker spikes are really very pointy, but wondered if it would improve the sound quality at all.
The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
There are metal, concave discs available that the spikes sit in. Worth a try. The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
Edit: here's a version on eBay
Edited by Tony1963 on Sunday 22 July 10:16
Autopilot said:
Interesting to read! I have two sets of floor standers both on spikes and I was going to put something down to avoid damaging to the floor....speaker spikes are really very pointy, but wondered if it would improve the sound quality at all.
The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
Mines on a suspended floor so not very solid at all so I expect that's why I noticed a big difference.The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
Autopilot said:
Interesting to read! I have two sets of floor standers both on spikes and I was going to put something down to avoid damaging to the floor....speaker spikes are really very pointy, but wondered if it would improve the sound quality at all.
The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
I had spiked stands on an oak parquet floor. To prevent damage I drilled a shallow hole in some 10p coins to put under the spikes. I also put a small piece of blutac under each coin.The speakers are heavy and the floor, while wooden, is pretty solid so not expecting much but can see that removing as much contact with things as possible must be a good thing!
As ever, experiment, but be ready to ditch some materials. Sorbothane under a CD player can work, or it can make the sound flat a lifeless. Under speakers, anything that 'cushions' the speaker is generally a bad thing as often the cabinet will move a little instead of the drive unit.
So if an idea uses cheap/free materials, go for it. If not, be wary.
So if an idea uses cheap/free materials, go for it. If not, be wary.
Not necessarily a cheap solution, but I've found these to be incredibly effective:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5AXNI/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DI5AXNI/
You really need a sturdy base. As others have said anything that moves (foam and the like), will try and counteract moment of the cones.
Best bet is always spikes onto solid preferably concrete floor. If the floor needs protection then spikes onto paving slabs is imho almost as good.
Wickes will sell you 2 paving slabs for a fiver or so. No need to get single crystal oxygen free ones with gold plated contacts.
Best bet is always spikes onto solid preferably concrete floor. If the floor needs protection then spikes onto paving slabs is imho almost as good.
Wickes will sell you 2 paving slabs for a fiver or so. No need to get single crystal oxygen free ones with gold plated contacts.
hornmeister said:
You really need a sturdy base. As others have said anything that moves (foam and the like), will try and counteract moment of the cones.
Best bet is always spikes onto solid preferably concrete floor. If the floor needs protection then spikes onto paving slabs is imho almost as good.
Wickes will sell you 2 paving slabs for a fiver or so. No need to get single crystal oxygen free ones with gold plated contacts.
This is nonsense. Look at the Townshend website for an explanation as to why rigid coupling is a no-no...Best bet is always spikes onto solid preferably concrete floor. If the floor needs protection then spikes onto paving slabs is imho almost as good.
Wickes will sell you 2 paving slabs for a fiver or so. No need to get single crystal oxygen free ones with gold plated contacts.
http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-eq...
If you want to look into decoupling you could try getting hold of some Washing Machine anti-vibration matting. This is designed to absorb low frequency vibrations and should have no trouble dealing with the energy put out by your speakers. I use the following under slabs with my (spiked) floor standing speakers resting on top. I no longer have the floor playing along with the bassline.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QVN1QQW/ref...
Other similar products/retailers are available. This sort of thing is easy to cut to size. It's probably most easy to try between your speakers and the top of the stands. If you don't like what it does shove it under your washing machine.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QVN1QQW/ref...
Other similar products/retailers are available. This sort of thing is easy to cut to size. It's probably most easy to try between your speakers and the top of the stands. If you don't like what it does shove it under your washing machine.
robbyd said:
hornmeister said:
You really need a sturdy base. As others have said anything that moves (foam and the like), will try and counteract moment of the cones.
Best bet is always spikes onto solid preferably concrete floor. If the floor needs protection then spikes onto paving slabs is imho almost as good.
Wickes will sell you 2 paving slabs for a fiver or so. No need to get single crystal oxygen free ones with gold plated contacts.
This is nonsense. Look at the Townshend website for an explanation as to why rigid coupling is a no-no...Best bet is always spikes onto solid preferably concrete floor. If the floor needs protection then spikes onto paving slabs is imho almost as good.
Wickes will sell you 2 paving slabs for a fiver or so. No need to get single crystal oxygen free ones with gold plated contacts.
http://www.townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-eq...
Isolating equipment from the speaker vibrations, yes fine.
Isolating the speaker from the surroundings fine, but making the speaker boxes move doesn't make sense to me. But interesting thanks for the links.
if the baffle (ie the speaker box) moves due to movement of the cone becasue it's not solidly mounted, then a different volume of air is moved than from what is intended. Think this is refereed to as Doppler distortion, but forgive me it's 20 odd years since I studied. Manufacturers spend an awful lot of effort designing the response of a speaker and adjusting this response by chucking some rubber underneath doesn't make sense to me. If it was such a simple cheap improvement to sound wouldn't it be included already and the speaker tuned for it?
The linked video shows that a non damped speaker box when tapped shows vibrations, but a damped speaker when tapped doesn't. Surely vibrations (in speaker use) are generated by the cones movement in the speaker and this is a perfect illustration of how subtle vibrations are lost because of the damping?
Surely all this just makes physical sense?
Differences, will of course be minor and it's all subjective of course. It shouldn't be decided upon without listening and if it sounds better to you then good luck, but I'll be saving my money.
Reviews need to be taken with a pinch of salt as magazines are funded by advertising. Some reviewers swear blind that picture and sound improvements are seen with expensive HDMI cables when as long as there is a reliable connection cable qulaity will not affect a digital signal one jot.
Isolating the speaker from the surroundings fine, but making the speaker boxes move doesn't make sense to me. But interesting thanks for the links.
if the baffle (ie the speaker box) moves due to movement of the cone becasue it's not solidly mounted, then a different volume of air is moved than from what is intended. Think this is refereed to as Doppler distortion, but forgive me it's 20 odd years since I studied. Manufacturers spend an awful lot of effort designing the response of a speaker and adjusting this response by chucking some rubber underneath doesn't make sense to me. If it was such a simple cheap improvement to sound wouldn't it be included already and the speaker tuned for it?
The linked video shows that a non damped speaker box when tapped shows vibrations, but a damped speaker when tapped doesn't. Surely vibrations (in speaker use) are generated by the cones movement in the speaker and this is a perfect illustration of how subtle vibrations are lost because of the damping?
Surely all this just makes physical sense?
Differences, will of course be minor and it's all subjective of course. It shouldn't be decided upon without listening and if it sounds better to you then good luck, but I'll be saving my money.
Reviews need to be taken with a pinch of salt as magazines are funded by advertising. Some reviewers swear blind that picture and sound improvements are seen with expensive HDMI cables when as long as there is a reliable connection cable qulaity will not affect a digital signal one jot.
Edited by hornmeister on Thursday 26th July 12:38
Crackie said:
Agreed......Townsend's work is well known and their decoupling products work well. However I don't agree about youe claim that rigid coupling is nonsense. There are many products which deliberately use rigid coupling to 'sink' mechanical energy out of the system. Wadia is one well known company that springs to mind. Mana Acoustics stands and racks https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch... were must haves for Naim and Linn owners a few years back.
Bit harsh perhaps, you're right. But I've had 4 tier mana stands under Naim 52/135s years ago and I'd never go back to it (both!). The dilemma, if that's what it is, is whether you're trying to 'sink' energy out of the system, which must be airborne, versus preventing energy coming up from the floor into your turntable, amps etc.The Townshend way prevents speakers passing that energy down into the floor in the first place, which not only prevents it travelling to other components, but I guess also prevents interaction with speaker cabinet & floor.
My 100 kg speakers float on springs and the little reaction the cabinet may have to the cones moving forward is far outweighed by their being isolated from the floor.
I have my floorstanders on spikes sitting on stone slabs. However I also drilled the stone slabs so that I could mount them on their own spikes.
I guess I could have just got different speaker spikes but where is the fun in that? Also the slabs have a wider foot print than the speakers so this gives the whole set up extra solidity.
It tightens up the sound stage and creates a much tighter punchier bass.
TD
I guess I could have just got different speaker spikes but where is the fun in that? Also the slabs have a wider foot print than the speakers so this gives the whole set up extra solidity.
It tightens up the sound stage and creates a much tighter punchier bass.
TD
robbyd said:
Crackie said:
Agreed......Townsend's work is well known and their decoupling products work well. However I don't agree about youe claim that rigid coupling is nonsense. There are many products which deliberately use rigid coupling to 'sink' mechanical energy out of the system. Wadia is one well known company that springs to mind. Mana Acoustics stands and racks https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch... were must haves for Naim and Linn owners a few years back.
Bit harsh perhaps, you're right. But I've had 4 tier mana stands under Naim 52/135s years ago and I'd never go back to it (both!). The dilemma, if that's what it is, is whether you're trying to 'sink' energy out of the system, which must be airborne, versus preventing energy coming up from the floor into your turntable, amps etc.The Townshend way prevents speakers passing that energy down into the floor in the first place, which not only prevents it travelling to other components, but I guess also prevents interaction with speaker cabinet & floor.
My 100 kg speakers float on springs and the little reaction the cabinet may have to the cones moving forward is far outweighed by their being isolated from the floor.
Dealing with these vibrations is usually tackled by decoupling / isolation or mechanical sinking. These are methods are fine if executed well; decoupling is often better in rooms with wooden floors and sinking is often favoured for concrete floors. Your speakers are fairly heavy and are likely generate a lot of energy, internally, when playing and Isolating them is one way of tackling this; companies such as Naim have tackled the issue by a combination of isolation & decoupling of drivers and a deliberately engineered mechanical path to earth via the stand / framework( SBL/ DBL/NBL )
A few years ago I designed some subwoofers for Amina technologies; this one http://www.insideci.co.uk/reviews/amina-alf120-in-... fits within stud walls. >110db at 26Hz inside the structure of a house has the potential to cause big resonance issues in the listening room.....and neighbouring rooms......and neighbouring floors. Decoupling was the solution in that case; sinking can be an effective solution in other cases.
Edited by Crackie on Sunday 29th July 07:08
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