Power cables (for amp)

[Crackie]

996owner said:

TonyRPH said:

996owner said:

I doubt it would damage an amp as most decent audio kit has a capacitor in the output circuit to block any dc current getting out.

You were doing so well until that line ^^^^ !

In fact very few amps have capacitors in the output stage these days - they are all DC coupled to the speaker.

However most will have a coupling capacitor on the input, however applying a few volts DC to this will still result in a healthy thump on the output.

EDIT: @996owner - sorry, misread your post.

Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 7th February 13:13

lol Yes you may get a nice thump, Hence keep the volume down .

Most if not all line level audio kit (pre amp level) will have dc blocking caps. I'd be surprised to see any half decent audio kit without such components in place.
That said I only really work on pro audio kit.

I don't know many pre-amp that don't have caps. The Audio Analogue Bellini pre amp doesn't have DC blocking caps; it can be used direct coupled with no caps in the signal path. I use one when I want to listen to vinyl on my digital active system at home.

The no cap option is switchable; I also use the pre amp to feed test signals ( Holmimpulse or ARTA ) into the digital system when setting it up or making changes. I'm not brave enough to use it without caps when feeding MLS tones in

IIRC Audiolab's original 8000Q pre amp also didn't use caps in the signal path.

[Tony1963]

I was at my friendly local hifi dealer’s today, and we had a chat about this. He’s like me in that he can’t explain why these silly cables sometimes work, and I don’t think he’s really that bothered by it all. However, he suspects that with the Naim leads and MusicWorks power strips it might be down to the mechanical decoupling as much as anything else. Naim, for decades now, have decoupled the power sockets in their players, amps and power supplies, so perhaps this explains it. MusicWorks strips appear cheap and poorly built to some because the sockets seem loose.

[ian996]

Crackie said:

Good post

Back in the day Hi-Fi Choice Magazine concentrated on blind testing of one different type of equipment each month, amps one month, speakers the next etc etc. The test panel was made up of the reviewer and usually 6-8 invited reviewers; this reviewing panel was invited from manufacturers within the industry. Using this blind methodology, a reviewer could be heaping praise on a competitors product or dismissing one of their own. No method is perfect but imho it was way better than most; certainly from the point that the conclusions look at the opinion a group of listeners rather than one individual.

I think the fact that these group tests unearthed some serious giant killers may well have led to their demise. I recall a couple of relatively entry Technics CD players outperforming everything else in their respective test including very well respected gear from people like Meridian and Quad. There was a low cost ( £160 ) Rotel integrated amp which a very high score for sound quality. It was only beaten by 5 or 6 amps at that time one of which was a Conrad Johnson pre amp that cost 56 times the price of the Rotel.

I can understand some companies not wanting their expensive gear exposed to that scrutiny.

http://www.yaegeraudio.com/reviews/technics-sl-pg5...

Good response!

The Conrad Johnson vs Rotel comparison is a perfect example. If the reviewers were also provided with the amps in question, in identical sealed casings, to use for a fortnight at their (relaxed) leisure (tricky in the case of a bulky pre-power and a regular-sized integrated, but within the scope of the hypothetical, it's not a problem), would the reviewers make the same choice? I'm sure the conclusion of most posters here would be: "Yes, they would.". I remain a little less sure. Conrad Johnson kit is widely considered (even by its greatest supporters) to be "subtle" above all else....definitely not particularly quick-fire test friendly.

Within a staged blind A/B/[X] test, I have a sneaky suspicion that SME 20/5 and Kuzma Stabi XL / Airline combinations might rank behind an LP12 and a Gryrodeck , because the latter two have a more overt "character". Some, almost certainly, would still prefer the LP12 , even after extended listening but, again, I'm not sure that all those who would have disregarded the SME or Kuzma tables at first listen would be happy to let them go after more prolonged exposure (This extended "blind" test would obviously be even harder to achieve to achieve in practice.)

In the wider scope of this thread (ie, not in direct response to your post, Crackie), I fully accept that I could be mistaken. I have explored (in quite some depth, over a period of 20 years) the possibility of whether what I seem to be perceiving is down to some kind of expectation bias. Ultimately, I can't reconcile all my perceived experiences with such an explanation. One avenue I have certainly considered is that, when I try something new, I concentrate harder, so somehow engage more fully with the music - hence hearing additional nuances/better perceived sound. The trouble is, the opposite seems true - the more I relax, the more I engage with the music, the more I enjoy it and the more nuances I pick up. Relaxation is hard to achieve within the context of an A/B/[X] test. (Tony1963 said this a while back, a lot more succinctly and economically, so perhaps it is time for me to follow the example of the O.P., and depart from the thread, taking my over-analysis with me!)

As a parting contribution, anyone who feels that expensive components and expensive ancillaries are not necessary - good on you. If you are enjoying your music, you are in a great place. For anyone whose perceptions don't always match the accepted orthodoxy, who is interested in exploring the neurological basis of why and how we enjoy music, I'd highly recommend the following book:

"This Is Your Brain On Music" By Daniel Levitin

The author is an ex record producer who is now a qualified Neurologist . I have a sneaking feeling he is also probably an audiophile, and his opinion I WOULD be interested in re: the infallability or otherwise of blind testing when applied to the limits of our sensory perception.

For anyone who has a sneaking suspicion that conventional measurements cannot capture everything we perceive (ie, our brains are more finely tuned (or, at least, more complex and wide-ranging) sensory tools than most sensors, the following is also a good read:

"The Demon In The Machine" By Paul Davies

This does not delve into hearing at all (much to my disappointment), but it does cover how our ever-growing knowledge of reality at the smallest of scales is boosting our knowledge of how our minds and bodies works. The section on the latest research into how migratory birds sense direction is utterly fascinating - [edited to add: "The research suggests that"] the lucky little bds have a biological "Heads-Up-Display". (cool!) and it utilises quantum entanglement (******* cool!!). The interesting thing is that, on an evolutionary basis, we probably have the capability for this as well, and I wouldn't be at all surprised it some nomadic population groups have extremely good senses of direction.

Apologies for drifting waaay off topic, I considered quoting (and probably mangling) a few of the points made in the above books, but that would have made my post even longer.

And , with that, I shall depart this post (cue cheers all round!)

Edited by ian996 on Sunday 9th February 16:27

Edited by ian996 on Sunday 9th February 18:38

[Tony1963]

^

And some think that science is already at its end.

[urquattroGus]

I think it's fair to say that one can expect the WOW factor from expensive gear, or to be WOWED by other gear on a short listen.

What impresses to begin with can be tiresome to live with, and expensive gear that doesn't instantly impress can suddenly become an essential once it is taken away and you realise what it can do.

Most of all though it is diminishing returns, but that doesn't stop us chasing whatever our perfect sound is.

[Tony1963]

Yeah. Diminishing returns...

The trouble is, once you’ve heard an improvement, you’re going to want it. It’ll play on your mind.

[WinstonWolf]

ian996 said:

This does not delve into hearing at all (much to my disappointment), but it does cover how our ever-growing knowledge of reality at the smallest of scales is boosting our knowledge of how our minds and bodies works. The section on the latest research into how migratory birds sense direction is utterly fascinating - [edited to add: "The research suggests that"] the lucky little bds have a biological "Heads-Up-Display". (cool!) and it utilises quantum entanglement (******* cool!!). The interesting thing is that, on an evolutionary basis, we probably have the capability for this as well, and I wouldn't be at all surprised it some nomadic population groups have extremely good senses of direction.

Apologies for drifting waaay off topic, I considered quoting (and probably mangling) a few of the points made in the above books, but that would have made my post even longer.

That I can agree on, I can always find north if I close my eyes and sense it. I can even tell roughly how many degrees a bed is 'out' compared to my own if I sleep in a strange bed. No idea how it works, it just does...

[Gary C]

mgv8 said:

S6PNJ said:

I'd suggest that whatever you use for the last 2-3 ft connection to your amp is as good as the 20-30 ft (or more) of wiring you have from your socket back plate to your consumer unit, so probably 2.5mm T+E. If you are going to upgrade your amp power cable, why stop there and why not do the rest of the distance to your CU?

That is the plan so the AMP will have its own power cable from the supply.

Just made sure that while we are overhauling our 400kV main breaker. X890, that we give it an extra special polish to ensure all you Audiophiles are kept happy

[LordLoveLength]

Gary C said:

Just made sure that while we are overhauling our 400kV main breaker. X890, that we give it an extra special polish to ensure all you Audiophiles are kept happy

Well as it is effectively a fuse I hope it’s in the right way round!
Apparently they’re directional....

I’ve got some magic audio beans here if anyone’s interested. They have been grounded on the equator to improve the transient response

[996owner]

Gary C said:

mgv8 said:

S6PNJ said:

I'd suggest that whatever you use for the last 2-3 ft connection to your amp is as good as the 20-30 ft (or more) of wiring you have from your socket back plate to your consumer unit, so probably 2.5mm T+E. If you are going to upgrade your amp power cable, why stop there and why not do the rest of the distance to your CU?

That is the plan so the AMP will have its own power cable from the supply.

Just made sure that while we are overhauling our 400kV main breaker. X890, that we give it an extra special polish to ensure all you Audiophiles are kept happy

If the breaker is directional nobody will require directional fuses.

[legzr1]

Visited a friend today who is well into mains treatment, regeneration and associated cabling. I’m not convinced and maintain £1000 spent on better speakers or room EQ makes more sense than the same amount spent on ONE 1M IEC cable...

So, I’ve returned home with a bag full of Furutech and other ‘posh’ cables with huge plugs (with Rhodium plated pins all containing gold plated fuses).

All my equipment comes with off-board power supplies (pre, two mono amps and the network streamer) so the posh mains cables will connect the PSU to the mains and use the standard umbilical cords from PSU to equipment.

Will they be better? No different? Worse?

Got them for a week or so.

I’ll be honest. No bias as they’re not mine and will be returned either way.

I’ll update if anyone is interested / still reading this thread.

[thebraketester]

This is genius.....

http://www.furutech.com/2018/05/16/16955/



One hundred and eighty five pounds.......

[thebraketester]

Please tell me this is all one big joke....

https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=furutech+fp%...

[deckster]

legzr1 said:

I’ll be honest. No bias as they’re not mine and will be returned either way.

Sounds good. Make sure you have a solid test process - you're testing the same sources back-to back, only change one thing at a time, and perhaps most importantly get somebody else to change the cables round entirely randomly so that you don't know what's being tested.

The results as you say could be interesting.

[Tony1963]

thebraketester said:

Please tell me this is all one big joke....

https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=furutech+fp%...

No

[spyder dryver]

thebraketester said:

Please tell me this is all one big joke....

https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=furutech+fp%...

"resonance absorbing tubing" isn't cheap, you know!

[thebraketester]

Ohh here is another one....

https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=furutech+cf%...

£111... for one XLR connector.


Neutrik XLR connectors which are considered industry standard, are less than £4

[Tony1963]

thebraketester said:

Ohh here is another one....

https://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/?product=furutech+cf%...

£111... for one XLR connector.


Neutrik XLR connectors which are considered industry standard, are less than £4

“Industry standard” doesn’t necessarily mean the best for all jobs. I’m acting as devil’s advocate here, so be gentle!

[Steven_RW]

If the power cable from socket to amp is important - why not just wire the mains directly to the amp? Other than the inability to turn it off does it not take out one component?

[thebraketester]