Discussion
doesthiswork said:
Does this count as vintage (or HiFi)? It's about 30 years old, a Pioneer DC-Z93 amp/equaliser/double cassette all in one, plus twin CD, tuner and turntable. I was given it for nothing by someone who was about to throw it out - it came complete with the remote and original speakers and has cleaned up a treat. I've got a belt and cartridge on the way for the turntable for less than £20 the pair, all the other sources are working, and the sound quality is pretty good - not the bassiest but very bright/forward/exciting/insert audiophile cliché here.
One odd thing about it is it has a set of phono/RCA style outputs for 'surround' speakers (16ohm min) which I presume just take the same signal as the main speakers rather than adding any genuine surround processing. I have plenty of small surround speakers knocking around but none of the correct cables so will source some to give it a go. No idea if this was a common feature around that time?
Altogether a massive upgrade for my son, over the cheapo suitcase turntable he's currently destroying my vinyl with.
This is the out of phase sound, and usually sounds like everything is in an echo chamber. Unless amplified, the sound levels are generally low as well.
Tandy / Realistic (amongst others) used this same technique. Tandy called it 'quatravox'.
Consider it a very early version of Dolby Prologic*; search for 'Hafler effect' for more details: I once built a little box to extract the 'surround' sound from TV broadcasts. It worked OK as a novelty, but didn't have the refinements that Dolby PL had and as said above could sound a bit echoey.
- PL uses phase difference for the surrounds and in phase to derive the centre speaker signal, but it does other things to 'steer' the sound as well as the basic Hafler circuit doesn't do this.
doesthiswork said:
Cheers Tony, I guess more of a novelty than actually improving the sound. I just need to find the right cables (and temper my son's expectations of this amazing new feature).
I just had a look at the schematic and the speakers are connected exactly as I thought.You can see the 'surround' (rear) speakers are just tapped off the (+) for left and right.
TonyRPH said:
doesthiswork said:
Does this count as vintage (or HiFi)? It's about 30 years old, a Pioneer DC-Z93 amp/equaliser/double cassette all in one, plus twin CD, tuner and turntable. I was given it for nothing by someone who was about to throw it out - it came complete with the remote and original speakers and has cleaned up a treat. I've got a belt and cartridge on the way for the turntable for less than £20 the pair, all the other sources are working, and the sound quality is pretty good - not the bassiest but very bright/forward/exciting/insert audiophile cliché here.
One odd thing about it is it has a set of phono/RCA style outputs for 'surround' speakers (16ohm min) which I presume just take the same signal as the main speakers rather than adding any genuine surround processing. I have plenty of small surround speakers knocking around but none of the correct cables so will source some to give it a go. No idea if this was a common feature around that time?
Altogether a massive upgrade for my son, over the cheapo suitcase turntable he's currently destroying my vinyl with.
This is the out of phase sound, and usually sounds like everything is in an echo chamber. Unless amplified, the sound levels are generally low as well.
Tandy / Realistic (amongst others) used this same technique. Tandy called it 'quatravox'.
dickymint said:
TonyRPH said:
doesthiswork said:
Does this count as vintage (or HiFi)? It's about 30 years old, a Pioneer DC-Z93 amp/equaliser/double cassette all in one, plus twin CD, tuner and turntable. I was given it for nothing by someone who was about to throw it out - it came complete with the remote and original speakers and has cleaned up a treat. I've got a belt and cartridge on the way for the turntable for less than £20 the pair, all the other sources are working, and the sound quality is pretty good - not the bassiest but very bright/forward/exciting/insert audiophile cliché here.
One odd thing about it is it has a set of phono/RCA style outputs for 'surround' speakers (16ohm min) which I presume just take the same signal as the main speakers rather than adding any genuine surround processing. I have plenty of small surround speakers knocking around but none of the correct cables so will source some to give it a go. No idea if this was a common feature around that time?
Altogether a massive upgrade for my son, over the cheapo suitcase turntable he's currently destroying my vinyl with.
This is the out of phase sound, and usually sounds like everything is in an echo chamber. Unless amplified, the sound levels are generally low as well.
Tandy / Realistic (amongst others) used this same technique. Tandy called it 'quatravox'.
Magnum 475 said:
No, Bi-Wire is running two sets of cable from the amp to each speaker. Typically the amp has two sets of speaker outputs, and the each speaker has two sets of inputs. I'm firmly in the Audiophile camp, and as long as you're using decent speaker cable, bi-wire has minimal benefit. Of course, bi-amping is a whole different story!
Some bi-wiring involves separate cables for different speakers so that any cross talk has to travel all the way up one cable, then all the way down the other.I've never been audiophile enough to bother though.
Although I did once get a good price on an end-of-roll of some Mission cable that consisted of two pairs of cables separated by a wide strip, maki g it a sort of ribbon cable.
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Magnum 475 said:
No, Bi-Wire is running two sets of cable from the amp to each speaker. Typically the amp has two sets of speaker outputs, and the each speaker has two sets of inputs. I'm firmly in the Audiophile camp, and as long as you're using decent speaker cable, bi-wire has minimal benefit. Of course, bi-amping is a whole different story!
Some bi-wiring involves separate cables for different speakers so that any cross talk has to travel all the way up one cable, then all the way down the other.I've never been audiophile enough to bother though.
Although I did once get a good price on an end-of-roll of some Mission cable that consisted of two pairs of cables separated by a wide strip, maki g it a sort of ribbon cable.
Or, for the ultimate, you use the Meridian approach to speakers, where the speaker cabinet includes one amp per driver, with DSP and cross-overs all happening way before the power amps. Of course, that can be a little bit expensive to buy.
TonyRPH said:
I just had a look at the schematic and the speakers are connected exactly as I thought.
You can see the 'surround' (rear) speakers are just tapped off the (+) for left and right.
I finally found some cables and connected a pair of Klegg M6 501 egg surround speakers. The effect is...interesting. You can see the 'surround' (rear) speakers are just tapped off the (+) for left and right.
I thought it would be 'on' all the time, but it had an odd way of really boosting the backing singers on the first track demo'd, which didn't really give a surround effect, just 'an effect'. It's not entirely unpleasant, to be honest it's better than I thought it would be, but I wouldn't choose to use it all the time.
Now all I need to do is adjust the turntable switch on the tonearm which activates too late when you move the arm across, meaning it switches the turntable off when you move the arm back to the first track on a 12".
doesthiswork said:
I finally found some cables and connected a pair of Klegg M6 501 egg surround speakers. The effect is...interesting.
I thought it would be 'on' all the time, but it had an odd way of really boosting the backing singers on the first track demo'd, which didn't really give a surround effect, just 'an effect'. It's not entirely unpleasant, to be honest it's better than I thought it would be, but I wouldn't choose to use it all the time.
Now all I need to do is adjust the turntable switch on the tonearm which activates too late when you move the arm across, meaning it switches the turntable off when you move the arm back to the first track on a 12".
It'll be quite variable with different tracks, as the amount of effect you hear will be dependant on many different factors such as recording technique, microphone placement, stereo separation etc. etc.I thought it would be 'on' all the time, but it had an odd way of really boosting the backing singers on the first track demo'd, which didn't really give a surround effect, just 'an effect'. It's not entirely unpleasant, to be honest it's better than I thought it would be, but I wouldn't choose to use it all the time.
Now all I need to do is adjust the turntable switch on the tonearm which activates too late when you move the arm across, meaning it switches the turntable off when you move the arm back to the first track on a 12".
miniman said:
GSE said:
There’s one of these in the cupboard under the stairs at my mother’s house. Keep meaning to see if it still works. 
TwigtheWonderkid said:
doesthiswork said:
That's utterly fabulous. doesthiswork said:
Does this count as vintage (or HiFi)? It's about 30 years old, a Pioneer DC-Z93 amp/equaliser/double cassette all in one, plus twin CD, tuner and turntable. I was given it for nothing by someone who was about to throw it out - it came complete with the remote and original speakers and has cleaned up a treat. I've got a belt and cartridge on the way for the turntable for less than £20 the pair, all the other sources are working, and the sound quality is pretty good - not the bassiest but very bright/forward/exciting/insert audiophile cliché here.
One odd thing about it is it has a set of phono/RCA style outputs for 'surround' speakers (16ohm min) which I presume just take the same signal as the main speakers rather than adding any genuine surround processing. I have plenty of small surround speakers knocking around but none of the correct cables so will source some to give it a go. No idea if this was a common feature around that time?
Altogether a massive upgrade for my son, over the cheapo suitcase turntable he's currently destroying my vinyl with.
This early surround element was more of a 'filler' than actual directional audio.
This won't be anywhere near as exciting as some of the stuff in here, but I thought I'd show my humble setup.
Speakers are a set of refurbished Teledyne Acoustic Research AR93, plugged into a Technics SU-X102 amp that a mate of mine was about to throw into a skip. My old man has a matching set of speakers that I've coveted for years, and when a set came up locally for a reasonable price I couldn't resist. To my inexpert ears they sound rather marvelous. Even if they do dwarf the telly a bit
Speakers are a set of refurbished Teledyne Acoustic Research AR93, plugged into a Technics SU-X102 amp that a mate of mine was about to throw into a skip. My old man has a matching set of speakers that I've coveted for years, and when a set came up locally for a reasonable price I couldn't resist. To my inexpert ears they sound rather marvelous. Even if they do dwarf the telly a bit
Success on a couple of repair projects:
The SX690 is now working after finding nearly all the 100ohm 1/4w resistors blown in the amplifier circuit. Seems like it may have suffered a mains surge or overvoltage. The original STKs were fine and didn't need replacing. The receiver is sounding great now after replacing the resistors and some cleaning of the pots and switches with de-oxit. A very cheap and easy repair.
This one was a little bit more involved. 1973 Akai AA-8080 receiver. On power up a buzzing and smoke from the transformer (!!) along with swelling filter caps about to explode! What are the chances of getting a multi winding 2x22 + 2x30 + 1x6 transformer off the shelf? Nil. But Airlink Transformers in Harlow cam to the rescue and made me 2 toroidals to suit which are now fitted where the old transformer was. New filter caps fitted and sound restored. All the indicators and backlighting are 6v incandescent bulbs, I haven't connected them back in yet. Just running them off an external supply at the moment. I was assuming that I could run them via a dropper resistor off of one of the ac windings but as they draw nearly 1.5 amps with everything lit, that's probably not a good idea! May be I could do it that way if I convert to LED bulbs that will draw far less current.
A nice pair
The SX690 is now working after finding nearly all the 100ohm 1/4w resistors blown in the amplifier circuit. Seems like it may have suffered a mains surge or overvoltage. The original STKs were fine and didn't need replacing. The receiver is sounding great now after replacing the resistors and some cleaning of the pots and switches with de-oxit. A very cheap and easy repair.
This one was a little bit more involved. 1973 Akai AA-8080 receiver. On power up a buzzing and smoke from the transformer (!!) along with swelling filter caps about to explode! What are the chances of getting a multi winding 2x22 + 2x30 + 1x6 transformer off the shelf? Nil. But Airlink Transformers in Harlow cam to the rescue and made me 2 toroidals to suit which are now fitted where the old transformer was. New filter caps fitted and sound restored. All the indicators and backlighting are 6v incandescent bulbs, I haven't connected them back in yet. Just running them off an external supply at the moment. I was assuming that I could run them via a dropper resistor off of one of the ac windings but as they draw nearly 1.5 amps with everything lit, that's probably not a good idea! May be I could do it that way if I convert to LED bulbs that will draw far less current.
A nice pair
CorradoTDI said:
Crackie said:
My first ever amp was one of these, purchased with cash earned from a lot of gardening and lugging golf clubs around the local course 45 years ago. I still have it and this thread has inspired me to get it up and running again........if only to see the VU meters dancing again.
Love the symmetry and simplicity of that!
New LED lamps behind both VU meters plus a quick spray with Servisol cleaner and the amp is good as new. The setup is in a spare room with an old Technics turntable, that used to belong to my grandmother, as the source. Speakers are the 'Eye Pods' from the build your own speakers thread. Albums on the wall have been in storage for over 30 years...........most of it is the stuff I bought, between the ages of 13 and 19, prior to getting my first CD player. Great memories revisiting them again.
Edited by Crackie on Sunday 31st July 21:25
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff