The best sounding (produced/mastered) tracks/albums

[Tony1963]

OutInTheShed said:

Don't forget that on some CDs, in some (or even all!) players, the error correction is doing an awful lot of work and may not be doing it perfectly.

What are you trying to say?

[MC Bodge]

Tony1963 said:

MC Bodge said:

Is the digital code on the disc any different?

If not, then how can the sound produced be any different?

So you don’t think that from a beautifully recorded/mastered version it would be possible to make third rate copies?

I'm not an audiophile expert, but I am an engineer and I like to ask questions.

CDs have "0s and 1s" burned into them that correspond to digital "Words" that a CD player converts from digital words to a close approximation of analogue output at a speaker.

Why would the same 0's and 1's on different plastic discs produced to the same engineering standard, and in a similarly good condition, produce a different sound from a digital to analogue converter?

It is like computer software.

Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 25th February 13:18

[Tony1963]

MC Bodge said:

I'm not an audiophile expert, but I am an engineer and I like to ask questions.

CDs have "0s and 1s" burned into them that correspond to digital "Words" that a CD player converts from digital words to a close approximation of analogue output at a speaker.

Why would the same 0's and 1's on different plastic discs produced to the same engineering standard, and in a similarly good condition, produce a different sound from an analogue to digital converter?

It is like computer software.

Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 25th February 10:50

Edited by MC Bodge on Saturday 25th February 10:52

And I’ll repeat, ish, what I said earlier: do you think that someone could, if they wanted to, make new CDs from original masters but compress the sound using software so that it sounds ok on cheap fm and dab radios in noisy workplaces?

[Funk]

Please don't turn this thread into a tech debate - can we just keep it to recommendations of music we love to listen to...?

[Tony1963]

Here is a selection of Thriller recordings. Mostly CD, and the worst here are CD

[Tony1963]

Funk said:

Please don't turn this thread into a tech debate - can we just keep it to recommendations of music we love to listen to...?

Agreed.

@ those who want to understand how some copies of ‘the same’ album can vary so much, maybe start a new thread?

[MC Bodge]

Funk said:

Please don't turn this thread into a tech debate - can we just keep it to recommendations of music we love to listen to...?

Fair point.

[NDA]

Funk said:

Check out 'Long After You're Gone' by him as well, great track. Most of the stuff on the Stockfisch label seems to be very well-produced and recorded.

Some recommendations which are reference tracks for me:

Midnight Blues - Snowy White & the White Flames
Blackest Eyes - Porcupine Tree
Detroit - Marcus Miller
Colour to the Moon - Allan Taylor
Raise the Roof - Bob James
Baby King - Marc Cohn
The Grave & the Constant - Fun Lovin' Criminals
Watercolour - Pendulum
Move On - George Michael
On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Propellerheads
Rainmaker - Keb' Mo'
Mona Lisa - Martin Taylor
Played Twice - Fred Hirsch Trio
Sweet Georgia Brown - Monty Alexander

Looking forward to checking out all the recommendations from others later on!

Some great tracks there - a few are new artists to me (Porcupine Tree, Allan Taylor). Interesting to read who is on the Bob James album - er, everyone! Hahahaha.

I am going through them, my tinnitus is bad today so I'm not getting the best out of them.

I will still peddle my new discovery - Wolfgang Haffner and the album Silent World. My current go to listening.

Manu Katché is a drummer worth following around, his Third Round album is superbly recorded - Pino Palladino on bass ...

[TorqueDirty]

Deranged Rover said:

These should get you going...

Chris Jones - No Sanctuary

Well that certainly woke up my sub! Stunning recording with superbly tight yet immense bass.

Keep then coming - I have enjoyed my system more in the last few days (because of this thread) than I have for a long time.

So many good albums / songs are badly recorded so it is a joy to find tracks that really let a good system fulfil its potential.

[Funk]

If it's a sub workout you guys like then check out Erykah Badu's - Rimshot (Intro):



Great album in fact.

Edited by Funk on Sunday 26th February 22:26

[NDA]

Anyway The Main Thing Is by Patty Larkin is an interesting recording - some cool little mid range things going on.

[darreni]

Simple minds, new gold dream. I always thought it was well mixed & produced but the Abbey Road half speed vinyl remaster is just superb.

[PM3]

........and all produced from a DIGITAL copy of the 1/2" ( sometimes 1/4") tape source ...to make the LP press copy .
Granted the real problems arise with the people who mix the version and what they do to artificially boost / regress the dynamic range and spectra mix

[spyder dryver]

Porcupine tree have been mentioned already but drummer Gavin Harrison's collaboration with O5ric, "Drop" , is worth a listen.
Gavin's drum sound (and execution) is other-worldly.

I'd agree with many of the previous suggestions and add...

Rage Against The Machine - Killing in the Name Of

Suzanne Vega - Solitude Standing

Laura Veirs - Carbon Glacier

[MC Bodge]

TorqueDirty said:

Deranged Rover said:

These should get you going...

Chris Jones - No Sanctuary

Well that certainly woke up my sub! Stunning recording with superbly tight yet immense bass.

I'd never heard of him until this thread.

It does sound good on my house and garage systems.

I tried it in the car too (just an oem Ford system with an added under-seat sub) and everything that wasn't stuck down rattled.

Some of his other stuff is good too.

[generationx]

Propaganda are always good, particularly A Secret Wish.

[MC Bodge]

Even before reading this excellent thread, I'd noticed that a lot of 1980s stuff sounds really good/clean technically.

My teenage era was the early-mid 90s, but a lot of 80s music has aged better, to my ears, and is more upbeat.

[darreni]

PM3 said:

........and all produced from a DIGITAL copy of the 1/2" ( sometimes 1/4") tape source ...to make the LP press copy .
Granted the real problems arise with the people who mix the version and what they do to artificially boost / regress the dynamic range and spectra mix

Miles Showell describes the New Gold Dream remaster process:

1.What is ‘Half-Speed Mastering’?

This is an elaborate process whereby the source is played back at half its normal speed and the turntable on the disc cutting lathe is running at 16 2/3 R.P.M. Because both the source and the cut were running at half their “normal” speeds everything plays back at the right speed when the record is played at home.

2.What are the advantages of Half-Speed Mastering?

The vinyl L.P. is an analogue sound carrier. Therefore the size and shape of the groove carrying the music is directly related to whatever the music is doing at any particular point. By reducing the speed by a factor of two the recording stylus has twice as long to carve the intricate groove into the master lacquer. Also, any difficult to cut high-frequency information becomes fairly easy to cut mid-range. The result is a record that is capable of extremely clean and un-forced high-frequency response as well as a detailed and solid stereo image.

3.Are there any disadvantages?

Only two, having to listen to music at half-speed for hour after hour can be a little difficult at least until I get to hear back the resulting cut when it all becomes worthwhile. The other dis-advantage is an inability to do any de-essing. De-essing is a form of processing the signal whereby the “sss” and “t” sounds from the vocalist are controlled in order to avoid sibilance and distortion on playback. None of the tools I would ordinarily employ on a real-time cut work at half speed as the frequencies are wrong so the offending “sss” does not trigger the limiter and everything is moving so slowly there is no acceleration as such for the de-esser to look out for. This has always been the Achilles heel of half-speed cutting until now (see 6 below).

4.What was the source for this record?

This album was cut from a high-resolution digital transfer from the original ½” analogue masters. The tapes were re-played on an Ampex ATR-102 fitted with custom extended bass response playback heads. Only minimal sympathetic equalisation was applied to the transfer to keep everything as pure as possible. Also, as this was an analogue, vinyl only high quality release, I did not apply any digital limiting. This is added to almost all digital releases to make them appear to be loud and is responsible for “the loudness war” and in almost every case is anything but natural and pure sounding.

5.Why could it not be cut ‘all analogue’?

The biggest variable when cutting from tape is the replay machine. Every individual roller in the tape’s path will have a direct effect on the quality of the audio emanating from the machine. In addition to this, there is the issue of the sub 30Hz low-frequency roll off on an advance head disc-cutting tape machine which in effect will come into play at 60 Hz when running at half speed. In addition to this, there are also some unpredictable frequency anomalies in the 35-38 Hz region with analogue tape that will double up at half speed. These are all problems if you want to hear as originally intended the lowest register of the bass end on a recording. There is also the lesser potential problem of tape weave that effectively increases at lower speeds and leads to less high frequency stability and the possibility of minor azimuth errors. Even if these problems could be overcome, this is quite a long album and the masters were recorded on ½” tape running at 30 inches per second. The master reels are 14” in diameter and are just too big to fit onto a Studer A80 advance head replay machine. Neither Studer nor anyone else made a machine that could be used to play 14”reels and have an advance head for all analogue disc cutting. Even when this album was originally cut in 1982 it was played on an Ampex ATR-102 feeding into a digital delay. The advantage I have now is that digital converters are greatly improved over what was available 34 years ago. Finally, analogue tape becomes degraded with each pass over the replay heads. These tapes are getting old and it is no longer considered good practice to play and play and play precious old original masters for fear of damage and general wear and tear. Far better, then, to eliminate the variable of the reply machine and to minimise wear of the master by capturing the music digitally at very high resolution using professional converters locked down with stable external word-clocks. I can completely understand the reasons for the concerns that some people have when cutting classic albums from digital sources. Historically, there have been some horrible digital transfers used as a vinyl cutting source. This has absolutely not been the case with this series. Micro-management of the audio and attention to detail has been the order of the day. Abbey Road has striven to eliminate any digital weaknesses from the signal path in all the rooms in the building. Therefore to capture to high resolution digital from a well maintained Ampex ATR-102 with extended bass heads is a far superior working method in my opinion.

6.Are there any advantages to this working method?

Yes, any problems with the tape can be treated far more accurately digitally than they could be by using traditional analogue techniques. For example de-essing. I can, by careful editing, target just the offending “sss” and leave intact the rest of the audio. Therefore high-hats, bright guitars and snare drums are not affected or reduced in impact. Using an analogue scatter-gun de-esser approach would also trigger the limiter in many parts of the audio that do not need to be worked on. The de-esser cannot tell a bright guitar from bright vocal and will smooth everything out leading to dull guitars or soft snare drums and weak hi-hats. Targeting the “sss” sounds in the vocal as I have done in this series is time consuming but is worthwhile in the pursuit of the very best possible sounding record. Also if there was any damage to the analogue tape (drop-outs and clicks for example) this can by and large be restored using modern digital methods in a way that is unobtrusive and this would be impossible using analogue methods. For the record, none of the albums in this series have been de-noised. Only clicks have been removed and drop-outs repaired where possible.

Miles Showell - Mastering Engineer, Abbey Road

[thebraketester]

Ive got a couple of 12" records that require them to be played at 45rpm. Presumably to get a better output?

[Deranged Rover]

TorqueDirty said:

Well that certainly woke up my sub! Stunning recording with superbly tight yet immense bass.

Keep then coming - I have enjoyed my system more in the last few days (because of this thread) than I have for a long time.

So many good albums / songs are badly recorded so it is a joy to find tracks that really let a good system fulfil its potential.

Right, now your subs are all warmed up, one of these should break them…

Bella Fleck & the Flecktones - Flight of the Cosmic Hippo

Trentemoller - Chameleon

Infected Mushroom - The Shen