New "Home Cinema" room
Discussion
we are about to convert our loft to get some extra rooms - and I have managed to negotiate a decent sized cinema type room with the better half.
I have to confess I do not know this area well, at the moment I am thinking of a projector rather than LCD/LED/Plasma - does anyone have any thoughts on this?
I have to confess I do not know this area well, at the moment I am thinking of a projector rather than LCD/LED/Plasma - does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Projector is good for a cinema room, you need to look at minimising ambient light but that shouldn't be an issue in a loft conversion.
I don't know the layout of the room, but lofts can have low ceilings and beams that can cause issues with placing the projector and screen properly. I would check out if you can place the beamer in a position that will give a decent sized image before going any further. There are loads of web sites with calculations, or better still approach a decent AV installer locally to give some advice
I don't know the layout of the room, but lofts can have low ceilings and beams that can cause issues with placing the projector and screen properly. I would check out if you can place the beamer in a position that will give a decent sized image before going any further. There are loads of web sites with calculations, or better still approach a decent AV installer locally to give some advice
I have my home cinema in my living room, so I'm quite jealous of you having a dedicated room for yours. 
It's really important to realise that it's not just how dark you can make the room, but also how dark the walls and ceiling are. If you have a 'nice light coloured room' it will ruin the potential picture quality from a front projector due to the light bouncing back from the walls and ceiling, which will wash out any dark parts of the image. Ideally the walls and particularly ceiling should be painted as dark as you can get away/can cope with. Some guys over on the AVForums I frequent have even covered their ceiling and side walls with velvet to reduce reflections compared to black paint. While that may be extreme, it will certainly give a much better picture than even a more expensive projector in a light room.
The choice of screen can help here: A more directional screen is less effected by side wall reflections and if a smaller size (say less than 100" diagonal) then most current 1080p PJs should be able to cope with a grey screen and still be bright enough.
Make sure you demo any candidates as even the very expensive PJs are not perfect. You need to choose your poison: Single chip DLP PJ users can suffer from the 'rainbow' effect where movement causes the image to break up into coloured stripes. Not everyone can 'see' this effect, some don't see but suffer headaches after a while and some aren't bothered at all; they tend to have very sharp punchy images if you can get on with them. They can also be more difficult to position as they sometimes aren't so flexible in terms of lens shift adjustment. LCD and LCOS PJs can suffer from 'sample and hold' type smearing effects on movement and LCDs tend to have poorer blacks. Some PJs use a dynamic iris to give a better contrast range, but this can sometimes be seen working or just compresses white levels in dark scenes. LCOS tends to have better blacks, but some models don't have very accurate colours so need an external video processor and suitable recalibration to correct.
I've upgraded from various Panasonic AExxxx 1080p LCD models (with dynamic iris) and now have a JVC HD350 DILA (LCOS) 1080p projector (no dynamic iris) plus a Lumagen HDQ VP for colour correction and greyscale calibration. The better 'native' contrast ratio of the JVC gives me much better dark scene performance than the AE3000 I had previously even though the advertised specs would have you believe otherwise (see what I meant about demoing?). I even have a temporary removeable black cloth 'tent' that I put up when watching as my ceiling is white and the side walls are light grey. The tent makes a big difference, but it would be better just to have dark coloured walls/ceiling, but SWMBO won't go for having such dark colours in the living room.
Another thing to consider is the shape of the screen: I find most of the BluRays/DVDs that I watch are 2.35:1 format rather than 16:9 (1.78:1) like a widescreen TV. Because of this I bought a custom made 112" WIDE 2.35:1 screen so I don't suffer those annoying black bars top and bottom of the screen, only at the sides when I watch the occasional TV program or 1.78:1 film.
It's great having a projector, but it can be an expensive and addictive hobby......
It's really important to realise that it's not just how dark you can make the room, but also how dark the walls and ceiling are. If you have a 'nice light coloured room' it will ruin the potential picture quality from a front projector due to the light bouncing back from the walls and ceiling, which will wash out any dark parts of the image. Ideally the walls and particularly ceiling should be painted as dark as you can get away/can cope with. Some guys over on the AVForums I frequent have even covered their ceiling and side walls with velvet to reduce reflections compared to black paint. While that may be extreme, it will certainly give a much better picture than even a more expensive projector in a light room.
The choice of screen can help here: A more directional screen is less effected by side wall reflections and if a smaller size (say less than 100" diagonal) then most current 1080p PJs should be able to cope with a grey screen and still be bright enough.
Make sure you demo any candidates as even the very expensive PJs are not perfect. You need to choose your poison: Single chip DLP PJ users can suffer from the 'rainbow' effect where movement causes the image to break up into coloured stripes. Not everyone can 'see' this effect, some don't see but suffer headaches after a while and some aren't bothered at all; they tend to have very sharp punchy images if you can get on with them. They can also be more difficult to position as they sometimes aren't so flexible in terms of lens shift adjustment. LCD and LCOS PJs can suffer from 'sample and hold' type smearing effects on movement and LCDs tend to have poorer blacks. Some PJs use a dynamic iris to give a better contrast range, but this can sometimes be seen working or just compresses white levels in dark scenes. LCOS tends to have better blacks, but some models don't have very accurate colours so need an external video processor and suitable recalibration to correct.
I've upgraded from various Panasonic AExxxx 1080p LCD models (with dynamic iris) and now have a JVC HD350 DILA (LCOS) 1080p projector (no dynamic iris) plus a Lumagen HDQ VP for colour correction and greyscale calibration. The better 'native' contrast ratio of the JVC gives me much better dark scene performance than the AE3000 I had previously even though the advertised specs would have you believe otherwise (see what I meant about demoing?). I even have a temporary removeable black cloth 'tent' that I put up when watching as my ceiling is white and the side walls are light grey. The tent makes a big difference, but it would be better just to have dark coloured walls/ceiling, but SWMBO won't go for having such dark colours in the living room.
Another thing to consider is the shape of the screen: I find most of the BluRays/DVDs that I watch are 2.35:1 format rather than 16:9 (1.78:1) like a widescreen TV. Because of this I bought a custom made 112" WIDE 2.35:1 screen so I don't suffer those annoying black bars top and bottom of the screen, only at the sides when I watch the occasional TV program or 1.78:1 film.
It's great having a projector, but it can be an expensive and addictive hobby......
er, well, er, I am not sure what to say - I just wanted a pretty big screen and decent pictures - not sure I want to go through all that!
seriously though - I would not claim to be even vaguely an expert in this field - but I am getting a taste of what is to come!
the projector the guy at the shop showed me (it was a Sony and he said was under £2K) was showing blade runner - is there a better benchmark film?
I am clearly heading down yet another expensive addiction - thanks to all for the warnings - but - I am sure i will ignore them....
If people are interested then I could turn this into a PH project - I could post ideas, specs, quotes on here and get the PH people involved?
seriously though - I would not claim to be even vaguely an expert in this field - but I am getting a taste of what is to come!
the projector the guy at the shop showed me (it was a Sony and he said was under £2K) was showing blade runner - is there a better benchmark film?
I am clearly heading down yet another expensive addiction - thanks to all for the warnings - but - I am sure i will ignore them....
If people are interested then I could turn this into a PH project - I could post ideas, specs, quotes on here and get the PH people involved?
Sounds like the Sony VWL10 (or whatever the number is), which is a LCOS PJ with dynamic iris. If you liked what you saw in the shop, then just think what their decor was like. If it was fairly light in colour, then maybe you don't need to go quite so 'hardcore' as the black velvet guys on AVForums! The Sony has a pretty good contrast ratio and black level, so for the money you'll probably not find much 'better', only 'different' picture quality from other makes such as Infocus or BenQ. Bladerunner seems to be a popular demo piece, with plenty of dark scenes IIRC. To check for rainbow effect on DLPs try using Sin City as it is black and white high contrast that will show up the issue. Don't be suckered with the usual animated fodder like WallE or Cars as they tend to look great on anything (which is why many shops use them for TV demos too).
It's easy to get sucked into spending more and more money (I know I've done it!), but it's not like you have to do all, or even any of what I mentioned above it's just better to be forewarned. Nothing worse than finding out afterwards that you could have bought a 2.35:1 screen instead and not suffered black bars during most films, (you could always add some kind of masking afterwards if it bothers you assuming you buy a 'standard' 16:9 screen) or find that the rainbow effect gives you, or your family, headaches. RE the black room treatments, the first 2 metres out from the screen seems to give the best improvement, with diminishing returns beyond that, which might be worth considering.
It would be good to see your project on here. If you're interested here is my thread over on the AVForum:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema...
It's easy to get sucked into spending more and more money (I know I've done it!), but it's not like you have to do all, or even any of what I mentioned above it's just better to be forewarned. Nothing worse than finding out afterwards that you could have bought a 2.35:1 screen instead and not suffered black bars during most films, (you could always add some kind of masking afterwards if it bothers you assuming you buy a 'standard' 16:9 screen) or find that the rainbow effect gives you, or your family, headaches. RE the black room treatments, the first 2 metres out from the screen seems to give the best improvement, with diminishing returns beyond that, which might be worth considering.
It would be good to see your project on here. If you're interested here is my thread over on the AVForum:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/members-home-cinema...
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Wednesday 10th June 08:39
OldSkoolRS said:
thanks for that - I had a look - and to be honest remember why I hate DIY!I just do not have the patience for it (and I am crap!)
Yes, I've developed a hatred for DIY...that living room was one of the last projects in this house spread over 8 years (I did a bathroom afterwards and got seriously p****d off with it 
). It's great having that screen set up now though...whenever we have visitors I have to fire it up for them and then they stop for the whole film usually. Last weekend my wife's cousin went home muttering about how he could earn some extra cash to buy something similar.
Hope I haven't put you off getting a PJ.....
). It's great having that screen set up now though...whenever we have visitors I have to fire it up for them and then they stop for the whole film usually. Last weekend my wife's cousin went home muttering about how he could earn some extra cash to buy something similar. Hope I haven't put you off getting a PJ.....
We've just retrimmed a dem room the centrepiece of which is the JVC DILA-HD750 front projector.
The ambient decor is vital but having just been forced at knifepoint in there by wor man, Gandalf, to witness a few scenes from 'Kingdom of Heaven,' I can only say that it goes a long way to the proper replication of a bona fide theatre experience.
The electronics are no less critical but if you have a fair budget but wish to avoid excess complication then Yamaha's DSP-Z11 is the best single box heart for any system this side of the Russian oligarch market!
The ambient decor is vital but having just been forced at knifepoint in there by wor man, Gandalf, to witness a few scenes from 'Kingdom of Heaven,' I can only say that it goes a long way to the proper replication of a bona fide theatre experience.
The electronics are no less critical but if you have a fair budget but wish to avoid excess complication then Yamaha's DSP-Z11 is the best single box heart for any system this side of the Russian oligarch market!
you need to get over to avforums mate, helpful bunch and very knowledgeable, O/T but Plotless - you on there mate? Guessing you must be...
Back on topic, can't beat a decent pj for flexibility, i run an epson tw2000, a tw700 and a couple of panasonic plasmas across the house, the full HD pj's are worth the extra investment but tbh i haven't kept up since the 2000 went in early last year, the urge to upgrade has disappeared. If your budget can stretch it's worth putting in a panel and a pj, sometimes my pj seems unnecessary so i just use the plasma, other times the other half wants to go on the net on a larger screen so the hdmi matrix allows us the best of both worlds... the only upgrade i need now is a box that restricts reality tv viewing
Back on topic, can't beat a decent pj for flexibility, i run an epson tw2000, a tw700 and a couple of panasonic plasmas across the house, the full HD pj's are worth the extra investment but tbh i haven't kept up since the 2000 went in early last year, the urge to upgrade has disappeared. If your budget can stretch it's worth putting in a panel and a pj, sometimes my pj seems unnecessary so i just use the plasma, other times the other half wants to go on the net on a larger screen so the hdmi matrix allows us the best of both worlds... the only upgrade i need now is a box that restricts reality tv viewing
x5x3 said:
the projector I saw was a SONY BRAVIA VPL-VW80 SXRD - thoughts anyone?
That's a good model (I thought it was the cheaper VWL10 you were viewing as you said it was under £2k....the '80 is much more than £2k IIRC). If you are looking at that kind of spend, you need to be demoing the JVC HD750 and Infocus IN83 at least. There are plenty of owner's threads over on either AVForums and the American AVSForum. They can get a little anal about PJs on both these forums, but if you're looking for information and reviews it's better than the so called AV magazines.OldSkoolRS said:
x5x3 said:
the projector I saw was a SONY BRAVIA VPL-VW80 SXRD - thoughts anyone?
That's a good model (I thought it was the cheaper VWL10 you were viewing as you said it was under £2k....the '80 is much more than £2k IIRC). If you are looking at that kind of spend, you need to be demoing the JVC HD750 and Infocus IN83 at least. There are plenty of owner's threads over on either AVForums and the American AVSForum. They can get a little anal about PJs on both these forums, but if you're looking for information and reviews it's better than the so called AV magazines.Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff