High spec Cinema setup suggestions needed...
Discussion
Im looking to build a cinema setup for home, am looking for a 21:9 electric screen (i think), maybe klipsch speakers or of equivalent quality and a top spec HD projector. Have a decent amp and dont want speakers to be too 'in your face'. Budget is around 10k.
Any help/suggestions welcome...
Thanks Rob
Any help/suggestions welcome...
Thanks Rob
Best suggestion is to find a really good dealer who can properly demonstrate your options. I'm really happy with my Beamax tab tensioned 2.35:1 (22:9) screen, but it might not suit your room conditions as the colour of the walls can make a big difference to picture quality. Using a Matt White screen in a light coloured room would create a really washed out image for example, so you have to consider the whole package. Equally I'm very happy with my JVC HD350 projector (now discontinued), but I've added an external video processor (secondhand) and shortly an external CMS device to correct the colours, so it's been a learning curve for me. In hindsight buying the HD750 with all the CMS controls built in would have been a better option, so be careful of buying based on price rather than value.
Best of luck with the project as for that budget you should get something pretty worthwhile.
Though you might find you get sucked into the hobby and that £10K budget starts to get stretched. 
Best of luck with the project as for that budget you should get something pretty worthwhile.
Though you might find you get sucked into the hobby and that £10K budget starts to get stretched. Totally agree, you need to find a good dealer- they love selling projecter kit from my experience. We had the same budget of 10k and blew it but I did alot of research just recently and as mentioned the JVC HD350 (now the 550?) and the Epsom TW5800 are the best on the market. We tried the HD750 aswell (now the 990) and went for the Epsom because although the colours were richer the £2.5k difference was warrented and actually the psom looked more natural.
What amp have you got because that makes a differnce to the speaker suggestions?
We auditioned B&W and Monitor Audio on walls as well as M&K and on the Arcam avr600 we preferred the Monitor Audio gold on walls. 2 small subs were recommened (5.2) and again it was clear that some are better than others. The B&W PV1 was good until we heard a Sunfire hrs8 and then we heard 2x M&K SB6 subs and those were the winners. Very smooth yet deep bass and palyed musical very well too. Impresive.
Our demo was on a 16:9 Stewart electric/tab tensioned. You should definitely go for Electric/tensioned. The screen rolls down when triggered by turning the amp/projector on, which is cool and the screen doesnt crease of move around as its weighted. In the end we too went went with Beamax. I think to get a 21:9 picture you need an anamorphic lense which was very expensive, OR you can set the 16:9 screen stop early giving you 21:9 but you need to set the projecting image up perfectly. Not sure how effective this is- bit of an after thought.
You need to think about where you center speaker is going to go as well. There are acousticly transparent screens so you can mount front three speakers in line which certainly made the experience more cinematic and discrete plus the voices are really locked to the image.
We use a PS3 as our blu ray player and I really couldn't be happier, even after audiotioning much more expensive players. IME spend money on projector/screen/speakers/amp/source in that order. Blu rays players are changing so quickly you'll almost always be behind.
What amp have you got because that makes a differnce to the speaker suggestions?
We auditioned B&W and Monitor Audio on walls as well as M&K and on the Arcam avr600 we preferred the Monitor Audio gold on walls. 2 small subs were recommened (5.2) and again it was clear that some are better than others. The B&W PV1 was good until we heard a Sunfire hrs8 and then we heard 2x M&K SB6 subs and those were the winners. Very smooth yet deep bass and palyed musical very well too. Impresive.
Our demo was on a 16:9 Stewart electric/tab tensioned. You should definitely go for Electric/tensioned. The screen rolls down when triggered by turning the amp/projector on, which is cool and the screen doesnt crease of move around as its weighted. In the end we too went went with Beamax. I think to get a 21:9 picture you need an anamorphic lense which was very expensive, OR you can set the 16:9 screen stop early giving you 21:9 but you need to set the projecting image up perfectly. Not sure how effective this is- bit of an after thought.
You need to think about where you center speaker is going to go as well. There are acousticly transparent screens so you can mount front three speakers in line which certainly made the experience more cinematic and discrete plus the voices are really locked to the image.
We use a PS3 as our blu ray player and I really couldn't be happier, even after audiotioning much more expensive players. IME spend money on projector/screen/speakers/amp/source in that order. Blu rays players are changing so quickly you'll almost always be behind.
Just to add that you can use a 2.35:1 screen without an anamorphic lens as I did for the first two years, but it can be a faff adjusting the zoom and shift according to film content. I recently bought a secondhand Isco II lens which was around 1/3 of the new price, so I'm happy now and can change ARs at the touch of a button (though I mostly seem to watch 2.35:1 BluRays hence my choice of screen).
An option for using a 2.35:1 screen without lens is the Panasonic AE4000 which can be setup to zoom automatically or at least have presets for different ARs (which also saves the focus, shift settings too). You may even pick up an end of line AE3000 which does have the lens zoom memory (though not the automatic option), however I sold my AE3000 to buy my HD350 as the dark scene performance wasn't satisfying me and so many films seem to be shot with dark scenes. As always a good dealer and demo will help your search: My dealer brought the HD350 to my house so I could really see if it was worth me selling the AE3000, plus he brought the HD750 to tempt me, but I didn't feel it was worth the extra £2k at the time (wish I had got it now though as I've improved my room to reduce reflections back to the screen, so I'd be able to appreciate the better contrast now).
I'd definately agree with the BluRay comments above (unless you have 1,000s of DVDs) as even a modest Sony BDP-S350 will give a marvelous image. My '350 was £129 when I bought it, the current BDP-S360 is now £80 at Richer Sounds, but if you already have a PS3, just use that. If you do have alot of DVDs still, then it might be worth looking for a player that does a better job of upscaling them, though your projector may well do a great job too depending on what you choose.
An option for using a 2.35:1 screen without lens is the Panasonic AE4000 which can be setup to zoom automatically or at least have presets for different ARs (which also saves the focus, shift settings too). You may even pick up an end of line AE3000 which does have the lens zoom memory (though not the automatic option), however I sold my AE3000 to buy my HD350 as the dark scene performance wasn't satisfying me and so many films seem to be shot with dark scenes. As always a good dealer and demo will help your search: My dealer brought the HD350 to my house so I could really see if it was worth me selling the AE3000, plus he brought the HD750 to tempt me, but I didn't feel it was worth the extra £2k at the time (wish I had got it now though as I've improved my room to reduce reflections back to the screen, so I'd be able to appreciate the better contrast now).
I'd definately agree with the BluRay comments above (unless you have 1,000s of DVDs) as even a modest Sony BDP-S350 will give a marvelous image. My '350 was £129 when I bought it, the current BDP-S360 is now £80 at Richer Sounds, but if you already have a PS3, just use that. If you do have alot of DVDs still, then it might be worth looking for a player that does a better job of upscaling them, though your projector may well do a great job too depending on what you choose.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Tuesday 29th December 15:34
bananarob said:
Im looking to build a cinema setup for home, am looking for a 21:9 electric screen (i think), maybe klipsch speakers or of equivalent quality and a top spec HD projector. Have a decent amp and dont want speakers to be too 'in your face'. Budget is around 10k.
Any help/suggestions welcome...
Thanks Rob
Give "Plotloss" a shout. I can wholeheartedly recommend him, he really knows his stuff and is full of ideas about how to get the best out of your setup. He does an installation service too.Any help/suggestions welcome...
Thanks Rob
www.intelligent-living.co.uk
All good input, my amp which i bought about a year ago is a Pioneer vsx-lx70. I couldnt quite justify the 90 at the time. Have been quite pleased with it but the speakers have been letting it down. The blu ray input is from a Pioneer LX71 bluray player, although i also have a PS3 and a Sony media centre, both of which have bluray capabilities. I have already had the JVC 350 recommened but wonder if its worth going up to the 550 or even higher.
As far as speakers go, have thought about the klipsch xf-48 floorstanders for front with the ws24s for rear and wc24 for centre....hopefully the amp will stand up here.
As far as speakers go, have thought about the klipsch xf-48 floorstanders for front with the ws24s for rear and wc24 for centre....hopefully the amp will stand up here.
You probably won't find a new HD350 anywhere now, but the HD550 is quite a price jump for very little difference IMHO (same contrast ratio, supposed to be slightly sharper/better ANSI contrast, but nothing confirmed as yet). If you can find a HD350 new, then save the £1,500 or more and use it elsewhere on the system. I hadn't realised that you already have an amp and BluRay player, so you're well on the way. If your proposed Klipsh speakers need more power than your current amp, then there is the option of adding a separate power amp which is what I do: I have a 3 channel Arcam P90 running just the front three speakers and the Denon receiver then only has to power the four surround speakers. The P90 cost me about £350 secondhand on AVForums.
As the other poster said though, give Plotless a shout as he seems to be well thought of on here (and not far from me as it turns out, so shame I'm all setup now).
As the other poster said though, give Plotless a shout as he seems to be well thought of on here (and not far from me as it turns out, so shame I'm all setup now).
Always nice to be recommended 
Thanks chaps.
Rob, I see you're in Chelthenham, an area we cover.
Personally I'd forget a 'scope setup at the price point, if you were thinking of using a shifter then yes but that will somewhat obliterate the budget.
Around your budget we'd recommend the big Epson, an M&K 150 or 950 system and depending on the application either a tab tensioned electric or fixed screen.
Drop me a line if you'd like to arrange a demonstration.
Thanks chaps.Rob, I see you're in Chelthenham, an area we cover.
Personally I'd forget a 'scope setup at the price point, if you were thinking of using a shifter then yes but that will somewhat obliterate the budget.
Around your budget we'd recommend the big Epson, an M&K 150 or 950 system and depending on the application either a tab tensioned electric or fixed screen.
Drop me a line if you'd like to arrange a demonstration.
The TW-5800. The performance is mindbending at the price point.
There are also a new line incoming, should have visibility of them within the next 4 weeks as its the big pan european trade show in our industry at the end of Jan.
Though product changeovers do generally happen in the Summer.
There are also a new line incoming, should have visibility of them within the next 4 weeks as its the big pan european trade show in our industry at the end of Jan.
Though product changeovers do generally happen in the Summer.
The new line has hit the states but its not entirely clear what they bring to the table.
I think the new flagship will be very similar in performance to the 5800 but with a lens shifter option and possibly motion processing trickery, better contrast ratios and probably ISF compliance for pro calibration but it won't be an enormous difference.
One of the killer features is the warranty with the Epson, even includes the lamp.
I think the new flagship will be very similar in performance to the 5800 but with a lens shifter option and possibly motion processing trickery, better contrast ratios and probably ISF compliance for pro calibration but it won't be an enormous difference.
One of the killer features is the warranty with the Epson, even includes the lamp.
OldSkoolRS said:
Plotless, I'm confused about this term 'lens shifter' that I've seen both you and Deristrictor mention. Is this another term for a lens memory (like the Panasonic AE3000/4000) or more a lens shift as in it moves the image up and down remotely?
It's a second scope lens which is shifted into place electrically for scope content.The chip in a projector is 1.78 format, the 2.35 image is compressed anamorphically into the 1.77 dimension and the lens being specifically milled to expand the edges of the 2.35 image which is squashed onto the 1.77 chip. If you see what I mean.
So is the 5500 the replacement to the 5800 and the 5000?? I thought the 5000 had been out a while.
Also anyone know if you can buy and electric telescopic projector ceiling mount? I have found many that can be fixed in place but I want one that can retract back up to the ceiling after use. It would need to extend down about a 75cm, maybe a metre. I dont want a ceiling box and mounting in the ceiling is probably going to be a little tough to achieve (although possible, not to mention expensive).
Really looking forward to getting this project off the ground!
Also anyone know if you can buy and electric telescopic projector ceiling mount? I have found many that can be fixed in place but I want one that can retract back up to the ceiling after use. It would need to extend down about a 75cm, maybe a metre. I dont want a ceiling box and mounting in the ceiling is probably going to be a little tough to achieve (although possible, not to mention expensive).
Really looking forward to getting this project off the ground!
Thanks Plotless, I have an Isco Lens myself (bought secondhand I might add before anyone thinks I'm willy waving), so I understand the use of an anamorphic lens per se, just the term 'lens shifter' threw me as it could have had a few meanings.
Does this mean that the Epsom is going to be supplied with an anamorphic lens or just that it has the V-Stretch mode and 12 volt trigger to enable it? If it's the later, then I wouldn't say the new model is anything particularly special in this regard as many other makes allow the possibility of adding a lens afterwards. It's just that in the case of a budget set up the lens might cost more than the projector, so it's not an option that many choose, as the temptation is always to spend the extra on a better projector in the first place rather than cheaper projector plus the lens.
It's a shame that more companies don't add the zoom feature that the Panasonic AE3000 & AE4000 have as it does at least allow an installer to set up for 16:9 and 2.35:1 and leave the customer with a simple to use system. I can fully understand an installer not wanting to setup a 'zoom' 2.35:1 setup, it means a bit of effort by the user to adjust the zoom, shift and focus for different ARs and would cause far more support issues than a straight 16:9 CIW setup. Really it's an enthusiast's arrangement as a stepping stone to eventually getting an anamorphic lens, rather than a 'finished' setup. However I love that moment just after the trailers finish and the main (2.35:1) feature starts and I hit the button on the remote and the image expands out to fill the full 2.35:1 screen...
Does this mean that the Epsom is going to be supplied with an anamorphic lens or just that it has the V-Stretch mode and 12 volt trigger to enable it? If it's the later, then I wouldn't say the new model is anything particularly special in this regard as many other makes allow the possibility of adding a lens afterwards. It's just that in the case of a budget set up the lens might cost more than the projector, so it's not an option that many choose, as the temptation is always to spend the extra on a better projector in the first place rather than cheaper projector plus the lens.
It's a shame that more companies don't add the zoom feature that the Panasonic AE3000 & AE4000 have as it does at least allow an installer to set up for 16:9 and 2.35:1 and leave the customer with a simple to use system. I can fully understand an installer not wanting to setup a 'zoom' 2.35:1 setup, it means a bit of effort by the user to adjust the zoom, shift and focus for different ARs and would cause far more support issues than a straight 16:9 CIW setup. Really it's an enthusiast's arrangement as a stepping stone to eventually getting an anamorphic lens, rather than a 'finished' setup. However I love that moment just after the trailers finish and the main (2.35:1) feature starts and I hit the button on the remote and the image expands out to fill the full 2.35:1 screen...
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Thursday 31st December 11:47
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