I forgot how amazing a well mastered CD sounds!!!

[beanbag]

Since I built my HTPC, I put my Roksan Attessa CD player away to gather dust on top of my cupboard and my ears became quite used to the MP3 audio from my system. It was always 320Kbps but it's still MP3.

However this Christmas I purchased a pair of B&W 684's and decided to bring the Roksan out of retirement.........I can't believe I put it away in the first place!!!!

Music sounds once again incredible and the detail is astonishing!

The same music encoded in MP3 sounds muffled, flat and without any character, even at 320kbps.

Listening to my Sultans of Swing album by Dire Straits was a revelation. Close your eyes and it's like they are playing in front of you.

There is simply no comparison! The worst thing is I've spent a small fortune buying MP3 albums on iTunes store and now I feel cheated. It's like I've only bought half the music!

I'm definitely moving to CD's again and time to re-encode all my MP3's to a lossless format. I guess for this, ALAC is my only option since I use an iPhone to listen to music.

Back to listening to more CD's!

[OldSkoolRS]

There's a small group of us who are rediscovering CDs. My reason isn't quite the same...I'd been playing my CDs through my BluRay player via HDMI, but finding I'd turn it off after a short while. Digging out an old NAD C540 and connecting via the analogues reminded me how good CD can sound and it's hard to stop listening and get on with other stuff.

I just changed my AV amp for an older, but higher end model specifically for it's stereo music qualities. Sometimes having all the badges on something doesn't guarentee a good result (like those '16v' badges that are stuck on some rubbish cars these days )

[cjs]

Since my very nice Denon died I have been using my DVD player for CDs, don't listen much any more because it sound so bad. I think I will get my Denon repaired, can't listen to MP3s...yuk!

[beanbag]

Actually, I'm running my CD's through my AV amp, but with all filters and sound fiddling nonsense turned off.

Used to have an Arcam Alpha 7R but sold that for a bargain €50 to a friend.

With regards to analogue sound; It's all down to the DAC in your CD transport. I got mine upgraded during the last service as the transport broke during the removals to Austria when I moved out here.

Although I've got a coax digital out on the Roksan, I decided against using it and instead using the analogue outputs. (Less fiddling by the amp). I've connected them up using a pair of QED Qunex Spiral interconnects and it sounds much better than with the digital output. Much warmer with a lot more detail.

[OldSkoolRS]

In the meantime, try using the coax output for the DVD player and your amp to decode using stereo direct (or whatever setting gives the least extra circuitry. My NAD has just about died, so I'm reduced to using the BluRay player via coax into my Arcam processor...it's much more listenable (if that's even a word) doing this (until I can find a decent used Arcam CD player).

[Maxf]

Done pretty much the same here...

I had been using itunes/mp3s and my CDs were consigned to the forgotten boxes of junk. Then I bought a chair (stick with me) which I'd always wanted. What could I do in my chair I though? Hmmm... lets look for some nice headphones.

A few weeks later I have some good quality headphones, headphone amp and a naim CD player. I'm going further and building a new proper hi-fi now, and looking at a custom headphone rig as well.

The chair hasn't even been delivered yet.

[beanbag]

Maxf said:

Done pretty much the same here...

I had been using itunes/mp3s and my CDs were consigned to the forgotten boxes of junk. Then I bought a chair (stick with me) which I'd always wanted. What could I do in my chair I though? Hmmm... lets look for some nice headphones.

A few weeks later I have some good quality headphones, headphone amp and a naim CD player. I'm going further and building a new proper hi-fi now, and looking at a custom headphone rig as well.

The chair hasn't even been delivered yet.

Damn you!!!! That sounds like a cracking idea and now I'm looking at chairs!!!!

This looks quite cool...

[Maxf]

beanbag said:

Damn you!!!! That sounds like a cracking idea and now I'm looking at chairs!!!!

This looks quite cool...

I like those!

I went for one of these:

[SJobson]

If the 320kbps MP3 sounds *that* different to the CD, it's going to be down to the playback hardware differences more than the format differences, I think.

Playing a CD or a FLAC file or a reasonable bitrate MP3 file through my stereo sounds pretty much the same - because all are fed into the same DAC. Relying on the DAC in your iPhone or in a PC sounds like the limiting factor.

[Pupp]

Right, now take the next quantum leap and get yourself some vinyl and a decent record player

[beanbag]

SJobson said:

If the 320kbps MP3 sounds *that* different to the CD, it's going to be down to the playback hardware differences more than the format differences, I think.

Playing a CD or a FLAC file or a reasonable bitrate MP3 file through my stereo sounds pretty much the same - because all are fed into the same DAC. Relying on the DAC in your iPhone or in a PC sounds like the limiting factor.

With all due respect, I don't believe you know what you are talking about if this is what you truly think, or have unfortunately never had the opportunity to listen to audio on a high-end audio system.

However, my CDs don't play through my PC but on my Roksan CD transport and audio from my PC is fed to my AV amp through an optical lead.

The difference between the MP3 and CD was so massive, even my wife who has no interest in hifi noticed the difference commenting how clear the sound was (CD player).

I encourage you to take your 320kbps audio on your iPhone to a good HiFi store and ask for a comparison to a well mastered CD. The difference will astonish you I guarantee.

[OldSkoolRS]

Pupp said:

Right, now take the next quantum leap and get yourself some vinyl and a decent record player

Funny you should say that, I noticed a MM/MC option input on the back of my AV9 and wondered if I might want to relisten to some of our old LPs again. Trouble is most of them aren't my taste (the OH's collection) and the deck I've got is only an old Toshiba one my Dad gave me years ago from his '80s 'stack system. Might dig it out for a try though.

[beanbag]

Pupp said:

Right, now take the next quantum leap and get yourself some vinyl and a decent record player

I used to have a cracking deck. A Manticore Mantra with a Goldring cartridge however I sold it on eBay for €450.



In fact, when I sold it I didn't realise the cartridge was worth €2,500 when new!!! Since it was over 15 years old, it was worthless, but it was a nice thought and still sounded amazing when I had it!

Edited by beanbag on Wednesday 3rd February 21:35

[SJobson]

beanbag said:

SJobson said:

If the 320kbps MP3 sounds *that* different to the CD, it's going to be down to the playback hardware differences more than the format differences, I think.

Playing a CD or a FLAC file or a reasonable bitrate MP3 file through my stereo sounds pretty much the same - because all are fed into the same DAC. Relying on the DAC in your iPhone or in a PC sounds like the limiting factor.

With all due respect, I don't believe you know what you are talking about if this is what you truly think, or have unfortunately never had the opportunity to listen to audio on a high-end audio system.

However, my CDs don't play through my PC but on my Roksan CD transport and audio from my PC is fed to my AV amp through an optical lead.

The difference between the MP3 and CD was so massive, even my wife who has no interest in hifi noticed the difference commenting how clear the sound was (CD player).

I encourage you to take your 320kbps audio on your iPhone to a good HiFi store and ask for a comparison to a well mastered CD. The difference will astonish you I guarantee.

With all due respect, my arse. I have a very fine stereo system. My point is that your Roksan CD player is also very fine, while whatever is doing the D/A conversion for your computer music files is not up to the same standard. After all, AV amps are well known for being an audiophile choice of DAC

Of course they'll sound different, they're taking totally different paths from the digital source material to the analogue signal. Blame it on the MP3 format if you like, but don't be too disappointed when lossless files sound just as bad.

Oh, where are you getting these well-mastered CDs, by the way? As far as I am aware, the downloads available from iTunes are from the same masters as the CD, so it's not the mastering at fault either. And it's fairly well known that most CDs are not well mastered currently, with plenty of clipping to make them sound lounder and more initially impressive.

Edited by SJobson on Wednesday 3rd February 21:38

[beanbag]

Funnily enough, I found my old Manticore Mantra being sold on a HiFi forum!!!

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-39-13599.html

[Plotloss]

If you use the analogues you're using the DAC in the player.

If you use the digital out you're using the DAC in the amp.

So it's not just source material that's key.

[beanbag]

SJobson said:

beanbag said:

SJobson said:

If the 320kbps MP3 sounds *that* different to the CD, it's going to be down to the playback hardware differences more than the format differences, I think.

Playing a CD or a FLAC file or a reasonable bitrate MP3 file through my stereo sounds pretty much the same - because all are fed into the same DAC. Relying on the DAC in your iPhone or in a PC sounds like the limiting factor.

With all due respect, I don't believe you know what you are talking about if this is what you truly think, or have unfortunately never had the opportunity to listen to audio on a high-end audio system.

However, my CDs don't play through my PC but on my Roksan CD transport and audio from my PC is fed to my AV amp through an optical lead.

The difference between the MP3 and CD was so massive, even my wife who has no interest in hifi noticed the difference commenting how clear the sound was (CD player).

I encourage you to take your 320kbps audio on your iPhone to a good HiFi store and ask for a comparison to a well mastered CD. The difference will astonish you I guarantee.

With all due respect, my arse. I have a very fine stereo system. My point is that your Roksan CD player is also very fine, while whatever is doing the D/A conversion for your computer music files is not up to the same standard. After all, AV amps are well known for being an audiophile choice of DAC

Of course they'll sound different, they're taking totally different paths from the digital source material to the analogue signal. Blame it on the MP3 format if you like, but don't be too disappointed when lossless files sound just as bad.

Oh, where are you getting these well-mastered CDs, by the way? As far as I am aware, the downloads available from iTunes are from the same masters as the CD, so it's not the mastering at fault either. And it's fairly well known that most CDs are not well mastered currently, with plenty of clipping to make them sound lounder and more initially impressive.

Edited by SJobson on Wednesday 3rd February 21:38

Top end amps are frequently used by audiophiles and can be excellent. However, I can make it simple for you. iPods "are" the audiophile choice to transporting music. I know of many audiophiles encoding CD's in lossless format on their iPods so they can take it about. This means the audio is decoded on the on-board DAC. (I'm talking a 3rd generation iPod).

Both the CD Player and iPod are connected to the analogue photo inputs and I can unequivocally tell you there is a significant difference with 320kbps audio. Just for reference; Before you tell me it's my cables, I'm using a QED J2P cable to connect my iPod to my amp so they are very good quality.

I'm telling you what I hear. There is a difference.

If you can't tell the difference then I would say it's more to do with your hearing. Especially if you have a good hifi.

And with regards to your sarcastic comments on my CD's. I get them from B&W Society of Sound in ALAC format and I burn them onto CD-R's at maximum 2x.

I also recommend you buy Dire Straits - Sultan of Swing. It's a superbly mastered CD, most audiophiles will agree....

Anyhow. If you don't agree, I don't particularly care. It's just my opinion of course.

Edited by beanbag on Wednesday 3rd February 22:02

[Mr_Yogi]

Sorry, I think you are a bit confussed, first off...

beanbag said:

...
I'm definitely moving to CD's again and time to re-encode all my MP3's to a lossless format. I guess for this, ALAC is my only option since I use an iPhone to listen to music.

What is the point in that? The MP3's have already lost the information, converting them back to a lossless format will do sod all, appart from take up more space. Unless you mean re-ripping your CD's that you've already ripped to MP3's, as opposed to MP3's bought from iTunes.

beanbag said:

SJobson said:

beanbag said:

SJobson said:

If the 320kbps MP3 sounds *that* different to the CD, it's going to be down to the playback hardware differences more than the format differences, I think.

Playing a CD or a FLAC file or a reasonable bitrate MP3 file through my stereo sounds pretty much the same - because all are fed into the same DAC. Relying on the DAC in your iPhone or in a PC sounds like the limiting factor.

With all due respect, I don't believe you know what you are talking about if this is what you truly think, or have unfortunately never had the opportunity to listen to audio on a high-end audio system.

However, my CDs don't play through my PC but on my Roksan CD transport and audio from my PC is fed to my AV amp through an optical lead.

The difference between the MP3 and CD was so massive, even my wife who has no interest in hifi noticed the difference commenting how clear the sound was (CD player).

I encourage you to take your 320kbps audio on your iPhone to a good HiFi store and ask for a comparison to a well mastered CD. The difference will astonish you I guarantee.

With all due respect, my arse. I have a very fine stereo system. My point is that your Roksan CD player is also very fine, while whatever is doing the D/A conversion for your computer music files is not up to the same standard. After all, AV amps are well known for being an audiophile choice of DAC

Of course they'll sound different, they're taking totally different paths from the digital source material to the analogue signal. Blame it on the MP3 format if you like, but don't be too disappointed when lossless files sound just as bad.

Oh, where are you getting these well-mastered CDs, by the way? As far as I am aware, the downloads available from iTunes are from the same masters as the CD, so it's not the mastering at fault either. And it's fairly well known that most CDs are not well mastered currently, with plenty of clipping to make them sound lounder and more initially impressive.

Edited by SJobson on Wednesday 3rd February 21:38

Top end amps are frequently used by audiophiles and can be excellent. However, I can make it simple for you. iPods "are" the audiophile choice to transporting music. I know of many audiophiles encoding CD's in lossless format on their iPods so they can take it about. This means the audio is decoded on the on-board DAC. (I'm talking a 3rd generation iPod).

Both the CD Player and iPod are connected to the analogue photo inputs and I can unequivocally tell you there is a significant difference with 320kbps audio. Just for reference; Before you tell me it's my cables, I'm using a QED J2P cable to connect my iPod to my amp so they are very good quality.

I'm telling you what I hear. There is a difference.

If you can't tell the difference then I would say it's more to do with your hearing. Especially if you have a good hifi.

And with regards to your sarcastic comments on my CD's. I get them from B&W Society of Sound in ALAC format and I burn them onto CD-R's at maximum 2x.

I also recommend you buy Dire Straits - Sultan of Swing. It's a superbly mastered CD, most audiophiles will agree....

Anyhow. If you don't agree, I don't particularly care. It's just my opinion of course.

What SJobson was pointing out, is that your Raksan CD player is going to have a much better DAC than the one in an iPhone, making your comparisson totally void. Even if you loaded your iPone with a lossless rip from a CD, the Roksan should sound considerably better. If you really want to check, rip a track to your computer in both wav (PCM) format and 320bit high quality MP3, then convert the MP3 to wav format and burn both tracks to an audio CD. Play that CD in your Roksan and see if you can tell the difference between the two tracks. That way the only variable in the test is the encoding of the track.

You have a CD player BTW not a CD transport, when talking about boxes a CD transport is the one that spins the disc but only has digital output, thus requiring an off board DAC.

[beanbag]

First point - Yes, I meant ripping my CD music again. I know changing my MP3's to ALAC won't make a shred of difference.

Second point - I see what you are saying and will certainly give it a go. However, I suppose I could technically burn some of the 320kbps MP3's to CD and play them through the Roksan for a proper test.

Third point - Yup, you are absolutely right about the transport / CD player unit. But technically you can still call it a transport (if you choose to use the digital output). But I agree with what you say.

Nevertheless, I will try out the MP3 test.....should be interesting....

[Hoover.]

all to complicated me..... cd in player and press play, or drop needle on vinyl... ty easy, no hours spent transfering