Did the iPOD kill HiFi?
Discussion
Dave^ said:
Just to go off on a bit of a tangent... What "bitrate" (or equiv.) are/were cassettes? I know they were analogue as opposed to digital, but, amuse me...
Technically they had an effectively infinite bitrate.At top studios, high end projects are still recorded onto 2 inch 24 track tape. It simply has a higher resolution than digital.
The problem with home cassettes was limited by the variability of the tapes themselves, wear and stretching on the tape and the fact that it took a lot of technology to get a great sound at the end.
CD simply eradicated all of those problems.
Blue Meanie said:
Dracoro said:
That is true for ripping CDs, however buying from the store is, albeit AAC, 256 which is more than good enough most the time but still not lossless.
No, it isn't... However, if you are an audiophile, you buy the CD, and rip to lossless... The option is there for all users, quite frankly . The options for consumers nowadays is unbelievable. You have convenience, good size, and ability to have things exactly how you want them. It really is a non-issue.Because the majority of listeners are ripping to sub 320kbs anyway, why 'waste' money on expensive epic audiophile satisfying production?
Blue Meanie said:
Dracoro said:
That is true for ripping CDs, however buying from the store is, albeit AAC, 256 which is more than good enough most the time but still not lossless.
No, it isn't... However, if you are an audiophile, you buy the CD, and rip to lossless... The option is there for all users, quite frankly . The options for consumers nowadays is unbelievable. You have convenience, good size, and ability to have things exactly how you want them. It really is a non-issue.Anyway, as I've said, mp3/aac at good bitrate is good enough for portable media. It's music of convenience. Of course, one uses and wants the proper CD for home stereo use, the main issue there is the loudness war.
The reason why MP3 took off simply because it made transmission over the net feasible with the bandwidth at the time, and feasible for the portable storage of the time.
We already have a network fast enough for most users to download at full CD quality.
The issue is that MP3 or compressed formats have been the norm for a long enough time for:
1) Younger groups downloading music for free
2) The 'sound' of the music produced fitting the compressed format.
It is going to take a while to get away from that, even if it is possible.
For example, there would be no point whatsoever taking a recent mix and releasing a 24 bit version. All that does is increase the dynamic range, and at the moment mixes don't even get close to using the 16 bit range of CD because they are so compressed.
However, you can't change the source of music until the format is 'out there' and usable.
There is space for a 24bit 96kHz format and that is a decent step up from CD and could rejuvenate that end of the market. It would also be a marketing tool for an 'iPod HD' or similar. Indeed in 5 years time, storage capacity is increasing so fast that files that size just won't seem large at all.
For example, a 1TB iPod could hold 600 albums of 24/96 music.
We already have a network fast enough for most users to download at full CD quality.
The issue is that MP3 or compressed formats have been the norm for a long enough time for:
1) Younger groups downloading music for free
2) The 'sound' of the music produced fitting the compressed format.
It is going to take a while to get away from that, even if it is possible.
For example, there would be no point whatsoever taking a recent mix and releasing a 24 bit version. All that does is increase the dynamic range, and at the moment mixes don't even get close to using the 16 bit range of CD because they are so compressed.
However, you can't change the source of music until the format is 'out there' and usable.
There is space for a 24bit 96kHz format and that is a decent step up from CD and could rejuvenate that end of the market. It would also be a marketing tool for an 'iPod HD' or similar. Indeed in 5 years time, storage capacity is increasing so fast that files that size just won't seem large at all.
For example, a 1TB iPod could hold 600 albums of 24/96 music.
As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) doesn't a cd have potentially more dynamic range than tape/vinyl?
Tape being around Vinyl being c60/70 dB, master tapes being c80dB and CDs capable of c90dB.
The issue, as I read it, is that music producers/record companies do not use the potential range when making CDs.
Tape being around Vinyl being c60/70 dB, master tapes being c80dB and CDs capable of c90dB.
The issue, as I read it, is that music producers/record companies do not use the potential range when making CDs.
Shaid GTB said:
Simple answer....
NO
My overpriced ipod stops working every other year so i then need to buy anew one
My 15 year old Yamaha separates system has soldiered on. The only reason i don't use it no more is due to having an elderly neighbour.
Maybe you're doing something wrong with it? I know many people who have had theirs for years without issue.NO
My overpriced ipod stops working every other year so i then need to buy anew one
My 15 year old Yamaha separates system has soldiered on. The only reason i don't use it no more is due to having an elderly neighbour.
I suppose selling singles for 99p is the way the country is going. Very few people care about quality any more, the teenybopper generation would rather but a track for a quid (or nobble it for free) to play through a tiny speaker on the back of their phone. Kids used to save their pocket money for weeks in anticipation of their favourite band's next album coming out and listen to it for months on end, now the want-it-all-now generation can cherry pick their favourites crappy mass market generic pop songs from itunes in a crappy format, to play on a crappy player, throw it away and forget it next week.
It's the same through modern culture, everything is sold on the cheap and in huge numbers. McDonalds make vast numbers of burgers and have to sell huge quantities of them to make the money. Lager is mass manufactured chemical based bogwater to replace a pint of proper ale, car parts are designed to be replaceable and not fixable, Apple are great at dumbing things down for the mass market which is why the ipod is so popular. People no longer want quality, they want to chuck money at buying into an image and the market has changed.
It's the same through modern culture, everything is sold on the cheap and in huge numbers. McDonalds make vast numbers of burgers and have to sell huge quantities of them to make the money. Lager is mass manufactured chemical based bogwater to replace a pint of proper ale, car parts are designed to be replaceable and not fixable, Apple are great at dumbing things down for the mass market which is why the ipod is so popular. People no longer want quality, they want to chuck money at buying into an image and the market has changed.
Fortunately my dad has always been an utter hi-fi nut and he has passed the gene on to me it seems. And boy am i glad! I absolutley hate the fact that any portable music device is now automatically given the name ipod
! I hate this! I have a cowon D2 and it is full of Q9 and Q10 oggs. When im walking or in a public place i use my sennhieser CX500's but when still and not in public i use my grado SR125i's (these are truly excellent by the way). It is a lot more difficult to get a really good quality CD nowadays though. My dad only really listens to SACD's and DVDA's but the occasional CD does sneek in too. Some companies like naim have started to release music to buy on thier website to download as a WAV file that is 24bit too, which is nice to see.
! I hate this! I have a cowon D2 and it is full of Q9 and Q10 oggs. When im walking or in a public place i use my sennhieser CX500's but when still and not in public i use my grado SR125i's (these are truly excellent by the way). It is a lot more difficult to get a really good quality CD nowadays though. My dad only really listens to SACD's and DVDA's but the occasional CD does sneek in too. Some companies like naim have started to release music to buy on thier website to download as a WAV file that is 24bit too, which is nice to see.croyde said:
Considering kids these days are happy to listen to music out of the crappy little speaker on a mobile phone, whilst winding me up, it's no wonder the record companies are no longer interested in decent quality sound media.
That is quite right.When recording and record companies started they were 'brands' which stood for a level of quality of recording. Famously for example, the 'Decca' record label stood for the best quality recordings (arguably) in the world at the time, orchestral recordings at Abbey Road.
This branding was still there through the 60's, 70's and still in the 80's the 'brand' still stood for an ethos or type of music and that they were willing to invest in new or current artists for example, Virgin.
If you ask a kid today which label their favourite artist is on they would say 'What's a record label!?'
As a young lad, we made tapes for each other, generally these were of s
t quality. If you liked it you bought the original. These days you can make bit perfect copies, and guess what? They sound st! Trouble is years ago we passed on poor copies of the originals. These days the originals are st, if like me you spend the time to reduce the levels and try and decompress at worst they are identical! Oh how i would love to hear a modern band as they should be instead of only listening to pre 1990 at the latest. Listen to ancient 1950's recordings they have range, no bass or treble but the essentials are there. In fact listen much earlier, i remember listening too some early 20th century recording, can't remember the studio, (possibly Linn), playing very early 78s re EQ'd they sounded real.
Often i get the feeling my mid range system is faulty it sounds so bad. Once in a blue moon you play a real recording and you realise why you wasted money on a 'stereo'.
I recently got sent a recording of a local band, unclipped or compressed, (except the compresssion required for sub gigawatt power), and the sound was scary, every instrument clearly defined, was like having a band in the lounge, even the wife was shocked. Rise up and demand real music, recorded properly!
t quality. If you liked it you bought the original. These days you can make bit perfect copies, and guess what? They sound st! Trouble is years ago we passed on poor copies of the originals. These days the originals are st, if like me you spend the time to reduce the levels and try and decompress at worst they are identical! Oh how i would love to hear a modern band as they should be instead of only listening to pre 1990 at the latest. Listen to ancient 1950's recordings they have range, no bass or treble but the essentials are there. In fact listen much earlier, i remember listening too some early 20th century recording, can't remember the studio, (possibly Linn), playing very early 78s re EQ'd they sounded real. Often i get the feeling my mid range system is faulty it sounds so bad. Once in a blue moon you play a real recording and you realise why you wasted money on a 'stereo'.
I recently got sent a recording of a local band, unclipped or compressed, (except the compresssion required for sub gigawatt power), and the sound was scary, every instrument clearly defined, was like having a band in the lounge, even the wife was shocked. Rise up and demand real music, recorded properly!
JustinP1 said:
croyde said:
Considering kids these days are happy to listen to music out of the crappy little speaker on a mobile phone, whilst winding me up, it's no wonder the record companies are no longer interested in decent quality sound media.
That is quite right.When recording and record companies started they were 'brands' which stood for a level of quality of recording. Famously for example, the 'Decca' record label stood for the best quality recordings (arguably) in the world at the time, orchestral recordings at Abbey Road.
This branding was still there through the 60's, 70's and still in the 80's the 'brand' still stood for an ethos or type of music and that they were willing to invest in new or current artists for example, Virgin.
If you ask a kid today which label their favourite artist is on they would say 'What's a record label!?'
Hasn't it always been this way though? The masses go for the poppy, catchy short lived tunes and the proper music fans discuss their favourite labels with an air of snobby superiority over the ignorants who probably spend their time doing something fun outside with friends than fettling a hi-fi system or thumbing through vinyl on their own for hours?
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