7.1 speaker locations and speaker wire
Discussion
I've just been fortunate to pick up a couple of cheap second hand Gallo Micro Tis to take advantage of the 7.1 amp I have.
Looking at set-up guidance on the web for 7.1 is totally unhelpful as it assumes a chap sat in the middle of a big room, which is not realistic.
I currently have the side channels on my 5.1 as per LS and RS on the picture below:
Our sofa however is against the back wall - not in the middle as pictured - so is it still practical to put the left back and right back speakers in that position given they will be inches from my head, and if this is the case, do I need to change the suggested angle so they are pointed at the listener.
The other question is: the speaker cable I put down when we had new carpets is now no longer long enough due a layout shuffle, so I need to extend it - I really don't want to have to pull up the carpets to run new cable - so what's the best way to join speaker cable?
Looking at set-up guidance on the web for 7.1 is totally unhelpful as it assumes a chap sat in the middle of a big room, which is not realistic.
I currently have the side channels on my 5.1 as per LS and RS on the picture below:
Our sofa however is against the back wall - not in the middle as pictured - so is it still practical to put the left back and right back speakers in that position given they will be inches from my head, and if this is the case, do I need to change the suggested angle so they are pointed at the listener.
The other question is: the speaker cable I put down when we had new carpets is now no longer long enough due a layout shuffle, so I need to extend it - I really don't want to have to pull up the carpets to run new cable - so what's the best way to join speaker cable?
Speaker joints basically twist - solder - black tape (or heat shrink if you wanna be posh).
The diagram is lifted from the AV Essentials DVD, it shows the optimim setup, basically get as close to it as possible. TBH I dont see the point in 7.1 in the living room, its hard enough to get 5.1 placed let alone 7.1!
The diagram is lifted from the AV Essentials DVD, it shows the optimim setup, basically get as close to it as possible. TBH I dont see the point in 7.1 in the living room, its hard enough to get 5.1 placed let alone 7.1!
Mr Pig,
IMO your centre rears will ruin the surround steering if they;re 2" from your head - unless you turn them really, really low.
Can you place them very high + point down instead? The centre rear (6/7.1) is normally just matrixed into a "normal" 5.1 track on dvd anyway, so it's more of a fill than a steer.
IMO your centre rears will ruin the surround steering if they;re 2" from your head - unless you turn them really, really low.
Can you place them very high + point down instead? The centre rear (6/7.1) is normally just matrixed into a "normal" 5.1 track on dvd anyway, so it's more of a fill than a steer.
headcase said:
TBH I dont see the point in 7.1 in the living room, its hard enough to get 5.1 placed let alone 7.1!
Having been fiddling around with my system having just ugraded to a BD player, I'm coming to the same conclusion. Apart from anything else, your lounge starts to resemble a Richer Sounds shop!rhinochopig said:
I could wall mount them. However, it seems that it's a bit of a superfluous purchase then really.
My amp, a Yamaha, has a two channels for "presence" speakers (gives you height effects), would I be better of using my new speakers for that instead of the rears then chaps?
Rhino,My amp, a Yamaha, has a two channels for "presence" speakers (gives you height effects), would I be better of using my new speakers for that instead of the rears then chaps?
I'd try with and without. all of this "presence" info is created by Yamaha processors, it is not on the source disk, was never part of the recording for the cinema, and noone else does it. however, for others to do it, they would probably have to pay yamaha money - so the reason is either that it's a royalty thing, or because it's not that good. Only a test will tell the difference - the cynic in me says that Yamaha just wanted to do 9.1 vs everyone else's 7.1 for marketing reasons, but the geek thiunks it could be cool, if the processing is good.
Can you temporarily try the speakers in various positions (either the 6/7th channels or the "presence" channels (8 and 9??) If you can try it, you can decide for yourself what you prefer =)
rhinochopig said:
I've just been fortunate to pick up a couple of cheap second hand Gallo Micro Tis to take advantage of the 7.1 amp I have.
Looking at set-up guidance on the web for 7.1 is totally unhelpful as it assumes a chap sat in the middle of a big room, which is not realistic.
I currently have the side channels on my 5.1 as per LS and RS on the picture below:
Our sofa however is against the back wall - not in the middle as pictured - so is it still practical to put the left back and right back speakers in that position given they will be inches from my head, and if this is the case, do I need to change the suggested angle so they are pointed at the listener.
The other question is: the speaker cable I put down when we had new carpets is now no longer long enough due a layout shuffle, so I need to extend it - I really don't want to have to pull up the carpets to run new cable - so what's the best way to join speaker cable?
I've had my 7.1 up for a while and as an audio engineer I've done plenty of testing. Looking at set-up guidance on the web for 7.1 is totally unhelpful as it assumes a chap sat in the middle of a big room, which is not realistic.
I currently have the side channels on my 5.1 as per LS and RS on the picture below:
Our sofa however is against the back wall - not in the middle as pictured - so is it still practical to put the left back and right back speakers in that position given they will be inches from my head, and if this is the case, do I need to change the suggested angle so they are pointed at the listener.
The other question is: the speaker cable I put down when we had new carpets is now no longer long enough due a layout shuffle, so I need to extend it - I really don't want to have to pull up the carpets to run new cable - so what's the best way to join speaker cable?
With the rear and side 7.1 speakers you don't toe them into the listener, they go flat to the wall. At home, I am about 2ft from the back wall and get a great 7.1 perspective. The key is speaker height. Have them a couple of feet higher than ear level.
In the father-in-law's setup I helped him with speaker position because his sofa is on the back wall, similar to yours. The best setup I found was to have the side speakers as normal, but to have the rears up high to get distance between the speaker and the ear, and also unconventionally, up at almost ceiling height and pointing almost directly down toward the listener. For a setup in the hundreds, rather than thousands of pounds, I was pretty impressed.
The purists won't like it, but it works and is much better than having a speaker inches from your ear which IMHO ruins the sound of the lot.
Justin,
The purists would agree I belive - the reson for the extra height on rears it to remove the "locate-ability" of the speaker. Rears are always fill, so an on axis responce will give the wrong result to our ear. You're totally right re. toe - your experiments perfectly match theory. The "high rears pointing down" is also correct, as it makes the centre rear less locatable.
I do think it's interesting that an audio engineer can come up with the same conclusion as the "experts" that write the THX spec, or the DD / DTS specs just by trialing things and seeing what sounds "right".
After all, it was an audio engineer that finalised the DVD cut =)
The purists would agree I belive - the reson for the extra height on rears it to remove the "locate-ability" of the speaker. Rears are always fill, so an on axis responce will give the wrong result to our ear. You're totally right re. toe - your experiments perfectly match theory. The "high rears pointing down" is also correct, as it makes the centre rear less locatable.
I do think it's interesting that an audio engineer can come up with the same conclusion as the "experts" that write the THX spec, or the DD / DTS specs just by trialing things and seeing what sounds "right".
After all, it was an audio engineer that finalised the DVD cut =)
I got my setup pretty much exactly as per the diagram, so I don't agree it's not possible in a UK living room. Sure my surrounds are high up (tripole M&Ks for the sides and Monopole ones for the rears), but I think this helps create a nice ambience effect. I often get that effect when I think something is making a noise outside the room and I've even got up and checked before now 
There is also an arguement that there isn't much 7.1 content, but I've found quite a large number of BluRays I've rented have been in 7.1. Also, using my processor to matrix the rears from 'normal'5.1 soundtracks can be quite effective even if it's electronic 'guesswork' (but then so is upscaling DVDs and they produce better results this way too).
However, the reason it works well in my setup is that there is a good 6-8 feet behind the sofa to the back wall. I think with a rear wall right behind you, you'd be better off just getting some decent bipole or tripole surrounds and mount them higher up, not jammed tight in the corners. A good 5.1 setup could still be better than a poorly compromised 7.1 arrangement (especially if it's done with cheaper speakers in order to get the extra 2).
There is also an arguement that there isn't much 7.1 content, but I've found quite a large number of BluRays I've rented have been in 7.1. Also, using my processor to matrix the rears from 'normal'5.1 soundtracks can be quite effective even if it's electronic 'guesswork' (but then so is upscaling DVDs and they produce better results this way too).However, the reason it works well in my setup is that there is a good 6-8 feet behind the sofa to the back wall. I think with a rear wall right behind you, you'd be better off just getting some decent bipole or tripole surrounds and mount them higher up, not jammed tight in the corners. A good 5.1 setup could still be better than a poorly compromised 7.1 arrangement (especially if it's done with cheaper speakers in order to get the extra 2).
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Saturday 13th November 11:21
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